Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors - Part 4

[sense and nonsense]

Both of my sisters were raped by a cousin. My parents divorced and I seldom saw his side of the family and only on 1 occasion did I see the cousin. I didn't find out until I was 20 years old because my sisters and my mom did not think I could handle it. And I couldn't.

My sisters lives have been harder than most and I have felt the agony (of course not to their extent) too. I even started to go to counseling when my children were born because I was terrified of someone hurting them. My idea is that if a family member can do this, who can I trust.

Now, my sisters are older than I so I don't feel as though I could have protected them but I do have ''survivor's guilt'' that it didn't happen to me and because of that I feel that the sister that wasn't molested *may have that as well. Your sisters are your first best friends and to this day I protect them as best as I can. For instance, you could say what ever you want to me but as far as my sisters go they are off limits.

I see so much pain hidden behind a beautiful smile when I look at Jana, Joy, and Jinger. Jessa and Jill may have the mindset to move past and toward forgiveness because forgiveness isn't about the person who hurt you, it is about forgiving yourself to not bear this yoke around your neck anymore and let yourself be free to enjoy life. I am deeply hurt for these girls and I am absolutely filled with anger towards the parents, Josh, and ANYONE that defends this act.

Let's take Josh out of the equation and say this heinous act was from another source, we will call him ''Bill".

Bill, comes around the house, is a family friend and the parents find out what Bill did.

1. Would the fundies have #IbelieveinBill?

2. Would there not be a huge outcry that the parents allowed Bill to not only come back into the home, but drive the victims 18 hours from home, and be left in charge of very small children?

I think "Bill" would be castrated in the town square by the fundies but because it's NUMBER ONE PERV JOSH then it's just a ''mistake'' as I have seen written on Youtube. A mistake? I just can't. These people are being worshiped like false idols and it makes me want to puke something up that looks like that cat hair on top of Michelle's head.

To the last part of the post:

I think fundies have to defend Josh because his fall could also mean the fall of ATI and FRC.

These people don't give two shits about him, they just want to convince everybody that Christians are good people and ATI is great, FRC is still a credible organisation.

ETA: I'm so sorry for what happened to your sisters. Nobody should have to go through what your family went through.

[FormerFan]

I have been a reader of this forum for years and also a previous Duggar "fan"; don't get me wrong I in no way agreed with all of their beliefs, in fact I disagree with most of them but over the years really got into their specials and show and loved watching their kids grow up then coming hear to read. This news was absolutely heartbreaking and I feel so very bad for those poor girls!!! They are so beautiful and have so much potential. It sickens me that they and the other children's lives are RUINED by the oldest Smuggar. This may die down but it will never go away! Although he should've done prison time, he will absolutely pay for this in some ways the show is gone, his job is done, the family is losing money by the second! Again, I have no sympathy for him or even Anna but my heart breaks for each Duggar child and grandchild; I hope somehow they get through this.

[mebeforee]

The child who discussed spanking did clarify that the parents did not leave bruises on them with the rod. I think the majority of Americans consider corporal punishment to be acceptable in some circumstances, so I don't see this information as something that most papers would think is newsworthy ESPECIALLY considering the other information being discussed atm.

I personally don't think spanking is a particularly effective method of discipline because it only teaches children to be frightened of consequences when they're caught, and doesn't teach them why their actions were wrong or inappropriate. Instead it teaches them that bad things are bad because you end up spanked, but if they think they can get away with it, that won't deter them at all. However, I don't think that spanking itself (even when using an object like a paddle) is abusive provided the parents doing it are not out of control emotionally (no angry outbursts and immediate physical discipline, that's a recipe for overreactions and emotional damage to the child) and provided they don't leave bruises or abrasions on the child. I was spanked as a child (sparingly) and I don't consider it to have been abusive. I just also don't consider it to have taught me right from wrong or changed my behavior in any significant way. It does create the opportunity for abusive situations to occur in parents who do not have the necessary levels of self-control, and it doesn't actually deter misbehavior in the children - it just motivates them to hide their wrongdoings. But I don't think most people would consider the spanking as described to be abuse, certainly not when the molestation and the failure of the parents to properly address or prevent the molestation is much more obviously abusive.

[mebeforee]

I only saw that clip once, but wasn't she practically trying to wrestle that kid back into her shrug as she was talking to the camera?

That wasn't the impression I got. I think she tried to put it on her but there was no force involved and it didn't seem like she was really concerned about Josie's modesty, more that she wanted to look consistent in her message.

[Arrowland]

I only saw that clip once, but wasn't she practically trying to wrestle that kid back into her shrug as she was talking to the camera?

I can see Josie and Jackson being very independent and rebellious when they are teens. It will be interesting to see how Mops and Pops deal with them.

[Snarkangel Gabriel]

I am totally appalled and angry by this. I apologise if I am repeating the words or sentiments of others. I have not read each and every previous post on this.

First – I cannot accept this “just a kid†thing for something like this. At 14 you know right from wrong on key things. You may not be capable of understanding the nuances of where e.g. slightly questionable tax efficiency ends and criminal tax avoidance begins, but you do know that touching others’ private parts without their consent or if they are unable to give their consent is wrong. My son is 5. He knows that it is fine to play with his own willy but that he should only play with his own and nobody else should play with his. He understands this at 5 – by 14 he will understand more (at least I hope so or he will be placed in a suitable institution). Plus, those saying Josh was “just a kid†strike me as of very similar ilk to those who endorse 12 years olds being tried as adults for murder and who opposed the US Supreme Court decision about 10 years ago which deemed execution for crimes committed by those under 18 unconstitutional. This was wrong and Josh knew it.

Second - JB and J’Chelle are terrible parents and I do not say such things lightly because parenthood is hard and every patent has their shortcomings. However, the Duggar parents allowed their daughters to remain in an abusive environment and did virtually nothing to prevent it. They seem to have regarded Josh’s actions as far less culpable than the girls’ would have been had they engaged in similar, but consensual activity with a fiancé. Even now, their lack of appreciation for the impact of this is incredible. They state that Josh made “bad mistakes†and that the Duggars were “shocked†and went through a “dark and difficult timeâ€. To me, this reads as a total failure to grasp the severity of this or the impact on the victims here. It’s a bit like suggesting that the Titanic was a somewhat disappointing boat trip or that North Korea’s human rights record is slightly suboptimal.

Third – This seems to happen time and time again in repressive religious environments where all sexual thoughts and feelings are sinful. As I say above, yes Josh would have known this was wrong and I in no way mean this as an excuse, but this whole environment is one in which there seems to be little or no distinction between abusing your sisters and having a Tommy Tank (to use Cockney rhyming slang) over Playboy. And the Duggars’ response still seems to endorse this lack of distinction by their absence of outrage at Josh and their failure to protect their daughters.

Most importantly, my thoughts right now are with the Duggar girls and the other victims. You are not to blame; you are worthy and if you want to escape you will find plenty of good people willing to support and value you. Your family may perceive these incidents as “bad mistakes†on Josh’s part, but there are people who understand their true gravity and who are qualified to offer you the help which you deserve and which you may not have received.

A final point, I am in the happy position of never having experienced sexual abuse. If any of my comments and thoughts above are inadvertently offensive please speak out so that I can edit my post or ask the mods to do so. This is a pain I cannot imagine and thus I cannot empathise and do not presume to do so.

Goethe said “none are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.†I worry that this applies to the victims here. I hope they understand that they can be truly free.

Free Jinger; Free Jessa ; Free Jana; Free Jill; Free Joy Anna; free all who have parents who fail in their most basic duty to protect them evident, proximate harm.

[FormerFan]

I can't post the link due to being on my mobile device but one thing I found to be eerie was that on Sunday Deanna Duggar (Famy's mom) posted on her Facebook. "greater is He who is in me then he who is in this world; (Make sure you know the facts before you believe any story!!!!!) God Bless"

Did they know this was coming?? Is this why Josh bought a home in Arkansas? Nothing appeared in the media until Wednesday!

Also, it looks like the Seewalds are in support of the Duggars! Check out Guinn Seewalds latest update

https://m.facebook.com/guinn.seewald.1? ... t=messages

[latraviata]

Anyone seen this??

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfem ... -like.html

Of course JB an M didn't respond very well to Josh. What else do you expect from them? Sensible parenting?

[MiddleAgedLady]

I'm having an Internet discussion on Google Plus with a Catholic Nun. She said that this an out of proportion reaction to an event that happened when Josh was 14 years old. He shouldn't have to had quit his job. She gave me this link. http://www.westernjournalism.com/a-chri ... sh-duggar/

My biggest point, to her, is that the Duggar's never got the children help and this would force them too. Plus they will stop getting money from a fake reality show which shows this dangerous cult as normal. But my big mistake is throwing in Catholic priests as being pedophiles and their cases being brought out in the open years later. She said that was apples vs oranges and the priest was an adult.

Am I going to be able to change her mind!

[MiddleAgedLady]

I'm having an Internet discussion on Google Plus with a Catholic Nun. She said that this an out of proportion reaction to an event that happened when Josh was 14 years old. He shouldn't have to had quit his job. She gave me this link. http://www.westernjournalism.com/a-chri ... sh-duggar/

My biggest point, to her, is that the Duggar's never got the children help and this would force them too. Plus they will stop getting money from a fake reality show which shows this dangerous cult as normal. But my big mistake is throwing in Catholic priests as being pedophiles and their cases being brought out in the open years later. She said that was apples vs oranges and the priest was an adult.

Am I going to be able to change her mind!

[ViolaSebastian]

Anyone seen this??

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfem ... -like.html

Of course JB an M didn't respond very well to Josh. What else do you expect from them? Sensible parenting?

If there's one thing that should never be "in-house", it's sexual abuse counseling.

[polecat]

Both of my sisters were raped by a cousin. My parents divorced and I seldom saw his side of the family and only on 1 occasion did I see the cousin. I didn't find out until I was 20 years old because my sisters and my mom did not think I could handle it. And I couldn't.

My sisters lives have been harder than most and I have felt the agony (of course not to their extent) too. I even started to go to counseling when my children were born because I was terrified of someone hurting them. My idea is that if a family member can do this, who can I trust.

Now, my sisters are older than I so I don't feel as though I could have protected them but I do have ''survivor's guilt'' that it didn't happen to me and because of that I feel that the sister that wasn't molested *may have that as well. Your sisters are your first best friends and to this day I protect them as best as I can. For instance, you could say what ever you want to me but as far as my sisters go they are off limits.

I see so much pain hidden behind a beautiful smile when I look at Jana, Joy, and Jinger. Jessa and Jill may have the mindset to move past and toward forgiveness because forgiveness isn't about the person who hurt you, it is about forgiving yourself to not bear this yoke around your neck anymore and let yourself be free to enjoy life. I am deeply hurt for these girls and I am absolutely filled with anger towards the parents, Josh, and ANYONE that defends this act.

Let's take Josh out of the equation and say this heinous act was from another source, we will call him ''Bill".

Bill, comes around the house, is a family friend and the parents find out what Bill did.

1. Would the fundies have #IbelieveinBill?

2. Would there not be a huge outcry that the parents allowed Bill to not only come back into the home, but drive the victims 18 hours from home, and be left in charge of very small children?

I think "Bill" would be castrated in the town square by the fundies but because it's NUMBER ONE PERV JOSH then it's just a ''mistake'' as I have seen written on Youtube. A mistake? I just can't. These people are being worshiped like false idols and it makes me want to puke something up that looks like that cat hair on top of Michelle's head.

I really don't think that Bill would be castrated by fundies. After spending two decades growing up in this world, I have story after story of abuse, and in the vast majority of them, the abusers were protected, and the victims were swept under the rug like so much refuse. Good god, google Tina Anderson! This is not an isolated incident or an aberration. IT IS A WAY OF LIFE. It is par for the course in fundamentalist Christianity, and that fact is proven by the way every fundy is reacting over it. If I see one more "judge not that ye be not judged" or "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone," I'm quite likely to just scream.

Bottom line -- this just happened to be Josh. Could have been any fundy. The response would have been the exact damn same because no one freaking cares what men do. We protect the men at all costs. We protect reputations at all costs. Anyone who speaks out is damaging the testimony of Christ and deserves to be shunned and shamed.

[bella8050]

Well, thank goodness! So maybe Comcast needs to be badgers for still having it available. Jerks. Comcast is a big pain in the ass anyway. Lol.

I have Comcast as well, I had been meaning to see if they took it down as well. Maybe they will but it just haven't gotten around to it yet since they're not under the same pressure to make an immediate change like TLC. They should take it down though out of respect for TLC's decision to pull the show.

[ViolaSebastian]

I'm having an Internet discussion on Google Plus with a Catholic Nun. She said that this an out of proportion reaction to an event that happened when Josh was 14 years old. He shouldn't have to had quit his job. She gave me this link. http://www.westernjournalism.com/a-chri ... sh-duggar/

My biggest point, to her, is that the Duggar's never got the children help and this would force them too. Plus they will stop getting money from a fake reality show which shows this dangerous cult as normal. But my big mistake is throwing in Catholic priests as being pedophiles and their cases being brought out in the open years later. She said that was apples vs oranges and the priest was an adult.

Am I going to be able to change her mind!

From my point of view, 14 is plenty old enough to know that touching your sisters in a sexual way is inappropriate. He may have been legally a child, but he was old enough to know that groping your five year old (FIVE YEAR OLD!) sister is beyond the pale.

[sense and nonsense]

Anyone seen this??

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfem ... -like.html

Of course JB an M didn't respond very well to Josh. What else do you expect from them? Sensible parenting?

It physically pained me to read that.

Gothard's list, along with the chart on how to deal with abuse are the two most misinformed and badly researched documents ever.

[LilyRose]

Sorry if I'm repeating something that has been already mentioned- but I was just wondering if all the various families that have stayed with the Duggars were aware of Josh's past- the Bates, the Hartono's, the Queries etc.

Were they ever made aware that they were taking their children into the home of a child molester.

You know after Josh, JB and Michelle I think the people I'm most disgusted with are the Kellers, not just Anna for marrying him, but also her parents for letting her, and for sending Suzanna to go and stay with him knowing what he was.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

In regard to the police chief and liability for releasing the report, this section of the article stood out to me:

Springdale Mayor Doug Sprouse said O’Kelley and Springdale City Attorney Ernest Cate determined after researching the matter that the report had to be released under law.

“From every indication I have the chief and city attorney reluctantly did what they had to do to comply with the state FOI (freedom of information) law,†Sprouse said Saturday (May 23).

I think they can demonstrate they were operating in good faith. If the fault for not protecting the victims lies with anyone, it is with JB and M for exposing the family to all this attention. This story would never have blown up if 19KAC didn't exist.

[Catey]

I just wanted to say, can you imagine how different the fallout would look if Josh had been peeping and creeping on his Brothers instead of his sisters? Would there still be so much Fundy defence? Me thinks not.

:gay-gay:

[awkwardblackchick]

Just looked on instagram and founds this gem

https://instagram.com/p/3CRIx2OOqZ/?taken-by=jingernicoleduggar

[ILoveJellybeans]

I can't post the link due to being on my mobile device but one thing I found to be eerie was that on Sunday Deanna Duggar (Famy's mom) posted on her Facebook. "greater is He who is in me then he who is in this world; (Make sure you know the facts before you believe any story!!!!!) God Bless"

Did they know this was coming?? Is this why Josh bought a home in Arkansas? Nothing appeared in the media until Wednesday!

Also, it looks like the Seewalds are in support of the Duggars! Check out Guinn Seewalds latest update

https://m.facebook.com/guinn.seewald.1? ... t=messages

But he molested her daughter in law :(

Who will protect Jessa now :( I hope Ben realises how much of a big deal this is. I don't think another person should let the girls down :( Someone needs to understand how terrible this is. Someone needs to speak up for them, and tell them that what happened was wrong.

[mebeforee]

Sorry if I'm repeating something that has been already mentioned- but I was just wondering if all the various families that have stayed with the Duggars were aware of Josh's past- the Bates, the Hartono's, the Queries etc.

Were they ever made aware that they were taking their children into the home of a child molester.

You know after Josh, JB and Michelle I think the people I'm most disgusted with are the Kellers, not just Anna for marrying him, but also her parents for letting her, and for sending Suzanna to go and stay with him knowing what he was.

I don't know about the Bates or the Queries... I think they're more likely to have known about something having happened but perhaps not exactly what it was. The Hartonos didn't even meet the Duggars until a year or so after the series started, by which time Josh was married and living with Anna. Plus the Hartonos are siblings, not a couple, and as far as I know they don't have any children. Since they didn't bring kids into the Duggar house AND Josh was living in a different house nearby at the time, I doubt the family would have felt they needed to know about it. They do seem really close with the older girls, though, and JD so maybe they found out simply through spending a lot of time with their close friends.

[PegBundyOfFundies]

Just looked on instagram and founds this gem

https://instagram.com/p/3CRIx2OOqZ/?taken-by=jingernicoleduggar

Thats not Jingers page. Its a fan page.

[FormerFan]

That's not Jinger's page it's a fan thankfully!

[platypus]

Longtime lurker here, but this clusterf**k has brought me out of the woodwork. Gotta say, if this dies down and 19KAC stays on the air, I will lose all faith in humanity. I was sexually abused as a child, and 25 years later I still can't live a normal life. I've devoted my career to making sure it doesn't happen to other kids, and the thought that other people could dismiss or forget it makes me want to curl up and die.

[Portnoy]

I really don't think that Bill would be castrated by fundies. After spending two decades growing up in this world, I have story after story of abuse, and in the vast majority of them, the abusers were protected, and the victims were swept under the rug like so much refuse. Good god, google Tina Anderson! This is not an isolated incident or an aberration. IT IS A WAY OF LIFE. It is par for the course in fundamentalist Christianity, and that fact is proven by the way every fundy is reacting over it. If I see one more "judge not that ye be not judged" or "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone," I'm quite likely to just scream.

Bottom line -- this just happened to be Josh. Could have been any fundy. The response would have been the exact damn same because no one freaking cares what men do. We protect the men at all costs. We protect reputations at all costs. Anyone who speaks out is damaging the testimony of Christ and deserves to be shunned and shamed.

This pretty much sums it up for me. No matter how you look at it, the bottom line is that this is the result of living within this culture.