Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors - Part 4

[Toothfairy]

I just read the gawker article about the gay crew member on the Duggars show. There was gossip years ago that the Duggars had some kind of agreement with TLC or the production company that no gay people would be working on their show.

Yep. What Michelle said was disgusting. http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-your-dug ... 1706502185

So, during the leadup to their first family trip to New York to appear on the Today Show, Michelle started approaching some of us about New York and if it’s “scary for kidsâ€. Because Michelle came to us, it was acceptable to entertain conversing with her but producers would always rush over and monitor the conversation. That very day we had a couple of crewmembers new to the set not familiar with the drill. She had directed this question to four of us who all happened to be standing together. As tempting as it was to give some ridiculous answer, the producer’s face reminded us to just be polite and give her the answer she wants. Well, the followup question is when it went completely off the rails. “Well, I hear the city is overrun by ..... gays... has that been causing a lot of problems?†One of the new crewmembers laughed and said “Why don’t you ask “Jimmyâ€? (Changed his name) and then proceeds to yell over his shoulder “Hey, Jimmy, you giving the city lots of problems???†Jimmy as you can guess, was gay, but this fact was completely lost on the Duggars.

It took her a minute to process that the joke answer might mean that there might really be one of these gays she’s always heard about nearby! In her house, even! She pulled the producer over to the corner and started yelling at him and demanding to know if what was just said was a joke, and that she wants to see Jimmy. We’re all watching this go down from a distance dying inside at how funny this was, and how shit is about to really hit a very big fan. The producer is now in a very tough position, because Jimmy is a veteran of the industry and is excellent at what he does, but now the Duggars’ weird uncultured Pollyanna worldview is threatening to disrupt the production staff. We could see the producer trying to calm her down and offering to have a talk with Jimmy (who we all thought was at a rig about 500 feet away, far enough out of ear shot) when suddenly Jimmy appears. ...

Michelle asked point blank “So ... you’re .... gay???†The four of us are staring at this from a distance as if we’re on the edge of our seats, completely shocked that someone in 2008 would even do that, and Jimmy ... suddenly strikes a pose like a model in a pinup photo, and responds “Well, darling, depends on who’s asking!†Holy shit, the four of us watching were doubled over in pain laughing so hard at this. ...

Well, when we returned, we found out that Jimmy was removed, fired from the set, and transferred to another production, and that none of us are to breathe a word of what we saw to anyone. The official reason given to pacify the Duggars was that he was “fired due to causing conflicts with the talentâ€. Talent! Amazing how such a small sentence can contain so much hyperbole. He was fired 100% because he was gay and for no other reason. The conflict was because he was gay. Of course, he wasn’t really fired fired, but taken off this particular crew. Jimmy was super cool and took it all in stride, and understood the reasoning and the delicate balance the producers needed to have to please these stupid people. And the reason he never came forward or made a stink was because he was paid a bonus and moved to a more desirable production. The dramatics of the “firing†was inflated for the Duggars’ benefit, stupid enough to believe that normal people from more progressive parts of America would support the removal of a gay person from a job filled with union democrats. (Another secret they weren’t aware of!)

...They kept a very tight lid on this incident, because on future tapings when new crews would be swapped in, they were suspiciously more and more straight-edged Christian than you’d typically see on the set of a television show, any television show, outside of the 700 Club. As long as the Duggars are comfortable and safe from the scary city gays, all went according to plan. ...

Sorry this was so long, I guess I could have just told you that Michelle got someone fired because they were gay, but I thought setting the scene is important to the story. Enjoy!

[corundogs]

Long time lurker, first time poster...

A really sick thought came into my head when reading the last thread...and I really hope this doesn't come across as anything other than sympathy and disgust at the way this was handled. This is not meant to be disparaging...

So I take it that FJ has concluded based on the police reports, the old posts from back in 2007 and other things, that Jana was the one untouched.

What if her current circumstances (mainly, being unmarried and not having any relationship that I know of) are in part - and I don't mean this as the ONLY reason, and this is just based on how we know M&JB handled the situation - that she has low self-esteem because she was the only one who wasn't a target??

What if she somehow has turned that into "I am not desirable" or something???

Just typing that out made my stomach do a couple of flips...it would be sooooo awful if that is even a thought in her head. But based on what we know how this family treats attraction to the opposite sex, I just can't deny that it was something that could have happened.

Am I way off base here?

[hockeymoo]

OK wow, I think I was seriously misunderstood. I am not making an excuse. Josh is a sex offender. He is sick and twisted and he should have to suffer consequences other than saying I am sorry and God forgave me. I am not making excuses.

My question was more technical. Not all sex offenders are pedophiles. And given that josh was technically a child at the time, can you clinically call someone a pedophile when as a child they molested another child? I guess what I am asking is did Josh choose his victims because he was specifically attracted to children, or did he choose his victims based on who was readily available to him and possibly, least likely to rat him out?

Please please don't think I am a leg humper. I am as far from that as possible, though I truly do feel such sadness and concern for all of the kids, Josh's kids included.

My empathy for josh only extends to the point where I don't feel he received any adequate treatment for his issues. And I feel that his upbringing put him at risk for developing into a sexual predator.

I think Josh's sexual preference, like most sexual predators, is simply "power." He molested when he thought he could get away with it. His crime wasn't masturbating 3 times a day because his hormones were raging, or kissing a girl his own age from homeschool camp - he preyed on his sleeping sisters. Whatever the label, it's messed up.

[ViolaSebastian]

I didn't notice that but I did notice something else I thought strange , one of the girls said she was touched on her "pee pee holder" I've never heard a child use that term and I've worked with a lot of children. Maybe it's a southern term?

I live in the south and have worked with children, and I've never heard this term used before either. I suspect it's a Duggar euphemism for vagina and penis than regional slang. Lord knows using correct anatomical terms is like summoning the Debil.

[eh02]

I think Josh's sexual preference, like most sexual predators, is simply "power." He molested when he thought he could get away with it. His crime wasn't masturbating 3 times a day because his hormones were raging, or kissing a girl his own age from homeschool camp - he preyed on his sleeping sisters. Whatever the label, it's messed up.

Power is a given. You don't touch someone who can't consent without that sense of entitlement and that feeling of being the one in power.

I guess the real question is how anyone is supposed to feel confident that he is NOT a pedophile and has NOT done this again. Sure, it's possible. But most people who molest children don't just need 3 months of manual labor to suddenly be "cured." I am very, very suspicious that this was something that just happened for one year and then abruptly stopped and was never a problem again. It's just hard to believe, personally. Most people who act out sexually in positions of power are NOT one time offenders.

And ETA: I thought the "pee pee holder" thing was REALLY weird too. Didn't they identify both the male and female genitals as "pee pee holders?" That is such a weird term to use.

[bella8050]

When I woke up this morning, I saw that my 14 year old daughter was watching the interview episode that aired Tuesday. I did a double take, and asked her how she was watching it. She told me "they may have cleared the cable schedule, but OnDemand is still available." I explained that every time somebody chooses a 19KAC title, that pays JB&M a royalty. A royalty that those victims, all 18 of those kids (screw Josh) will never see. She asked how in the world could we support those kids without actually supporting the parents. I guess we will have to see.

I've seen something like this mentioned a few times about royalties...the residuals are given because the shows are aired, not viewed. It would be different if it was a situation where you are buying a specific episode. For regular TLC airings and free On Demand, they are not getting money per viewing. Whenever the syndication contract is up for renewal, if the re-runs draw in a large amount of viewers, they might be able to negotiate a bit on price. However in general residuals go down over time.

[sense and nonsense]

Long time lurker, first time poster...

A really sick thought came into my head when reading the last thread...and I really hope this doesn't come across as anything other than sympathy and disgust at the way this was handled. This is not meant to be disparaging...

So I take it that FJ has concluded based on the police reports, the old posts from back in 2007 and other things, that Jana was the one untouched.

What if her current circumstances (mainly, being unmarried and not having any relationship that I know of) are in part - and I don't mean this as the ONLY reason, and this is just based on how we know M&JB handled the situation - that she has low self-esteem because she was the only one who wasn't a target??

What if she somehow has turned that into "I am not desirable" or something???

Just typing that out made my stomach do a couple of flips...it would be sooooo awful if that is even a thought in her head. But based on what we know how this family treats attraction to the opposite sex, I just can't deny that it was something that could have happened.

Am I way off base here?

See.

The thing is, this could be true.

But it could also be true that Jana is quiet and shy because she doesn't like being on camera.

Or because she was blanket trained.

Or because she was hit with a freaking rod.

We have no way to know. We are not her therapists.

In fact, we are just members of an internet message board who've had highly scripted and edited glimpses of their lives for the last 10 years.

These threads have been way over analysing all the girls' behaviour wrt the abuse. It's disgusting. Stop viewing them solely as victims of sexual abuse.

No other form of abuse is treated like this. We've known for years that they were physically and emotionally abused. This mentality stems from the sexual abuse victims are tainted mentality.

Tldr: don't treat every word that the Duggars have said as a consequence of abuse. That's the kind of shit that makes it harder to recover from abuse.

(This isn't a personal attack, just a mentality of many members on the board that is disturbing me)

[Luvchild]

http://youtu.be/cafIbTQTeOk

Seriously JimBob and Michelle need help and kicked in their butts!

[ClaraOswin]

I didn't notice that but I did notice something else I thought strange , one of the girls said she was touched on her "pee pee holder" I've never heard a child use that term and I've worked with a lot of children. Maybe it's a southern term?

If I'm remembering correctly, the child that said "pee pee holder" was most likely one of the younger boys being interviewed (not a victim.)

[vienna]

As much as I find all of your comments interesting and necessary and agree with most of them, there is one forgotten point I would like to stress again. But before I do so let me share the lint to libby annes last amazing article. I couldn´t agree more with her:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfem ... eness.html

The way the duggars, especially the girls, their husband alle the leghumpers are going to handel this is exactly how the have been tougt to: Forgive the sinner, forget the victim whos only job is to forgive.

The better way to discredit the Duggars by simply showing the fans what they really stand for is in my oppinion by mentionin what the police report clearly stated:

THE DUGGARS SPANK THEIR KIDS WITH A ROD!!!!

How many times did we receive parental guidelines focosing on a soft voice and talking with your kids a lot? This kind of discepline among the kids does not come from using a soft voice. Why in the world does FJ and the media totally ignore this fact we have now proof for? Since I am from Europe I beinn to wounder wheather spanking with a rod just is not considered such a big deal in the US or amongst conservative christains

Can I please see headlins on the rod!!!!???

[Four is Enough]

Ugh. Why did I watch. :wtf:

[singsingsing]

Are you kidding? People who think it's normal and not that big of a deal for a 14-year-old boy to repeatedly grope his younger sisters' breasts and vaginas over a period of at least a year, are not going to see any issue with parents spanking their children with a rod.

[Lillybee]

I wonder if Mullet thinks that the molestation may still be happening.

There was something so off when she got so upset at Jill's wedding because Josie removed her little jacket and exposed her shoulders.

I remember thinking at the time, who could believe that a 4 year old's shoulders could be defrauding and now I know that Josh did molest a 4-5 year old sister.

[ariel9]

I pointed that out in the quiver full I snark. They need to teach their sons and daughters about consent.

[sisterwives]

Speaking of the beating with a rod -- how were the Duggars NOT investigated for that? I figured that under AR law, corporal punishment with an open hand was legal but with objects, it was a no go. And a rod seems pretty severe for young children, since at the time of the interviews the subject interviewed said ALL of the children were beaten with the rod.

[sense and nonsense]

I wonder if Mullet thinks that the molestation may still be happening.

There was something so off when she got so upset at Jill's wedding because Josie removed her little jacket and exposed her shoulders.

I remember thinking at the time, who could believe that a 4 year old's shoulders could be defrauding and now I know that Josh did molest a 4-5 year old sister.

Or maybe it's because of the same reason she had her knees blurred out on the show?

ETA: So much random speculation. Why would she worry about abuse in public at the wedding? She didn't care enough to separate Josh and the girls when the incident actually took place!

[HarleyQuinn]

Surely there are more than 5 victims! And Josh may be a victim if sex abuse himself.

There could be more than 5 victims, sure. But groping isn't always a learned behavior from previous sexual abuse. If he had been doing something more extreme or specific, I would think so. But not groping.

As for the other point about blocking out "live with their parents JB and Michelle Duggar" even if they blocked that bit out, the evidence still overwhelmingly pointed towards his sisters. Who else would he have had access to at night time?

[nomoxian]

Or maybe it's because of the same reason she had her knees blurred out on the show?

With someone like Michelle, who really knows. :cray-cray:

I'd like to think it's because she is worried about potential abuse - but in that case she wouldn't let the abuser around her other kids.

[eh02]

I really loathe Michelle in so many ways, but I truly hope she's not a victim of abuse herself. If she was, maybe I could understand how f*cked up she is a little better. Her awful beliefs about sexuality and men's "lack of control" must run really, really deep when her son abused her daughters a decade ago and she can STILL look those girls straight in the eye and tell them they need to dress or behave a certain way or else a man will not be able to control himself.

I hope those girls know by now that men CAN control their urges. If they touch you when you don't want them to, THEY CHOSE TO DO THAT. No matter what you're wearing, how you're acting, who you are. It was not out of their control. They made a choice.

[ClaraOswin]

Was the thing with Josie showing her shoulders in the Jill wedding special episode? I can't remember it at all. Was it not in the original airing?

[mebeforee]

I don't remember Michelle being actually upset by Josie taking her coat off. She made an offhand comment about it after Josie came over to talk to her about something while she was being questioned about their family's modesty standards. She made a joke about how Josie's shoulders should be covered, but there was no distress or embarrassment from her. It really didn't seem like she thought her five year old was defrauding anyone, it seemed she thought this was only necessary for older girls. (Which isn't true even then, of course).

[vienna]

Are you kidding? People who think it's normal and not that big of a deal for a 14-year-old boy to repeatedly grope his younger sisters' breasts and vaginas over a period of at least a year, are not going to see any issue with parents spanking their children with a rod.

Good point, but I still think that this should be also covered by the media. And on the molestation reports one could mean, that what Josh did was probably not so bad, the parents wanted to protect him and he was probably just a curious teenager. Only people who read the report know for example that vaginas have been touched.

With spanking the kids with a rod, there is no (or not so much) room for interpretation on what exactly happened.I know it is - from an objectiv point of view - wrong but I think that sexuall abuse is a topic where people have more different opinions than with physical abuse.

For the ATI Christians there is no hope anyway but a lot of not so brainwashed viewers could feel fooled with the coming out of the "true parenting".

[HarleyQuinn]

I don't remember Michelle being actually upset by Josie taking her coat off. She made an offhand comment about it after Josie came over to talk to her about something while she was being questioned about their family's modesty standards. She made a joke about how Josie's shoulders should be covered, but there was no distress or embarrassment from her. It really didn't seem like she thought her five year old was defrauding anyone, it seemed she thought this was only necessary for older girls. (Which isn't true even then, of course).

I only saw that clip once, but wasn't she practically trying to wrestle that kid back into her shrug as she was talking to the camera?

[DIRTYPILLOWS]

Both of my sisters were raped by a cousin. My parents divorced and I seldom saw his side of the family and only on 1 occasion did I see the cousin. I didn't find out until I was 20 years old because my sisters and my mom did not think I could handle it. And I couldn't.

My sisters lives have been harder than most and I have felt the agony (of course not to their extent) too. I even started to go to counseling when my children were born because I was terrified of someone hurting them. My idea is that if a family member can do this, who can I trust.

Now, my sisters are older than I so I don't feel as though I could have protected them but I do have ''survivor's guilt'' that it didn't happen to me and because of that I feel that the sister that wasn't molested *may have that as well. Your sisters are your first best friends and to this day I protect them as best as I can. For instance, you could say what ever you want to me but as far as my sisters go they are off limits.

I see so much pain hidden behind a beautiful smile when I look at Jana, Joy, and Jinger. Jessa and Jill may have the mindset to move past and toward forgiveness because forgiveness isn't about the person who hurt you, it is about forgiving yourself to not bear this yoke around your neck anymore and let yourself be free to enjoy life. I am deeply hurt for these girls and I am absolutely filled with anger towards the parents, Josh, and ANYONE that defends this act.

Let's take Josh out of the equation and say this heinous act was from another source, we will call him ''Bill".

Bill, comes around the house, is a family friend and the parents find out what Bill did.

1. Would the fundies have #IbelieveinBill?

2. Would there not be a huge outcry that the parents allowed Bill to not only come back into the home, but drive the victims 18 hours from home, and be left in charge of very small children?

I think "Bill" would be castrated in the town square by the fundies but because it's NUMBER ONE PERV JOSH then it's just a ''mistake'' as I have seen written on Youtube. A mistake? I just can't. These people are being worshiped like false idols and it makes me want to puke something up that looks like that cat hair on top of Michelle's head.

[weezie]

I've seen something like this mentioned a few times about royalties...the residuals are given because the shows are aired, not viewed. It would be different if it was a situation where you are buying a specific episode. For regular TLC airings and free On Demand, they are not getting money per viewing. Whenever the syndication contract is up for renewal, if the re-runs draw in a large amount of viewers, they might be able to negotiate a bit on price. However in general residuals go down over time.

Well, thank goodness! So maybe Comcast needs to be badgers for still having it available. Jerks. Comcast is a big pain in the ass anyway. Lol.