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Forgiving molesters, by Jack Chick


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fabkiwi06

What the actual fuck did I just read? That man gave his toddler daughter herpes but it's all ok because they prayed it away?!?!?!

Here kids... you just went through something traumatic... read this shitty comic and pray and Jesus will magically cure you of everything!

Fuck.

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FundieFarmer

WTF is with this cultural absolution of serious shit like this?

No, Chick, no Lori (& Lori Leghumpers), no Anna and JB and Michelle, no Gothard...this isn't a mistake, it's not a sin, and it's not forgiven this easily.

Good lord these people.

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16strong

It's okay. I gave my daughter herpes, but God forgave me.

It's okay. I beat up my wife, but God forgave me.

It's okay. I stole 97% of my cancer charity's donations to fund my private exploits, but God forgave me.

It's okay. I kicked my gay son out of the house for being a sinner, but God approves.

It's okay. I beat up a woman for being trans, but she's not really a woman, so God approves.

It's okay. I murdered my wife. She wasn't giving me enough sex, and it was probably a sin, but God forgave me.

It's okay. I drowned all my kids because my wife is divorcing me and she can't have them, but God forgave me, so you should too.

Tell me... when do people stop giving this type of thinking a pass?

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this defines my problem (even when I was a child sitting in church and Sunday School week after week) with Christians who believe asking for forgiveness, forgives and absolves ALL sin...it just seems to attract and/or protect people who are committing horrible acts.

As an aside, I have long felt that Michelle had childhood sexual abuse in her family, thus why she was so anxious to get married rather than move with her family to Ohio as a teen. Also why she was so attracted to the supposed protection of strict fundie life.

And all this is probably the real cause of her laundry room melt down, not having a lot of kids...

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FundieFarmer

Zz22zz, I thought about that earlier...I speculated that as well in an earlier thread and couldn't help but think that if it were so, wouldn't she have more sympathy for her daughters?

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shedemei

The only unforgivable sin in Christianity is blasphemy. Everything else can be forgiven by god if you sincerely confess and repent. Fundies must believe this as part of their dogma. So, molestation is forgivable by god and thus fundies must forgive it as well if the perpetrator confesses and repents publically. The slate is wiped clean.

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FundieliciousTaterTot

That tract is disgusting. So basically it is the wife's fault because she didn't submit to her husband and so with his marriage falling apart he tuned to his daughter. This Jack Chick is a nasty man.

On a side note: as a child I could never understand how people were instantly saved just by saying they love Jesus even if they did terrible things. Still don't understand that concept.

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hockeymoo

I wonder if fundie christians have ever considered that maybe the purpose of forgiveness isn't to reassure an abuser that he's going to heaven and he's excused of everything he's done, but to provide a mode of healing for the victim?

Is it crazy to hypothesize that the people Jesus forgave were probably being told by the religious leaders of the day that their various ailments were because God was judging and condemning them, and that's why he reassured them they were forgiven, and healed them to prove it?

I think all the Christian incest/molestation apologists are just getting the point of 'forgiveness' wrong by even focusing it on Josh and making him the subject of the debate.

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Accepting Christ isn't ONLY saying "I believe in Jesus." Believing in Jesus is supposed to mean you LIVE like Jesus. Which doesn't mean no mistakes, sure. But if you're selfish, greedy, don't serve others, fail to protect the weak...all things the Duggars do...what does that really say about their spirituality to begin with? Jesus would have made sure the victims were protected. I would argue that you do not really believe if you aren't walking in his footsteps.

For the record, I'm not a Christian. But I was raised in a conservative fundie lite church. There is a "good" way to let religion guide your life, it's just very rare that anyone actually does it. People would rather talk about how gay people are ruining american families and how much Jesus would be against gun control...but one of their idols is a molester and how DARE any of us hold him and his parents accountable when Jesus has forgiven?

A "good" Christian would acknowledge the pain he caused his victims, not talk about all the unfortunate ways continuing to molest his sisters would have ruined HIS life.

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2xx1xy1JD

Every bit of that tract is so wrong.

Could he make his religious doctrine any more horrifying?

Child molestation is blamed on the wife, since she didn't sleep with her husband enough and wasn't submissive enough.

For some strange reason, an unemployed man isn't capable of cleaning up or making his own dinner. The girls are ordered to do it for him.

We need to somehow demonize pornography, because of course that's worse that molestation.

The doctor never bothers to pick up the phone and call authorities.

Nobody says a word about what happens to the neighbor.

Not a word is said about how Lisa is suffering. It's all about how the father is going to hell.

In terms of actual theology, this is why I hate the "we're all sinners" line. No, we aren't all equally bad. Molesting children actually makes you worse than people who don't. If you believe in a God that treats lack of a particular belief as being something that will send you to hell but who doesn't seem to give any consequences for child molestation, you believe in a God with an ego complex instead of a moral code.

It's also why I hate the notion of instant forgiveness upon having faith in Jesus. Seriously, "moments later"??? No. The slate is not wiped clean in a few moments. Feeling bad about what you did is just the first step in a really long process - one that involves protecting your daughter and the rest of society from you, getting help for the daughter and making it clear that you accept full responsibility for the tremendous harm you caused her.

No, Lisa is not safe with her mother either if the mother failed to protect her even though she knew what was happening.

No, instant faith does not magically create a safe environment for Lisa. It's just prevented matters from being referred to authorities, it's left her molester in the home, it's put him in a position of spiritual authority in the home, it has allowed him to feel superior without actually getting counseling or dealing with the very real harm caused, and it is preventing Lisa from expressing hurt or anger or getting any help for her feelings at all. She's been badly hurt and betrayed by those closest to her, and it's all magically better just because they say they won't do it anymore. She won't be allowed to do anything but forgive them, and until that happens and she puts on a smile, they will tell her that they are going to heaven but her anger may send to her hell.

I'd run into parts of this mindset when dealing with abusers and addicts. It's not helpful - it's evil.

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princessmahina

What the FUCK is that?! Either Chick has a sick, warped, twisted mind to be able to come up with something like that, or he has some disgusting people around him. As a Christian, these kinds of things really bother me- it makes us all look bad.

I can't believe someone would write that. It's even more unbelievable that people would read and believe them.

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Mama Mia

What really boggles my mind about the hard - core extremist Christian's is that they seem to be really big on instant forgiveness for the huge things -- murder, molestation, stealing from charities , etc.........but beat their kids and judge people ridiculously harshly on the little , tiny stuff -- kids talking back, looking at porn, drinking a beer, not going to church --- any of the million daily rule infractions that don't cause real harm to other people are treated as huge issues. While the really big issues , that do hurt other people, are treated as inconsequential because God forgave you.

They have it backwards.

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Snarkle Motion
Here kids... you just went through something traumatic... read this shitty comic and pray and Jesus will magically cure you of everything!

Fuck.

Yep, Jesus will magically cure you of everything! Except the herpes....that's for life, sorry.

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SnazzyNazzy

Yep, Jesus will magically cure you of everything! Except the herpes....that's for life, sorry.

That made me snort-laugh.

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Furbabies
Relevant to the Duggar situation, here's a notorious tract from Jack Chick explaining how molestors are forgiven and cleansed through Jesus.

https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/4530227.html

Make sure you bring a bucket to vomit into.

Jack Chick tracts are twisted but that's got to be the most horrible... I don't even...

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Four is Enough

That was awful, smarmy, horrible, skeevy, and ridiculous. I do not forgive.

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Fundies don't seem to understand what forgiveness means. It is not synonymous for "this person shouldn't be held responsible for their actions." It is not synonymous with "act like nothing happened."

The girls forgiving Josh (as if they had a choice) is a totally separate issue from HOW MANY MISTAKES were made handling this. No proper counseling for any parties involved. The constant implication that girls are responsible for their actions but boys aren't.

The girls were taught that "giving away pieces of their heart" is permanent. They're taught that any mistake they make will lead to lifelong regret. And Josh gets to molest little girls and say nobody has any right to care anymore because Jesus forgives? Disgusting.

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mollysmom

Oh dear God, this just makes me sick. :doh:

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SPHASH

Oh God I wish I never opened this thread. I'm gonna be sick.

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"Forgiveness is for you, not the other person." - not sure who gets credit for it, but the concept appears in my Buddhist studies fairly often.

My personal view: If you forgive someone who has done something terrible, don't let them know you forgive them. The perpetrator could misinterpret your forgiveness to mean things are back to normal and then attempt to abuse your "trust."

The Duggars (and other fundies emphasizing Josh as the victim) use forgiveness as a tool to salvage their reputation. It has nothing to do with healing the actual victims. To me, forcing the victims to "forgive" Josh seems phony, and more like a contract requiring the victims to shut up in order to maintain the fundie status quo.

This brand of "Christian forgiveness" seems more like a PR move to the Duggars: Keep sweet & publicly announce your forgiveness so the abuser can be absolved and the men whose reputations are at stake can save face and move on (because the victims are such a nuisance [uNAMUSED FACE]).

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FloraKitty35

How nauseating and evil.

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shedemei
What the FUCK is that?! Either Chick has a sick, warped, twisted mind to be able to come up with something like that, or he has some disgusting people around him. As a Christian, these kinds of things really bother me- it makes us all look bad.

I can't believe someone would write that. It's even more unbelievable that people would read and believe them.

I can't imagine the kind of person that would be converted by this one.

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nana sew dear

For anyone who's interested here is a Wikipedia link to learn more about Jack Chick: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_T._Chick

A lot of people collect Chick Tracts. My son, an atheist, does. I send them to him when I find them. They're usually in bathrooms or being handed out at county fairs.

The article says he's Independent Baptist. I don't know it that's the same thing as IFB. You can go to his website and order these tracts. Fun FJ party favors?? :wink-kitty:

PS, I cut and copied the link. It didn't turn blue here (like an active link) so you might need to cut and paste too.

Link not broken because it's Wikipedia.

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