Arkansas Midwife Loses License - Mother Speaks Out Merged

[FundieFarmer]

If Vanessa did something dangerously wrong, and Jill learned from her under the assumption that Vanessa was right, then I hope Jill's ability to practice is revoked so that she has the requirement to learn from someone who is correct and practices ethically.

I think that Jill repeating a critical error because she learned it from Vanessa as correct is far worse than if she had to repeat all of her training, considering there are other lives involved.

[Black Aliss]

eta - I just cant believe that a single incidence would have this effect when Brandi Wood (of the "carri is having twins) rabbithole/tragedy is still happily practicing and that baby died.

home4birth.com

Did she even have a license to revoke at that time? I thought she was adamant about not needing certification, although she now says "I am an apprentice trained, non-nurse, Certified Professional Midwife." and that "Currently, I am attending National Midwifery College." I don't know what the criteria are for being a CPM, other than that it is most definitely not the same as being a CNM (certified nurse-midwife)

[FakePigtails]

amamasstory.com/2012/05/midwifery-series-day-5.html

Ok, so this is her? I totally remember her from the show.

Wow, I really want to know what happened.

From that site (bolding mine):

5. As for newborn care, are midwives able to administer the routine newborn medicines and vaccinations? Do they do newborn screenings?

Midwives are legally able to administer Vitamin K and Erythromycin (eye goop). We also do newborn screening. Neonatal vaccinations are done through a doctor and are frowned upon by many midwives. Midwives should give you research on the pros and cons of vaccinating your newborn. To find out more on how the midwife feels you would need to ask that individual midwife. We do however, continue to evaluate baby up to 6 weeks post-partum.

:?

And the bio says she quit after 3 years of nursing school. Interesting.

[halcionne]

She does appear to have relocated to Texas. Same business name

http://local.roysecityheraldbanner.com/ ... d=55172857

She practiced in TX before AR, so I wonder if this is current.

[slickcat79]

Jill's work will always be for nothing, because her midwifery training was never meant to be anything except a way to mark time until she got married and started popping out her own babies. I don't believe she ever intended to actually practice, or she would have done it by now. There was nothing stopping her except her own priorities.

Hopefully her background may give her a leg up in dealing with emergency situations, or maybe a way to be helpful if she ever takes other mission trips. There are some places in the world where even a partially-trained lay midwife is better than what is available locally. Those places do not include the US, though. While I would like for Jill to get what she wants in life, including a career, I don't personally think a Duggar-turned-lay-midwife should be inflicted on the rest of the population. There's not enough oversight.

[halcionne]

Did she even have a license to revoke at that time? I thought she was adamant about not needing certification, although she now says "I am an apprentice trained, non-nurse, Certified Professional Midwife." and that "Currently, I am attending National Midwifery College." I don't know what the criteria are for being a CPM, other than that it is most definitely not the same as being a CNM (certified nurse-midwife)

I'm not very familiar with Carri's story, but I was under the impression that the midwife was unlicensed.

[lascuba]

Is that GBS case the only one we know about? Either Arkansas is incredibly strict--and kudos if they are--or Venessa has an extensive list of of fuck-ups and that's why she lost her license. I wonder if that GBS case is why Jill agreed to be tested for GBS and agree wot IV antibiotics. She might not have if there hadn't been a recent case she was familiar with to scare some sense into her.

Not at all surprised that Venessa is now practicing in Texas. Lay midwives are notorious for jumping from state to state when things get hot, and Texas is pretty lax if homebirth horror stories I've read are anything to go by.

[halcionne]

Is that GBS case the only one we know about? Either Arkansas is incredibly strict--and kudos if they are--or Venessa has an extensive list of of fuck-ups and that's why she lost her license. I wonder if that GBS case is why Jill agreed to be tested for GBS and agree wot IV antibiotics. She might not have if there hadn't been a recent case she was familiar with to scare some sense into her.

Not at all surprised that Venessa is now practicing in Texas. Lay midwives are notorious for jumping from state to state when things get hot, and Texas is pretty lax if homebirth horror stories I've read are anything to go by.

She started in Texas. The yellow pages link upthread isn't dated, so it could be old. But her fb shows her catching babies in the last few days/weeks with a head-covering assistant I don't recognize from older fb entries. The about page says she serves Oklahoma as well, but, to be fair, I don't think she's updated the about page in quite a while.

[Alexa]

And does anyone think Jana cares at all about losing her permit because of this? I think not.

I do hope that Jill takes the test to get her license, she may really want it one day.

Crazy situation all around.

[artdecades]

Do we know that she lost it due to negligence or that she just didn't renew it because she left the state or something?

I did a little googling and found a rather vague post of hers from 2012 about a maternal death during c-section. She doesn't say if this person was her patient, but it sounds suspicious. But IDKY she would lose her license now for something in 2012 and in Texas

facebook.com/venessa.giron/posts/10151317401780425

[ColeMarie86]

Thanks, halcionne!! I love FJ mystery time! :auto-mysterymachine:

This is definitely a topic I've been wondering about. During Jill's never-ending pregnancy threads, I remember finding the original post Venessa had on her FB page that was so oddly worded. It said something like the mother took antibiotics, which is not the way I would word something about a mother getting an IV (took as opposed to got). I wonder what more they had against her to remove her license and if Jill and Jana are affected too.

[eh02]

Thank you for finding this! This actually makes me feel kind of sad for Jill...I know people had their doubts that she was never going to actually get certified, but I really thought that she did genuinely plan on following through, even if she did it in a limited capacity. I wonder if they knew she was probably going to lose her license for months now.

It must be pretty embarrassing for Jill. Between Venessa losing her license and Jill's botched homebirth attempt it's kind of tainted the whole "homebirth is magical and wonderful and every woman should do it!" thing.

Hopefully if Jill is aiming for a vaginal birth next time, she's at least willing to do it in a hospital to be safe. I honestly can't imagine wanting another homebirth after how traumatizing her supposedly 70 hour labor must have been.

[Funwithfundies]

That jumped out at me as well: "She spent three years in nursing school before God directed her on a different path. It seemed that midwifery was her high calling."

Why on earth didn't she finish nursing school and then become a CNM? I mean, I can certainly guess why...I just love how the answer is basically "Because God".

[halcionne]

Do we know that she lost it due to negligence or that she just didn't renew it because she left the state or something?

I did a little googling and found a rather vague post of hers from 2012 about a maternal death during c-section. She doesn't say if this person was her patient, but it sounds suspicious. But IDKY she would lose her license now for something in 2012 and in Texas

facebook.com/venessa.giron/posts/10151317401780425

She met with the state on June 10, 2014 and posted that it didn't go well. https://www.facebook.com/venessa.giron/ ... nref=story (I have so many screen shots of both of her fb's it's not funny. The internet is forever, Venessa Giron.

[halcionne]

That jumped out at me as well: "She spent three years in nursing school before God directed her on a different path. It seemed that midwifery was her high calling."

Why on earth didn't she finish nursing school and then become a CNM? I mean, I can certainly guess why...I just love how the answer is basically "Because God".

Shouldn't she have been close to graduating after three years? Was she on the verge of flunking out, or too fundie to do real science? :think:

[ColeMarie86]

She met with the state on June 10, 2014 and posted that it didn't go well. https://www.facebook.com/venessa.giron/ ... nref=story (I have so many screen shots of both of her fb's it's not funny. The internet is forever, Venessa Giron.

Now, on that post, someone said "I didn't realize you'd have to go before the dept of health. They aren't going to take your license or anything right?!" and she says no, she "just will probably have extra paperwork !"

So what happened?

[socalrules]

I am guessing she didn't quit nursing school so much as nursing school let her go. Who wouldn't just finish for the real license if they could?

[grandmadugger]

I posted this in a Jessa is pregnant thread but before we knew that she had been revoked.

It took me a while but here's the post about the delivery in Feb. 2014

We are in need of prayers, positive thoughts and a miracle! On Tuesday of this week, sweet Jozzie was born at 5:32 am. Around 7 am, she began to show signs of respiratory distress and was transported to the local hospital. The pediatrician took xray that showed no signs of infection, just that she had premature lungs. By 1pm, her blood pressure bottomed out and was life flighted to Children's. After 48 hours, she is on ECMO , with seizures and a brain bleed. Mama did EVERYTHING she was advised as far as antibiotic treatment, but Jozzie still has Group B Strep. Our sweet girl is fighting for her life... Please send up prayers for her and especially her parents who are physically and emotionally exhausted! Love and Health to all!

Feb 2015 she posted this on her personal page

WARNING- Honest Post.

One year ago today, my world was rocked and changed forever.. No, I didn't get married, no- I didn't have a baby , no - no one died.. Thankfully!

A year ago, a very sick baby was in my hands. She gave me mixed signals, she looked me in the eye for the last time for another 3 weeks ... I made the best decisions I could; I fought for a mother's right to birth where she wanted, I fought for my right to make the call...The journey that came afterward was excruciating and has, honestly, left me scarred. The year seemed so dark and lonely -- only to leave me feeling betrayed. I am so grateful to God for his miracles, even in this modern day. I am grateful for His mercy and grace ! I am thankful for healing . I am thankful that she is a beautiful 1yr old ... And I am still standing. Happy Birthday Beautiful!

And this in June 2015

Meeting is over , it didn't go over well but I expected nothing other than that- It was in regard to Baby Jozzie and in the end , I was told that I was negligent ...so sad. I will cry and sleep this off and keep doing what I love to do as long as I am able ! Prayers are appreciated .. Love to all

[FakePigtails]

Shouldn't she have been close to graduating after three years? Was she on the verge of flunking out, or too fundie to do real science? :think:

(fixed quotes)

I didn't even think of her failing out - it wouldn't surprise me though.

[halcionne]

Whatever happened, it took quite a while to go through the proper channels, because she only lost her license relatively recently. She wasn't listed on the March 9, 2015 pdf. The only older copy of the pdf in the wayback machine is from 2013 (she was listed), who here knows how to check google cache for another version?

In other news (somebody let me know if I'm digressing or reaching too much; it is my tendency :embarrassed: ) I noticed the Holts and their oldest daughter, Kaeleigh Tull, are active commenters on A Mommy's Butterfly fb. Kaeleigh announced a pregnancy last week, and lives in Missouri. Hmm... I hope she makes good choices.

[SassyPants]

So could this explain why Jill and Jana did not continue with their studies last year?

[grandmadugger]

Whatever happened, it took quite a while to go through the proper channels, because she only lost her license relatively recently. She wasn't listed on the March 9, 2015 pdf. The only older copy of the pdf in the wayback machine is from 2013 (she was listed), who here knows how to check google cache for another version?

In other news (somebody let me know if I'm digressing or reaching too much; it is my tendency :embarrassed: ) I noticed the Holts and their oldest daughter, Kaeleigh Tull, are active commenters on A Mommy's Butterfly fb. Kaeleigh announced a pregnancy last week, and lives in Missouri. Hmm... I hope she makes good choices.

I'll see what I can find in cache. I find it odd that nothing has been said. The last thing on her personal page was this "Midwives don't always get home cooking due to busy schedule!!! However after a long rewarding day of mamas and babies , it was so amazing to have dessert and half of dinner done wink emoticon thank you"

I know Jill's midwife lists Mo as where she is able to work. I haven't looked up Missouri's rules yet. I'll have to do that. I figured Jill used someone else just do to the fact I wouldn't want my boss looking at those parts. Though Jill did use Mrs. Query who is a long time family friend. Mrs. Query is only a student herself but she has two supervisors who don't work together. Wonder if that's so she can get her births in faster?

[grandmadugger]

So could this explain why Jill and Jana did not continue with their studies last year?

This happened fairly recently. It wouldn't have affected them last year.

[Coco]

i wonder why Jill didn't just go to the Farm. (Ina May Gaskin's birthing center) :lol: That seems like the holy grail among some homebirth believers. It's only 8 hours away from Tontitown.

[halcionne]

I'll see what I can find in cache. I find it odd that nothing has been said. The last thing on her personal page was this "Midwives don't always get home cooking due to busy schedule!!! However after a long rewarding day of mamas and babies , it was so amazing to have dessert and half of dinner done wink emoticon thank you"

I know Jill's midwife lists Mo as where she is able to work. I haven't looked up Missouri's rules yet. I'll have to do that. I figured Jill used someone else just do to the fact I wouldn't want my boss looking at those parts. Though Jill did use Mrs. Query who is a long time family friend. Mrs. Query is only a student herself but she has two supervisors who don't work together. Wonder if that's so she can get her births in faster?

Who was Jill's midwife? I'm sure her name's mentioned somewhere around here, but I'm damned if I can find it. I want to vet her, too. In the Jill thread, of course. ;)