Fundie Youth Ministry Movie

[DeeAZ44]

Some fundie film maker has come up with a movie critiquing the modern youth ministry culture. Papa Botkin, Dougie, and Voddie B are interviewed in this film. You can watch it free online dividedthemovie.com for a limited time.

Looks like Peter Bradrick & one of the Serven boys is connected with this film too.

[fundyfunland]

Some fundie film maker has come up with a movie critiquing the modern youth ministry culture. Papa Botkin, Dougie, and Voddie B are interviewed in this film. You can watch it free online dividedthemovie.com for a limited time.

Looks like Peter Bradrick & one of the Serven boys is connected with this film too.

Fine. I'll watch it. These people irk, but I should be cleaning and/or studying, so this seems like a decent distraction.

Rating & description to come....

[debrand]

I'm watching it right now, so I will probably add some observations to this post.

First, the music at the beginning is very dramatic.

2/3rds of American youth leave the church. Do they go to other churches? Because most people in the US report that they are Christians. Perhaps, like many people, they leave their parents' faith only to return to it later. The documentary lists none of these reasons but makes it sound as if an adult child who leaves his family's church is doomed to hell.

Oh Noes....America is on the same track as Europe!

One man asked which of the four of his five children were going to hell.

I'm only 1:32 seconds into the film. LOL

I'll give the makers credit. They must have graduated from Propaganda Are Us cause they use every tool that they have to create a dramatic, fear based film and I'm not even two minutes in yet.

[debrand]

They young man talking annoys the hell out of me.

He wants to know why kids don't want to grow up. He keeps harping on their lack of maturity.

What does he mean by maturity? My bet is that marrying later and not attending his type of church are marks of immaturity to him.

To me, maturity means that you can function in the world, you hold a job or attend school, you pay your bills and do what is required of you. You also realize that the world doesn't revolve aroudn you so you don't purposely inconvience others(Joshua Duggar showing up late for his wife's appointments)

Your house of worship and the age that you marry have little to do with maturity.

I hope that some of you want to watch the documentary so that I'm not discussing it alone. LOL

More thoughts....oh my goodnesss, this is one judgemental asshole. Seriously, this filmaker is an example of a "Christian upbringing." He goes into a concert and complains that Christians look like everyone else. How the hell are they supposed to look? The kids tell him that the concert makes a difference in their life but because a girl has a mohawk, the concert doesn't help them.

Teens reject the young earth in favor of evolution because the bible is not literal. The Bible was not meant to be a history or science book.

I am not eight minutes into the movie!

[Patsy]

"Are we loosing teens?" in the first two minutes.

Don't know what story/web page they were looking at, but I wouldn't want to be quoting people who can't spell as my "this is legit science-y stuff, y'all!" example.

[debrand]

One fault that I find with youth ministry is that sometimes kids are pushed into it. I've known several kids that felt that the youth ministry was just too clickish for them and didn't want to be part of it.

The solution is to realize that teens are unique just like adults.

Appealing to teens as individuals rather than a group is not what the documentary is about. The film maker appears to have a problem accepting that people are different. He wants everyone to be similar to him.

A man says that youth ministry doesn't have biblical support. No where does the bible say how the service of a church is supposed to be conducted. The bible doesn't spell out how to do many things that Christians do.

Okay, the young film maker is on air a lot. He is interviewing a man named Tryg and the camera keeps showing the young man instead. Shouldn't the young man not be so much an obvious part of his own documentary?

[Patsy]

One fault that I find with youth ministry is that sometimes kids are pushed into it. I've known several kids that felt that the youth ministry was just too clickish for them and didn't want to be part of it.

I don't have much experience with youth ministry, but are the youth groups of less... you know, shallow, clappy, rock music 'cool' churches, still as 'clickish'? Or is it more an extension of the church's individual culture itself?

[Patsy]

More unstructured reflections as we go along:

Okay, wait. Which four of his five kids does he want to see walk away and go to hell? Seriously? How many Christians believe in backsliding? He doesn't even seem to be endorsing that; it's like he's saying "Going to church gets you to heaven". ... doesn't seem like that would gel with the target audience?

"What gives them [today's youth] such contempt for Christian maturity and responsibility?" FUCK YOU. When they tell you they disagree with you it's not your RESPONSIBILITY they reject. JFC Leclerc.

Basically this documentary has to convince us that it is specifically youth ministry that's causing the problem. Not the overall church culture, not the overall culture of everything, not the churches, the youth ministry itself. So saying 'churches are doing some shallow things' might lend itself to saying 'and they do the same for youth ministry', but that to me doesn't say that youth ministry is what leads to so many kids no longer going to church. (That, and the answer seems obvious to me - kids stop going to church when they're making their own choices about it. America no longer has a culture where every normal family goes to church once a week, so why would kids choose to continue going?)

At about ten minutes - kids must start having doubts while still living with their parents. Really? They don't just... not happen to choose to go to church once it's up to them? You need to show us that the people you're talking about ARE having doubts and actually changing what they believe; so far you've just said 'they're leaving', and we already knew that.

At about fifteen minutes - why do we trust youth pastors more than parents to teach kids about God?

Okay, so you're not actually trying to convince us youth ministry is the problem, you have the Doug Phillips view that dad needs to be the priest. I mean, by what he said - why do we trust any pastor more than ourselves to learn about God?

[debrand]

I don't have much experience with youth ministry, but are the youth groups of less... you know, shallow, clappy, rock music 'cool' churches, still as 'clickish'? Or is it more an extension of the church's individual culture itself?

I don't know the answers to your questions. Kids are all different. More modern music and emotional appeals do effect some young people and lead them to want to learn more about their faith. Others would find that irritating.

I do know that my younger son really enjoyed a youth ministry at a local baptist church that included learning to weld. It was an unusual ministry. My son isn't a Christian, so the film maker would say that the youth leader failed but my son still talks about the lessons that he learned during that time. The leader discussed values and how to treat others. My son and his friends still talk about what they learned from the class. So, in regards to passing along a set of values, the youth leader was very succesful.

[Patsy]

BUH DEBRA CHURCH IS FOR LEARNING ABOUT CREATIONISM. Have you learned NOTHING?!?!eleventy

[debrand]

He talks about a man named Robert Raikers who is considered the father of the modern Sunday School. Because he gives very little information about this figure, I looked him up myself.

Apparently, Raikes started a school on Sunday to teach chimney sweeps how to read, write and about god. Who could criticize such an endeavor? Why, this young film maker! He makes no mention of the wide disparity between rich and poor during Raikes time, nor does he discuss the fact that many of these kids probably didn't come from functioning families. He is only worried that somehow, helping those kids in dire poverty, ruined the Christian family.

http://www.infed.org/walking/wa-raikes.htm

Even today, there are many people who don't come from loving families. Should the church ignore them and their problems because they can't fit into the mold of what Doug Phillips and his ilk believe a Christian should be?

He keeps saying that youth ministry isn't biblical. The bible doesn't say how the church should be run! Urgh.

Why does this young man(can't remember his name) sit so far back in his seat that he looks like his stomach hurts? Really, the film maker looks like he is in pain in some of the shots. Sometimes he wears glasses and sometimes he doesn't.

These people make it sound as if they are forced to attend churches that they dislike. Why can't there be different churches? Why do all churches have to run the same? Wouldn't pastors best know how to reach their congregation and the youth?

Doug Phillips is an ass. Segregated Sunday School is a result of a belief in evolution. It's all based on paganism!

So far, they haven't quoted any specific bible verses saying how churches should be run. They keep saying that it isn't biblical to have youth ministry but they quote no verses against youth ministry

[debrand]

BUH DEBRA CHURCH IS FOR LEARNING ABOUT CREATIONISM. Have you learned NOTHING?!?!eleventy

:lol:

More from the film: Not everyone whose child attends Sunday School or youth ministry is abandoning their duty as parents.

Their method for dealing with kids who don't have involved families is to 'raise up a generation of fathers." How the heck do you do that in the context of their beliefs? They don't really answer how they will reach kids from fatherless families.

One guy says that the family's with dads should mentor(they don't use that word) the fatherless kids but isn't that the point of youth ministry? Just because a kid attends youth ministry doesn't mean that other people at the church don't help that child.

One thing that the documentary has taught me is that men are apparently very weak willed. If a youth minister has a strong relationship with a child, that child's father will just give up on being a dad. Just like girl altar servers frighten boys from serving. :roll:

[Patsy]

And because everyone cares:

At about 37 minutes, we finally get some "DIFFERENT TYPES of youth ministry still lead to children moving away from the church". So... yay?

I'm still not convinced, though, and the documentary's moved onto "So how does the Bible say we should teach children?" Oh well. At the end, all I've got is "youth ministry is just a convention", which, sure. But I'm not convinced it's what's causing people not to continue attending church once they're adults. I have to say, it does seem more well put together than other documentaries I've seen - not that I've watched many fundy documentaries.

Side note: Doug Philips' "passionate" voice just makes him seem angry and unpleasant. If someone spoke to me like that, I'd move away - it's more personally aggressive than impassioned.

[debrand]

Patsy, they also artfully use music to make their point.

The documentary is well put together. Money has been spent on this project. Someone has studied propaganda and how to best reach people.

They need to have less Doug Phillips and more Voddie. Voddie's voice is pleasant.

Why the heck does this young man's glasses appear and disappear? Where do they go? Some shots he has on glasses, others he doesn't.

[loveandwar]

I'm debating if I should watch this. I've worked with the youth group at my church for a year-ish and I have a feeling this would get me very angry.

[debrand]

I'm debating if I should watch this. I've worked with the youth group at my church for a year-ish and I have a feeling this would get me very angry.

Please do. And remember, you can make fun of it also so that should help your anger a bit. The young man(can't recall his name) is earnest, self righteous and smug so that should provide you with a little snark material. :)

[Bookworm]

LOL, I am tempted to write him and be like, dude, I grew up with all of those beliefs you are spouting and I also believed wholeheartedly that compromise and disobedience were rife in the chuch and that was why it was losing people - but then it lost me, because of credibility issues of the source material, not because some people were watching bad TV or being immodest. I wonder if he'd even allow himself to pay attention to someone saying something like that, though.

[Joykins]

I'm guessing that this movie doesn't explore the possibility that youth ministries are keeping teens in church longer than they otherwise would have?

[slickcat79]

I'm guessing that this movie doesn't explore the possibility that youth ministries are keeping teens in church longer than they otherwise would have?

This. Youth Group was about the only church-related activity that I went to voluntarily as a teen. I was dragged to Sunday school and regular adult church services by my mother, and I barely remember any specifics. Except that in my middle school Sunday school class we read a LOT from the book of Job. That may have started me on my path to atheism because god was being kind of a dick.

My youth group did a lot of fun things-concerts, dinners, parties, etc. But we also did a lot of service-related things, which I found to be the most useful of any church activities. Of course, VF et al. would disagree because I might have started believing in works-based salvation or even humanism. I would probably tell those who consider sitting through a church service to be the most important thing about being a xtian to get off their butts and try to do something good for someone else. Jesus did, so it can't be that bad :roll:

[StandingWide]

Any film that starts out with Ken Ham is a masterpiece as far as I am concerned. I don't think a better argument against fundyism can be made than to show a rational person a few minutes of a Ham lecture.

Why does this young man(can't remember his name)

He's one of the Anaconda Boys

[liltwinstar]

Man, now I want to make a documentary!!! I went to family-integrated-church from the time I was 9. No Sunday School, no Youth Group. Well, there was the Friday night Youth Bible Study, but we didn't do anything fun - just a Bible Study. And my parents were always there (other parents dropped their kids off). Oh, and becuase we didn't go to the "right" homeschool co-op, my sister and I were completely ostracized from that "youth group" and literally had no friends there. But I digress. Despite being in "regular" church for hours and hours a week, despite Bible stuff every day of my homeschooled life, I still left God/Religion/Church. Why? Because I don't believe it. Simple as that. No "fun" youth group would have changed that; no further "disclipleship" would have changed that. I just don't believe. So I left. And now I want to make a documentary :)

[sableduck]

http://visiondistorting.blogspot.com/

I wrote a review and synopsis of this movie recently; thought you might enjoy it.

[loveandwar]

Please do. And remember, you can make fun of it also so that should help your anger a bit. The young man(can't recall his name) is earnest, self righteous and smug so that should provide you with a little snark material. :)

Haha. Classes just started back up for me so if I have some extra time, I'll definitely watch it and snark away! ;)

[debrand]

The man Tryg Jacobson that he interviews is the producer of the documentary. That pretty much blows out of the water any pretense of nonbias. Have there been other documentaries where the producer was called as an expert to be interviewed? Usually the producer is not in the actual film.

[donks]

ugggh it says i have to sign up to see it. no thanks!