On the" good attitude" -

[morri]

After reading a couple of blogs of ATI / similar cults survivors and leavers, I wondered if the Duggars have softened with the younger kids in regards of being strict(we know they are not exactly strict on the thriftyness and other topics.)

 

What I was wondering about was there importance for "the happy face" or "good attitude"

 

It seems to be very much existant with the older kids generally, but kids like Jennifer or jordyn are seen with a scowl or indfferent and defo not "good attitude" I wonder if they just let them be(in a certain frame) these days or if it is because ie Jenny is still an unbroken character and the moment that you only see "good attitude" pics of her is the point when she will have been broken.

[iknowright]

I think JimBob and Michelle are now consumed with the business and busyness of their brand to pay much attention to this aspect of ATI. They are very much about being mysterious about their involvement with ATI, but I think they keep it that way to make their lifestyle and ATI appear normal. Yet, they enjoy the followship they get from the ATI members. But I think they will not be able to be involved in cultivating the exact responses they want from the younger kids they way they focused on those responses from the older kids.

Just a hunch.

[jinseng]

Kelly Bates did mention that working with the younger kids in this way does fall by the wayside a lot more. Hence why a lot of her younger children are also quite expressive, and show their personalities. Within ATI now all the families openly admit they were competing with each other to appear to have the perfect children all lined up in a row and behaving perfectly. I think they have realised internally that this is a repulsive aspect of ATI, and are doing away with it, and the Duggars are demonstrating that their children are normal, and there is no longer the same expectation put on parents to train their children so strictly about things that do not matter.

[iknowright]

Kelly Bates did mention that working with the younger kids in this way does fall by the wayside a lot more. Hence why a lot of her younger children are also quite expressive, and show their personalities. Within ATI now all the families openly admit they were competing with each other to appear to have the perfect children all lined up in a row and behaving perfectly. I think they have realised internally that this is a repulsive aspect of ATI, and are doing away with it, and the Duggars are demonstrating that their children are normal, and there is no longer the same expectation put on parents to train their children so strictly about things that do not matter.

Oh, I don't think ATI will do away with "good countenance" and "first time obedience." That is the center of the entire dogma. I do believe Kelly means it is more difficult to work with the younger of so many kids, but especially so when you both parents are focusing on building a brand and marketing that brand the way the Bates and Duggars do. Other fundie ATI families are not able to market their family and so, yes the entire family still soaks up the dogma.

Even if some of the kids in the second generation try to go more mainstream, what they have been through affects their decision making skills so broadly, that even if their appearances change, it isn't all that easy to get out of the black and white thinking mode. Often when you see the second generation leave, they jump to the other extreme because extreme is all they know.

[Cleopatra7]

I think that JB and Michelle haven't really "loosen up" so much as they've plain "checked out." The younger kids (those after Josiah) are probably all a blur to them anyway, and they have the remaining J'slaves to deal with their day to day needs. It's sort of like how when a business starts out small that the owner has to do all the work, but once the business gets huge, the work gets delegated to others. As long as Jordyn and Jennifer keep their unhappiness to themselves and don't end up rebelling in some way later on, JB and Michelle could care less about their "counternances." And if they do get troublesome, there's always Journey to the Heart or some other IFB reeducation camp to keep them in line.

[morri]

Theres a bit of hope, that if this developed because they were mostly raised by sister moms then the sister moms wont use abusive technique on their biological offspring.

[SassyPants]

I think that JB and Michelle haven't really "loosen up" so much as they've plain "checked out." The younger kids (those after Josiah) are probably all a blur to them anyway, and they have the remaining J'slaves to deal with their day to day needs. It's sort of like how when a business starts out small that the owner has to do all the work, but once the business gets huge, the work gets delegated to others. As long as Jordyn and Jennifer keep their unhappiness to themselves and don't end up rebelling in some way later on, JB and Michelle could care less about their "counternances." And if they do get troublesome, there's always Journey to the Heart or some other IFB reeducation camp to keep them in line.

All else fails, send them to the home of a sister mom.

[marieantoinette]

I don't think jim Bob and Michelle purposely lightened up on the younger ones, it's just the women that actually raised them are starting to leave and now they are left unattended because they are more worried about their show and keeping the money rolling in

[Natalie22]

I think Kelly Bates was mentioning that they haven't spent as much time 'training' the younger ones as they did with the older ones. She said something like now that the older ones are marrying and moving out, she's starting to notice. I think it's probably influenced by the presence of the older ones. When the older ones were little, they needed to grow up faster and take on more chores so that the family could function. Since they're still there and responsible for those larger tasks, there is no need for the little ones to step up in the same way.

[calimojo]

I think Kelly Bates was mentioning that they haven't spent as much time 'training' the younger ones as they did with the older ones. She said something like now that the older ones are marrying and moving out, she's starting to notice. I think it's probably influenced by the presence of the older ones. When the older ones were little, they needed to grow up faster and take on more chores so that the family could function. Since they're still there and responsible for those larger tasks, there is no need for the little ones to step up in the same way.

I think you described it very well.. My sister's husband is from a large Catholic family that had 14 kids. They lived off the salary of the dad who was a factory worker. He was union so he made decent money, but of course with a family of 16 total, it was never enough. They had a small 3 bedroom house, and a back porch was converted into a 4th bedroom, although not well insulated, so in the winter the inhabitants of that room would just find a patch of floor to sleep on.

Anyway, the older half of the kids were all hard workers and did a lot around the house and with the younger kids. They weren't sister moms or Brother Dads, per se, but they definitely did a lot. They all worked outside the home as soon as they were old enough and contributed a small part of their salary to the overall family budget. The second half of the kids were definitely "Brattier" and just in general seemed to have more issues. They didn't do as well in school, (private Catholic) none were in a hurry to get jobs, and they had far fewer responsibilities around the house.

I think the Parents taught the older kids, but by the time the younger ones were old enough to help out, there just weren't that many chores left to do, since the older ones and Mom had them covered. His mom was a stay at home mom, and other than her kids, never had outside help, not even from a "grandma duggar type". She did most of the cooking and while the kids went to a private Catholic school until they went to Public Highschool, she helped them all with schoolwork etc. She had a college degree and had worked as a teacher for about year before she started popping out babies.

Now all the kids are grown of course and for the most part, they all turned out ok, though the younger set is definitely wilder and there have been some divorces sprinkled in and at least one teen pregnancy