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I think the one of the middle kids will make the break...


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iknowright

I don't we'll see big changes from Josh, Jill, or Jessa (although I can see her having big changes behind the scens but hiding it all).

 

I'd give the Duggars about five years and then watch one of the middle kids (like anywhere from 7-13 to make a break for possibly non-fundy/mainstream Christian. The ones 14-19 would still be too young I think.

 

I think Jana tows the line and marries quietly under courtship as well as John David. I don't think Jinger will flee to the big city. She seems ingrained. I don't expect all of the middle kids to make the break, but I think maybe at least two will start the ball rolling.

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sense and nonsense

I vote for Jeremiah/ Jedediah and below.

Even Josiah seems a little too convinced by the fundie life.

All those boys in the middle seem to me like they'll quietly fade out of the fundie lifestyle and settle as more modern Christians.

I think Jordyn and Jenny are going to have tough teenage years, finally break free, turn atheist and write a tell all book type thing because the gravy train is irresistible after all

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I still think Jinger or Joy could break free if either their husband pulled them away from being fundie or if something traumatic happened (divorce/death of a spouse that made them have to be independent). If one of the kids had a divorce or a real trial due to illness or death of a spouse I can see some of the younger ones looking around and wondering why they had been so ill prepared for life. Once one or two breaks free the rest could easily go as well. I think the fact that JB and Michelle are wealthy from the show/books/talks would make it harder for one of them to break free than it would be for a Bates. If something terrible happened to Derrick and he left Jill with five under five you can bet she will turn to her parents who would be more than happy to oblige with housing and funding. They said Leave and Cleave with Josh but then look how they helped him. And Josh married 6+ yrs ago, when the Duggars had no where near the money they have now.

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iknowright
I still think Jinger or Joy could break free if either their husband pulled them away from being fundie or if something traumatic happened (divorce/death of a spouse that made them have to be independent). If one of the kids had a divorce or a real trial due to illness or death of a spouse I can see some of the younger ones looking around and wondering why they had been so ill prepared for life. Once one or two breaks free the rest could easily go as well. I think the fact that JB and Michelle are wealthy from the show/books/talks would make it harder for one of them to break free than it would be for a Bates. If something terrible happened to Derrick and he left Jill with five under five you can bet she will turn to her parents who would be more than happy to oblige with housing and funding. They said Leave and Cleave with Josh but then look how they helped him. And Josh married 6+ yrs ago, when the Duggars had no where near the money they have now.

Great analogy. Of those I've seen leave this movement, most came from impoverished families who were depended upon manual labor for income. None came from wealthy families. The ties to money will make it much more difficult for any Duggar kid to leave the compound - even toward something that is simply more mainstream. If either Jinger or Joy breaks free, it will have to be with a husband who has some enlightening.

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Letgo

Does anyone know if there are statistics on which children tend to be the most likely to leave Gothardism or other cults? I can easily see oldest girls wanting out unless they are like Michaela or Jill and simply love children. I wonder if Jana is doing her own version of "rebellion" by not courting/marrying in order to escape a married life of raising endless children. There is an end in sight with raising her mother's children, plus, the longer she waits the fewer children she can have herself. And Michelle may be doing more with the children she has at home because there are no more babies to occupy her time.

I keep thinking it's going to be a younger child who breaks away from patriarchy. The younger children have had a far more open childhood, and a more affluent one. They have a better idea of life outside of Gothard. One of those younger girls just might decide she wants something else for herself.

If it is a middle child who leaves, please let it be Joy.

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silverspoons

If they never got the show I think more kids would leave but the money will keep most of them there. I grew up in a New England town and there was a lot of old money families. I knew so many kids that did not agree with their parents beliefs (about education, religion, marriage, lifestyle) but the kids would play the part to get the money. I knew kids that went to colleges they didn't like or majored in something they had little interest just to get an easy job with the family business. I knew kids that married and moved into a house their family built and they had little say in the house, location, or what they would be doing for work.

It will be the same with most of the Duggar kids. It will take a lot to walk from the security of money. So many people say the show is going to be cancelled or JB can't give a house to each kid but I don't believe this. The show will go on and while every kid will not get Jill's house, JB has enough to get each kid a Jessa house. How will James, Justin, Jason, or Jackson with no GED be able to turn down a free modest home and an income for doing basically nothing but be filmed or help dad with business? I think we will see a few kids years from now secretly use birth control or have cable tv, but who will really know, JB will still have the family smiling for the cameras buying used shoes.

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19 cats and counting

I think it's going to be one of the Howlers or Lost Girls that break. JB&M are getting older and they will wear out and not want to be as involved with the day to day as they once were (Michelle's already started). Also as the olders get married, a lot of the attention turns to the wedding (see Jill and Jessa) and there will be things lost in the shuffle.

Wait until puberty hormones hit the Lost Girls.

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fabkiwi06

You gotta figure the Howlers and Lost Girls see their older siblings as their parents more than JB & Michelle. Josie might be the exception.

It'll be interesting to see which buddy groups stick together (like Jill's seems to be doing still) and which fall apart after a marriage (Jessa's?)

I think the youngers will have better childhood opportunities - travel and hands on experiences - but they're screwed in a few years when the show is over an nobody cares. And that will turn at least one of them out of Gothardism.

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mstee

I can't imagine being one of the kids that wants to leave but feels stuck. I imagine they hardly ever have much money on hand (the kids) and a family debit card is used for purchases and purchases are tracked. And you can't discuss wanting to leave with a sibling, even one you really trust, because they will most likey go tell mom and dad. That has to be one of the loneliest feelings in the world. It will really take a brave soul to walk out on the family and start from scratch. It would be a lot easier to slowly leave fundamentalism with a husband or wife and not make a giant leap. I hope one day that a kid that feels that way will leave, and hopefully they will recieve outside help.

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Does anyone know if there are statistics on which children tend to be the most likely to leave Gothardism or other cults? I can easily see oldest girls wanting out unless they are like Michaela or Jill and simply love children. I wonder if Jana is doing her own version of "rebellion" by not courting/marrying in order to escape a married life of raising endless children. There is an end in sight with raising her mother's children, plus, the longer she waits the fewer children she can have herself. And Michelle may be doing more with the children she has at home because there are no more babies to occupy her time.

I keep thinking it's going to be a younger child who breaks away from patriarchy. The younger children have had a far more open childhood, and a more affluent one. They have a better idea of life outside of Gothard. One of those younger girls just might decide she wants something else for herself.

If it is a middle child who leaves, please let it be Joy.

I took a Sociology of Religion class and my professor taught us that cults usually die in the second generation- so there is hope!

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I think the first one to leave will be one who marries a husband (or wife) who grew up in a more mainstream culture. They'll just gradually watch more television, go to weddings with drinking and dancing, little things that we take for granted and like a small wedge, they'll gradually get away from the Gothard rules. I think it may be happening with Josh and Anna.

I wonder though, if Jill and Jessa are actually following those rules now that they're married. I can't see either husband swallowing the whole thing hook-line-and sinker without question.

Plus, lets face it, it is going to be a lot more fun out of the parents house, able to make your own decisions, with your husband who isn't bound by what Bill Gothard dictates.

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SassyPants

I took a Sociology of Religion class and my professor taught us that cults usually die in the second generation- so there is hope!

D/T lack of funding. Undereducated, brainwashed, fearful people usually do not have many marketable skills.

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drivingmishcrazy

I'm hoping for Joy and Josiah, if any of the older kids make a break for it, I'm betting on them, but I think there's more hope from Jackson on down. I personally think Josie could end up the wild one of the bunch, but that's just me.

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clueliss

any of the howlers from the twins through Jackson. JB is going to misplace someone trying to keep all that Nike hormone under control and to get them all a 'job' that will support a family. He's got 3 older daughters to marry off. JD to move along plus Joe and Josiah. And let's not forget what is his job again? Ben the son in law apparently on the family dole.

So that string of howlers could make a run for it. And with Josie the miracle child keeping mommy and daddy's sometime attention. Oh yeah

And Jenny is still writing the tell all.

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I don't we'll see big changes from Josh, Jill, or Jessa (although I can see her having big changes behind the scens but hiding it all).

I'd give the Duggars about five years and then watch one of the middle kids (like anywhere from 7-13 to make a break for possibly non-fundy/mainstream Christian. The ones 14-19 would still be too young I think.

I think Jana tows the line and marries quietly under courtship as well as John David. I don't think Jinger will flee to the big city. She seems ingrained. I don't expect all of the middle kids to make the break, but I think maybe at least two will start the ball rolling.

I agree. I really don't think (in spite of all they've done to tow the Goddard line) that JB and Michelle will even be able to hold the reins tight enough. I especially think the married Bates kids will impact this, as they have shown signs that the very same path will not be walked with their own families (both Erin and Allysa have said something along these lines.) As the Duggars see Kelly and Gil accepting their children's decisions to be less rigid, I think JB will let down his guard a little (he doesn't really have as much choice as he thinks he does anyway; look at Jessa frontal huggin' Ben on their engagement, and them holding hands for prayer pre-engagement, or Jill front hugging Derick when he came back from Napal. Little cracks in their "perfect" control of their children.)

I think the word is still out on Jinger. It may depend on how long it takes for her to enter a courtship. If, by then, Jessa and/or Jill have shown that they (like the Bates') are doing life less rigidly than how they were raised, then I think Jinger just *might* take a lesson from the Bates' and her sisters, and be truer to her own dreams. We shall see.

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Also, when the TLC bank roll stops, I think the chances of one of the kids deciding, "I don't want to adhere to a strict, fundie-heavy Gothard-washed way of life. I want to live my life THIS way and I'm going to do so" will go way up. I really think even JB and Michelle may let their "adhere to" guard down just a bit (I think they're s-l-o-w-l-y already realizing they're going to HAVE to.)

ETA: and that's due, in part, to the fall of the Gothard mind-control empire.

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Maggie Mae

The other day there was a commercial where they asked the kids what they thought Jill was having. One kid said "a kid." I bet that one will leave. He might not be the first, but I bet he'll be one of the ones to move somewhere out west and only see the family on holidays.

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I always thought that joy would be filled with resentment and leave because she was in an awkward spot (couldn't be with the girls or boys) but now she's an official J'slave so she a seems more included. Then I thought Siah would leave but the reprogramming has gone well. Maybe it would be Jinger. Jill stopped the big city plan but Jill is now gone. Yes she is jessas bestie but jessa was a bit headstrong herself and according to some posters Michelle's least favorite daughter.

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DefrauderDaughter

I definitely think the Lost Girls will be among the first to leave. My money is on Jennifer and Jordyn to make a break for it. With technology being more available everyday, they'll be able to make informed decisions at a younger age than the older kids and that'll probably be the deciding factor in one or more of the kids leaving.

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IMO, few, if any, will end up a Gothardite for life.

I totally agree. I think most will remain Christian and conservative, but for example, just being open to having ginormous weddings at mega churches speaks volumes to how the appeal of "worldliness" has slipped into JB's head as the TLC $$$ has been slipping into his pockets.

Pre-TLC, I don't think JB Duggar would have EVER supported having a non home church style wedding. I get that the mega church was needed for sheer numbers (based on quiverfull family sizes but based even more on acquaintances made through years of having a TLC show). No matter the reason, JB compromised. All the attention (not TLC, but rather the hoopla and the mainstream contemporary mega Christian church facility) would not have been a welcome "guest" in JBs patriarchal world pre-TLC. And now, the kids are tasting bigger and bigger bites of a more contemporary Christian life. And I believe they are liking what they taste.

I'm thinking, that like a particular craft era (you know, macrame, painted foam head dolls on spray painted book page dresses, tole painting, cross stitch, etc.), this "era" of uber conservative "bake my own bread, wear matching home school family outfits, be in the world but not of it, quiverfull, partriarchy, daughters at home" Christianity is going to wind down. Disappear? Doubtful (a la cults like the Church of Wells always popping up). But with the downfall of their leader, Gothard, and with the downfall of their business partner in crime, Phillips, the shockwave (I believe) is leveling their take on Christianity. It's an era that I believe is going to come to a trickle.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Freefundies

I think it will be one of the howlers or lost girls. The boys/girls who are 13 and up are fundied in and tiedyed in the koolaid. Now that Jill, Jessa and Joseph are out of the house, and possibility of Josiah coming up (not to mention JD probably isn't home much either) maybe by end of 2015, that is a lot fewer eyes watching the rest of the brood. If any of them are going to break away and rebel then to me the howlers and lost girls have the best chance of doing so.

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txmommyof4

I used to think Joy would be one to rebel and break away. Unfortunately, she seems to have changed drastically. She went from seeming like a fairly sensitive young lady sad with her situation to a nasty, bitter young lady eager to dominate those around her. I think she will end up making Jessa's bitchiness seem mild by comparison in the coming years. I think she will stay at the Duggar compound and rule whatever children remain (regardless of age) with an iron fist. I can easily picture her as a mean and angry old spinster woman.

I really believe, as each new set of marrieds go through life, their views will change and absolutely none will come even close to 19 kids. The only possibility, I think, is Jessa to throw a great big middle finger at Michelle and no other reason. So in a way, I think they will almost all break away.

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MisUndrstd

Personally, I think it will be Jana. Yes, I said Jana. I can totally see Jana breaking lose and going to nursing school and becoming a very good L&D nurse. I think that is where her heart lies and since she has not made a commitment to enter into a courtship I think she is just lying low until the right time comes a long to announce to JB and J'chelle that she has enrolled into the nursing program at the community college. From there she will meet a nice Christian boy at the community college, work L&D and actually find comfort and freedom in wearing scrubs and crocs daily. Others will follow her lead, including Jennifer and possibly even Jordyn.

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