Nattie Darnell is running for office!

[thoughtful]

Darnell can even make criticizing Sarah Palin unpalatable! Did you know she was Queen Vashti?

From 2008:

Sarah Palin: A Modern Queen Vashti?

In this way, if Sarah Palin rises to the Vice Presidency, a position of authority over men, her example will make impressions on the minds of the culture just as the Medo-Persian Empire recognized would happen after Queen Vashti’s disobedience in the book of Esther. If you remember that story, you will recall that Queen Vashti defied the order of her husband the King. The King’s royal council of advisors correctly observed that her disobedience would have repercussions beyond that single event.

The advisors proclaimed this warning in Esther 1:16-18: ““Queen Vashti has not only wronged the king, but also all the princes, and all the people who are in all the provinces of King Ahasuerus. For the queen’s behavior will become known to all women, so that they will despise their husbands in their eyes, when they report, ‘King Ahasuerus commanded Queen Vashti to be brought in before him, but she did not come.’ This very day the noble ladies of Persia and Media will say to all the king’s officials that they have heard of the behavior of the queen. Thus there will be excessive contempt and wrath.â€

If Sarah Palin becomes Vice President, America will see a new searing of the consciences of Christians. Why? For the first time in America’s history, women and little girls will have a woman serving as our Vice President set before them as a role model. As a result, we should expect that many more women will despise their husbands. Many will despise the role of genuine Christian motherhood, and from then on it will be that much harder to convince a little girl that aspiring to be a “keeper-at-home†and “helpmeet†to a husband is the most noble office she can attain as a woman. The allure of Sarah Palin’s “success†as a magistrate, usurping authority over men—as Queen Vashti did—will, in all likelihood, lead many women astray.

perseveronews.com/in-america-more-women-rule-the-roost-says-usa-today/

[DomWackTroll]

Man, the 2008 election was soooo fun for any Dominionism "fans." Doug Phillips (anti-Palin) vs. James McDonald (pro-Palin)-- does it get any better?

[formergothardite]

the first time in America’s history, women and little girls will have a woman serving as our Vice President set before them as a role model. As a result, we should expect that many more women will despise their husbands.

Yes Nattie knows women so well. If Sarah Palin had made it as VP I would have totally started hating my husband. :roll:

[Cleopatra7]

Darnell can even make criticizing Sarah Palin unpalatable! Did you know she was Queen Vashti?

From 2008:

perseveronews.com/in-america-more-women-rule-the-roost-says-usa-today/

The bolded part makes me laugh. Sarah Palin is a threat because there have been no female role models before or since her. :lol: :pink-shock:

[ThisOlGirl]

Every time someone calls Nathaniel Nattie, I think of that old movie The Journey of Natty Gann. I don't remember much about the movie, but our Nattie would definitely not approve of a mere vagina-haver striking out on her own.

[formergothardite]

So did anyone in the Vision Forum crowd ever confront Nathaniel about the overt racism in his book?

I guess we shall never find out if anyone in the VF crowd pointed out the racism in Nattie's book. :think: Perhaps VF members were wee bit more racist than CnD would like to admit. Nattie seems to be proud of this book, he brags about it on Persevero. :? That book will not help his political career at all.

I've been scrolling through his blog posts and FB page and he is completely unlikable. I realize that he was raised in VF which gave him a warped view of history and an inflated sense of his own intelligence, but I can't muster up any sympathy for him. He is just obnoxious, racist and for someone who wants to control women's, bodies he sure doesn't seem to know much about them. How did no one tell him that women don't feel tiny kicks in their bosoms?! :lol:

[salex]

does he know what a bosom is?

[formergothardite]

Either he does not know what a bosom is or he doesn't know where pregnancy takes place in a woman's body. Either way, somebody should have pulled him aside to explain it to him. And while they were doing that, they should have also explained the racism in his book.

[WonderingInWA]

Part of me wonders if he was told by some other "expert" that when babies kick in the womb, it creates some sort of tingling sensation in the mother's breasts. It doesn't (or at least it didn't with me either time I was pregnant), but there is so much misinformation in his culture, who knows? But, when you write a book or any other published piece of writing, you have to check your facts, and he clearly didn't do that. No wonder the gal he was courting dumped him. She must have been worried sick about his knowledge of the way human bodies work!

[PrairieGirl]

Every time someone calls Nathaniel Nattie, I think of that old movie The Journey of Natty Gann. I don't remember much about the movie, but our Nattie would definitely not approve of a mere vagina-haver striking out on her own.

I remember seeing that movie when I was about 13. It was the first time I had ever seen John Cusack, and he gave me a funny feeling in my loins.

[CloakNDagger]

I guess we shall never find out if anyone in the VF crowd pointed out the racism in Nattie's book. :think: Perhaps VF members were wee bit more racist than CnD would like to admit. Nattie seems to be proud of this book, he brags about it on Persevero. :? That book will not help his political career at all.

I've been scrolling through his blog posts and FB page and he is completely unlikable. I realize that he was raised in VF which gave him a warped view of history and an inflated sense of his own intelligence, but I can't muster up any sympathy for him. He is just obnoxious, racist and for someone who wants to control women's, bodies he sure doesn't seem to know much about them. How did no one tell him that women don't feel tiny kicks in their bosoms?! :lol:

1) I wouldn't know, as I never had the time to read his work of fiction and 2) maybe some were. I just know that some of us did have a hand in for instance pulling Henty and other books off the shelves that we did realize WERE racist after having read them. NO one had time to read all of the stuff there, and I doubt Doug Phillips is a Tool read Darnell's book all the way through.

[formergothardite]

Would most people in the VF crowd view that as racist and where do you think Nathaniel got this racist view point? I suspect that being raised to view the South as the good, godly guys probably played into it. And didn't VF support Rushdoony?

[Marian the Librarian]

Would most people in the VF crowd view that as racist and where do you think Nathaniel got this racist view point? I suspect that being raised to view the South as the good, godly guys probably played into it. And didn't VF support Rushdoony?

I have no doubt there were multiple streams of racist influence among the VF crowd. Our Nattie takes great joy in the fact that his parents were married by Jerry Falwell, who (among many other things) founded Liberty Christian Academy. Per Wikipedia:

During the 1950s and 1960s, Falwell spoke and campaigned against the U.S. civil rights activist Martin Luther King, Jr. and the racial desegregation of public school systems by the U.S. federal government. Liberty Christian Academy (LCA, founded as Lynchburg Christian Academy) is a Christian school in Lynchburg, Virginia, which was described in 1966 by the Lynchburg News as "a private school for white students."

Falwell also called Desmond Tutu a "phony," blamed the 9/11 attacks on "the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians," and accused Teletubby Tinky-Winky of being a secretly gay icon for children.

Such a fine role model! :roll:

[formergothardite]

It just seems to me like there was such an undercurrent of racism running through VF that most people wouldn't have blinked an eye at the racism in Nathaniel's book and that he learned to be racist through the teachings of VF.

[CloakNDagger]

It just seems to me like there was such an undercurrent of racism running through VF that most people wouldn't have blinked an eye at the racism in Nathaniel's book and that he learned to be racist through the teachings of VF.

Maybe, maybe not. Like I said, I have personal knowledge of books removed because they WERE recognized as racist and different people with whom I agreed with had them taken out of our inventory. Maybe that "colors" my thinking too much. We did have a strong Southern influence at the office, but we also had some staunch Yankees from Iowa and New Jersey that weren't so much on board with the rah rah Southern stuff. Dr. Jehle up in Plymouth seems to me to be a more genuine good guy just sucked into the VF world and he was DEFINITELY not a Southerner and gave his perspective to people on why the South was wrong.

[formergothardite]

Would that have been removed? Would Darnell's book have been viewed as racist to most of the people who read it?

[CloakNDagger]

Would that have been removed? Would Darnell's book have been viewed as racist to most of the people who read it?

I don't know. It seems to me that the book was a shoe-in for the catalog not because it was that great, but as a favor to a friend. Kind of like some other products we had.

[formergothardite]

If you had read that book, would you have requested it be removed because it was racist and do you think they would have removed it? Or do you think because it was "favor for a friend" the racism would have been allowed to remain?

[CloakNDagger]

If you had read that book, would you have requested it be removed because it was racist and do you think they would have removed it? Or do you think because it was "favor for a friend" the racism would have been allowed to remain?

First, I wouldn't have read the book, just like I wouldn't have read Elsie Dinsmore. So that's not a possibility. As a favor for a friend it might have remained. There were some other books that one of the more fervent staff members thought was not orthodox enough, or actually had doctrinal issues in them, and they remained because of friendships as well. Honestly, there was a lot of schizophrenia / stupidity / patronage / nepotistic stuff there.

[halcionne]

Bosom is poetry for lady parts u guise COME ON

because Natty and the VFers are sensitive artistes

[salex]

Bosom is poetry for lady parts u guise COME ON

because Natty and the VFers are sensitive artistes

And a Movie Maker-- which raises the question, does he ever Think of Pussy Galore?

[thoughtful]

I just know that some of us did have a hand in for instance pulling Henty and other books off the shelves that we did realize WERE racist after having read them. NO one had time to read all of the stuff there, and I doubt Doug Phillips is a Tool read Darnell's book all the way through.

Doug and his staff were writing and purchasing books to sell, representing the VF life and philosophy. I don't think "nobody could read it all" is much of an excuse.

As for the Henty books being pulled, when was that? And what were the other books pulled? Were they sold at markdown, or just dumped?

Just for the record, and for anyone who isn't aware, here is some history of the Henty books on VF.

From Doug's blog in 2004:

vftonline.org/XianAnarch/cause/bush/www.visionforum.com/hottopics/blogs/dwp/2004_10_01_index.htm

A big Henty sale:

Here is a book about the Henty books, by Bill Potter, VF's historian:

graceandtruthbooks.com/product/the-boys-guide-to-the-historical-adventures-of-ga-henty

HSLDA recommending Henty, with VF as the source, in 2012 (scroll down to #2):

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerqu ... ainstream/

Not that the Henty books, Darnell's book or, for that matter, Elsie Dinsmore were the only offensive writings coming out of VF, but, since we seem to be on the topic of racism, I'd like to know when the Henty stuff was pulled, if Doug or other VF higher-ups ever spoke out against them, etc.

[Palimpsest]

I'm not in the least surprised that Nattie D. has thrown his hat officially into the political arena. It was only a matter of time. All his career choices have indicated that ambition.

I'm also very afraid that he will get elected District Chair. I know sod all about GA GOP politics, but I think District Chairs are elected by county or city chairs. So it won't be the general public electing him, but party officials who he's schmoosed with for years. Nattie knows his audience and they will probably lap up all the things we mock and criticize him for. Some of the Theonomist stuff might give a couple of Party Faithfuls pause if they read Nattie's wilder rantings, but I seriously doubt it. Sorry to be such a downer on this.

On VF and racism: VF attracted a lot of quite diverse Fundies and Fundie-lites. Some or most of them may not have noticed or been sensitive to the institutionalized racism promulgated by many of the VF products, not just Darnell's unfortunate book. Probably a lot of the more naive followers decided that VF wasn't - just couldn't be! - racist because it didn't have in-your-face hate speech, Voddie Baucham was involved and Spanky Sproul and others adopted black children.

As an aside, I own an 8" Tinky Winky complete with purse wearing a "the Moral Majority in Neither" button on his chest. I used to have him sitting on a shelf at work. :twisted:

[Palimpsest]

Would most people in the VF crowd view that as racist and where do you think Nathaniel got this racist view point? I suspect that being raised to view the South as the good, godly guys probably played into it. And didn't VF support Rushdoony?

Not really, or rather not officially, as far as I know. It probably attracted a lot of Rushdooneyites but DP himself was careful to appear inclusive, IMO. I think it was one of those uneasy alliances on "some" doctrinal Patriarchal things. When the scandal broke, a Chalcedony spokesman (I'd have to look up his name) published a long rant about DP's doctrinal failings. Also Peter Kershaw TW Eston ranted against both DP and RC Sproul for not being racist enough, if you remember.

I'm not sure where Darnell gets his racism from but he is definitely running with the wrong crowd and veering in the Kinist direction. Again, IMO.

[MamaJunebug]

Maybe, maybe not. Like I said, I have personal knowledge of books removed because they WERE recognized as racist and different people with whom I agreed with had them taken out of our inventory. Maybe that "colors" my thinking too much. We did have a strong Southern influence at the office, but we also had some staunch Yankees from Iowa and New Jersey that weren't so much on board with the rah rah Southern stuff. Dr. Jehle up in Plymouth seems to me to be a more genuine good guy just sucked into the VF world and he was DEFINITELY not a Southerner and gave his perspective to people on why the South was wrong.

"Dr. Jehle in Plymouth"---would that be Nick Jehle who used to comment quite a lot on the ServenClan blog when Rebecca wrote it?