Bringing Up Bates & Bates Family Doings: Part 2

[LovelyLuna]

I really wish this show was online. It isn’t at the few sketchy webisites I go to watch other stuff :shifty-kitty:

Tori and a Dugger boy....... that would be snark worthy TV for sure.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I really wish this show was online. It isn’t at the few sketchy webisites I go to watch other stuff :shifty-kitty:

Tori and a Dugger boy....... that would be snark worthy TV for sure.

Probably why it isn't available--they don't want snark and reporting on things that are restaged or misrepresented!

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

Just started watching this show on DirectTV On Demand and it's a very interesting look into the Bates Family. I thought it was very interesting to see both Kelly and Gil's parents and how normal they seem. Sounds like both sets of grandparents were at least middle class and had some sort of education. I thought it was interesting that Gil's mother was a nurse. I really wonder if Gil and Kelly even realize none of their daughters could qualify for nursing school with their current education. Also, Kelly's mother lives in a very nice home and seemed to really want a closer relationship with her grandkids.

I definitely agree that Alyssa is enjoying being away from the family. She already got her ears pierced, that is a huge step out of fundieland! I had to crack up at her baking cookies with her husband's niece and nephew- they were frozen break and bake cookies.

I think Whitney and Zach are a cute couple- just hope they don't have a bunch of kids too fast. Also, I really don't care for Michael's boyfriend Brandon-he just came off as really condescending. The first thing he said when she surprised him was, "Well you're a good liar....".

Chad is just adorable! I hope that his father being an MD will help him understand the serious nature of Erin's clotting disorder. I really hope Erin will have her baby in a hospital and go for the epidural! There is no $10,000 prize for toughing it out. My mom had all her kids naturally, but when she told that to my sister's OBGYN he just said, "Well, I think you're crazy!" haha!

[Georgiana]

On last weeks show, they both said they wanted a lot of kids....

I've always felt differently about Zach/Whit having a large family than I do about the others. Mainly, because I feel that Whit genuinely wants a large family.

For most of the now-grown kids we see here, a large family is an expectation. They are never really given the opportunity to think critically about how many children they want because their community condemns that as sinful. They are never truly educated on their options for controlling their fertility. And for the women especially, they are not given the skills to have any other role in life besides stay home and pop out babies. They really don't get to "choose" to have a large family in the way most people do. It is either "have a large family or rebel". Yes, some of them have indicated they may not have large families, but they risk losing friends and being criticized publicly because of it.

Whit wasn't raised in this lifestyle though. She has/had options. She has/had education. When she indicates she wants a large family, that is a decision she made freely with other options being equally available and accessible. I think for Whit, coming from a troubled home, a large, close family is probably something she wanted growing up. Also, when she was given stability in her adopted home, it was a large one. Large family life is probably something she associates with happiness and security. I can see WHY she would be attracted to having a large family, and if that's what she says she wants, I believe her...unlike the Duggar girls, who I don't believe really have the option to say/do otherwise at least until TLC ends.

[Dandruff]

Chad is just adorable! I hope that his father being an MD will help him understand the serious nature of Erin's clotting disorder. I really hope Erin will have her baby in a hospital and go for the epidural! There is no $10,000 prize for toughing it out. My mom had all her kids naturally, but when she told that to my sister's OBGYN he just said, "Well, I think you're crazy!" haha!

I'm not a doctor, but can't imagine Erin not giving birth in a hospital. Since she's taking medicine to keep her blood thin, and giving birth involves blood, I would think she'd need to be closely monitored. Does anyone know how it works when someone with her disorder and treatment is getting close to their due date? When can the heparin be tapered or stopped? Would the birth be scheduled?

[LovelyLuna]

Whit wasn't raised in this lifestyle though. She has/had options. She has/had education. When she indicates she wants a large family, that is a decision she made freely with other options being equally available and accessible. I think for Whit, coming from a troubled home, a large, close family is probably something she wanted growing up. Also, when she was given stability in her adopted home, it was a large one. Large family life is probably something she associates with happiness and security. I can see WHY she would be attracted to having a large family, and if that's what she says she wants, I believe her...unlike the Duggar girls, who I don't believe really have the option to say/do otherwise at least until TLC ends.

good point. I wouldn’t mind a large family. I also love to cook, bake, sew crochet, garden and someday I want chickens. problem is she will be raising them in a cult, with baby beating. unless they end up fundie light or mainstream, which is unlikely, Whits large brood will not have happiness or security.

edit: riffles

[Georgiana]

I'm not a doctor, but can't imagine Erin not giving birth in a hospital. Since she's taking medicine to keep her blood thin, and giving birth involves blood, I would think she'd need to be closely monitored. Does anyone know how it works when someone with her disorder and treatment is getting close to their due date? When can the heparin be tapered or stopped? Would the birth be scheduled?

Chad has said that Erin is considered to be a "high risk" pregnancy. No midwife/doula would take on a high risk client unless they agreed to a physician attended hospital birth. Chad and Erin don't seem like the type to take unnecessary risks with this birth, especially since they already have indicated that they will be listening to medical advice rather than trying to have as many kids as possible. Their focus seems to be healthy mom and healthy baby.

Also, I am not sure Erin would be under any pressure to homebirth. Kelly had many hospital births, and Whit's low-risk birth was in the hospital. The Bates seem to be fine with hospital births.

[Coconut Flan]

I was going to post that Erin had immediately risked out of a homebirth. I doubt they gave it a second's thought.

While Zach seemed ready to begin working on number two, Whitney seemed like she wanted to wait a bit. Her idea of a large family may be considerably less than 19. :)

Since Michelle had so many hospital deliveries and Anna had originally planned on a hospital delivery with Kynzie, I wonder why the switch with Anna and Jill. Jill I can more easily understand since she was in midwife training.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

good point. I wouldn’t mind a large family. I also love to cook, bake, sew crochet, garden and someday I want chickens. problem is she will be raising them in a cult, with baby beating. unless they end up fundie light or mainstream, which is unlikely, Whits large brood will not have happiness or security.

edit: riffles

It's a lot to assume

1. That she won't have happiness or security in her family

2. That they're going to beat their children.

3. That Zach even wants to raise his children the same way he was raised.

[Kak]

I've always thought Josiah and Tori would be cute together. And, hasn't Josiah been spotted with the Bateses and Joseph a few times (not including the mission trip)?

I doubt that Joe is living with the Bateses AND courting a Bates because college rules strictly prohibit that. BUT Josiah might be his "accountability partner" and courting Tori.

I've not been able to see the Bates' show, but I'd also prefer Josiah and Tori, just cause I like them both. I don't think the college rules about courting necessarily mean it's not Joseph and Tori though. Alyssa for one had some kind of pre-courtship deal, which I think was the same thing as a courtship, they just didn't call it that. Alyssa must have been 17? then, so maybe it was an age thing. The rules are bendable when it suits you!

[Georgiana]

Personally, I think Zach and Whit are going to stray further than most people expect.

First, I think Zach became somewhat disillusioned with the lifestyle after his failed courtship. I don't think he wants to raise his kids the way he ways raised, especially in terms of the isolation/restriction from the mainstream world. I think we have hints of this because they ARE planning on letting their children watch TV and exposing them to things like Winnie the Pooh.

Secondly, I think because Whit isn't from the ATI set, she's less likely to want to do things like homeschool, etc. The girls like Erin, Jessa, and Jill I can see wanting to homeschool because that's how they learned how to raise kids. However, Whit was mainstream educated, and I can see her not being sold on homeschooling or at least wanting her kids to participate in the outside activities she enjoyed growing up. And I think this goes along with Zach wanting his kids to be less isolated than he was.

Honestly, I see Zach and Whit as conservative Christians. Very conservative Christians, even. However, I don't see them doing ATI/IBLP. And even if they do homeschool, I think they'll still belong to a brick and mortar Church and participate in social activities that way.

[nelliebelle1197]

Chad has said that Erin is considered to be a "high risk" pregnancy. No midwife/doula would take on a high risk client unless they agreed to a physician attended hospital birth. Chad and Erin don't seem like the type to take unnecessary risks with this birth, especially since they already have indicated that they will be listening to medical advice rather than trying to have as many kids as possible. Their focus seems to be healthy mom and healthy baby.

Also, I am not sure Erin would be under any pressure to homebirth. Kelly had many hospital births, and Whit's low-risk birth was in the hospital. The Bates seem to be fine with hospital births.

Really? Because Carri from the old Carri Me Away blog certainly found one and it led to stillbirth and lots of horror. I think what you mean is no DECENT midwife. Carri's midwife is still open for business.

[nokidsmom]

Personally, I think Zach and Whit are going to stray further than most people expect.

First, I think Zach became somewhat disillusioned with the lifestyle after his failed courtship. I don't think he wants to raise his kids the way he ways raised, especially in terms of the isolation/restriction from the mainstream world. I think we have hints of this because they ARE planning on letting their children watch TV and exposing them to things like Winnie the Pooh.

Secondly, I think because Whit isn't from the ATI set, she's less likely to want to do things like homeschool, etc. The girls like Erin, Jessa, and Jill I can see wanting to homeschool because that's how they learned how to raise kids. However, Whit was mainstream educated, and I can see her not being sold on homeschooling or at least wanting her kids to participate in the outside activities she enjoyed growing up. And I think this goes along with Zach wanting his kids to be less isolated than he was.

Honestly, I see Zach and Whit as conservative Christians. Very conservative Christians, even. However, I don't see them doing ATI/IBLP. And even if they do homeschool, I think they'll still belong to a brick and mortar Church and participate in social activities that way.

My money has always been on Zach going more mainstream though I think he will become a conservative Christian. I don't think he has a problem with conservative beliefs, just the lifestyle. But agree that the failed courtship was a real wake up call for him. He was raised to believe that a courtship would work out, that he wouldn't be giving away pieces of his heart, that he would have a wife. To have it not work out had to have been a huge shock, this was not how it was supposed to work and on top of it all, he's hurting just as much as if he had dated, perhaps even more so because courtship by definition carries a lot of big expectations.

In addition, he met Whit at a fast food restaurant, in an environment where he was not looking, it was a chance thing just as many couples often meet. He probably found through this experience that one doesn't have to go through this courtship formality to find someone and things could probably develop a lot more naturally. So I think it was the failed courtship plus the experience of getting to know Whit outside courtship confines.

I do see Erin and Chad towing the ATI line except for the family planning given Erin's issues. But outside of that one thing, I see them as sticking with the lifestyle.

Alyssa seems to be enjoying her freedom and I suspect she's going to go the conservative Christian route also. Out of the three married so far, she's been the one surprise for me. I was a bit shocked that she was marrying so young and thought that she would completely tow the line, but now I see she might not and she knew exactly what she was doing by marrying when she did. I think she was faking it until she made it.

[FundieFarmer]

My money has always been on Zach going more mainstream though I think he will become a conservative Christian. I don't think he has a problem with conservative beliefs, just the lifestyle. But agree that the failed courtship was a real wake up call for him. He was raised to believe that a courtship would work out, that he wouldn't be giving away pieces of his heart, that he would have a wife. To have it not work out had to have been a huge shock, this was not how it was supposed to work and on top of it all, he's hurting just as much as if he had dated, perhaps even more so because courtship by definition carries a lot of big expectations.

In addition, he met Whit at a fast food restaurant, in an environment where he was not looking, it was a chance thing just as many couples often meet. He probably found through this experience that one doesn't have to go through this courtship formality to find someone and things could probably develop a lot more naturally. So I think it was the failed courtship plus the experience of getting to know Whit outside courtship confines.

I do see Erin and Chad towing the ATI line except for the family planning given Erin's issues. But outside of that one thing, I see them as sticking with the lifestyle.

Alyssa seems to be enjoying her freedom and I suspect she's going to go the conservative Christian route also. Out of the three married so far, she's been the one surprise for me. I was a bit shocked that she was marrying so young and thought that she would completely tow the line, but now I see she might not and she knew exactly what she was doing by marrying when she did. I think she was faking it until she made it.

I agree. Alyssa got the hell out of dodge and promptly pierced her ears, wore pants, and threw on a sleeveless top. I think we'll find her pretty conservative, but without the total "long skirt or die" mentality. Who knows, maybe she'll even progress into a little bit more liberal thinking pertaining to religion as well.

[Firiel]

I agree. Alyssa got the hell out of dodge and promptly pierced her ears, wore pants, and threw on a sleeveless top. I think we'll find her pretty conservative, but without the total "long skirt or die" mentality. Who knows, maybe she'll even progress into a little bit more liberal thinking pertaining to religion as well.

Erin/Chad and Whitney/Zach have each already made more significant strides away from ATI/IBLP than Alyssa has, IMO. As others have pointed out, many ATI families are more liberal in their clothing choices. That's technically toeing the ATI line. Kissing before marriage, marrying an adoptee, and meeting outside of a family "set-up" (W/Z) is more "out there" according to ATI standards if I understand correctly. Family planning definitely is outside of the ATI guidelines, even in case of medical issues (E/C).

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I agree. Alyssa got the hell out of dodge and promptly pierced her ears, wore pants, and threw on a sleeveless top. I think we'll find her pretty conservative, but without the total "long skirt or die" mentality. Who knows, maybe she'll even progress into a little bit more liberal thinking pertaining to religion as well.

Wait, the Bates girls don't have pierced ears? I could have sworn I saw them with earrings before the weddings happened....

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Alyssa also doesn't post all the Jesus-y stuff like the Duggars do. Whit throws in a #blessed here and there and Erin is the one who is the most religious like.

[19 cats and counting]

Alyssa also doesn't post all the Jesus-y stuff like the Duggars do. Whit throws in a #blessed here and there and Erin is the one who is the most religious like.

I've noticed that too about her. Occasionally there's a church selfie with her husband but other than that, you can't even tell they are Christian (I've seen all stripes of life use #blessed). I've seen Erin and Zach (Whitney?) post religious stuff to their instagrams along with Lawson (still in the nest).

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I wonder how hard Alyssa is praying that Allie Jane shares a birthday with the new royal baby. She could be putting all her religious effort into that ;)

[clueliss]

Wait, the Bates girls don't have pierced ears? I could have sworn I saw them with earrings before the weddings happened....

Yes - in fact I noticed pierced ears, including Kelly, on the Q&A show.

[princessmahina]

I thought Kelly said they wore clip ons? I don't remember where though.

[Closed Womb]

So, did anyone out there do a double take when the boys did a house tour on the Q&A special and saw that Gil and Kelly's room was PINK? Not the bubble gum pink Erin picked, but still pink.

And, not sure if I've missed this in an old post, but does it bother anyone else that the intro is in reverse birth order EXCEPT for Michael and Alyssa? I mean, I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think this is accurate. It's the three married Bates "kids" that cap off the end (before Kelly Jo and Gil). This really bothers me, like Michael isn't an adult.

[justmy2cents]

I also noticed the pink bedroom and thought to myself 'so this is where Erin gets it from' :)

Kelly has said that they only wear clip-on earrings so that was Alyssa doing things her own way.

[zadie]

In regards to a Bates/Duggar courtship, I think the KIDS might want a courtship, and Kelly and Gil might want one, but I cannot see Boob and Michelle being okay with it. At least if it's Tori.

Someone compared her to Jessa, and while they are both outspoken, I think the difference is that Jessa pretends she is keeping sweet, so she just comes off very passive agressive and bitchy. Which is, ironically, acceptable in their opinion.

For example, when Michelle was trying to give Jessa advice about the wedding and Jessa was like "yeah whatever" about it all. She didn't outright say "mom leave me alone" but everything about her tone of voice and attitude projected that.

If Tori was in that situation, I can see her going "yeah well it's my wedding not yours." Which would drive Michelle bonkers.

To be clear, I like both Jessa and Tori and I think considering their circumstances, it is good that they show some spark of life, even if it means they come off as rude. Sometimes you have to be "rude."

If it at all increases their chances of getting out of there, I am all for it.

[clueliss]

I thought Kelly said they wore clip ons? I don't remember where though.

Could have been clip on. The one giant dangly pair one of the girls had on was hard to miss (Might have been Katie).