Jim Bob`s hypocrisy

[Nellie]

VelociRapture your words do make sence and I feel somewhat relieved that JB will only have to fund 9 weddings instead of 20. still, me being a teacher, I feel stunned by this lack of education more than anything else in this strange family. and its not like Im a snob who thinks that people with no College Degreee are worthless or anything. in the US especially quite a few ppl manage to become successfull without any post secondary education, plus College in the US is really expensive (here in Germany University is free and so are most trade schools - some even provide financial help to their students). Its just that I always felt such a huge amount of respect to those ppl who had to go through hardships, poverty and other obstacles in life and still got to learn a trade or get a Degree and became professionals that I simply cant understand or justify JB throwing money around on planes, weddings and such while his own kids, even boys have no formal education and are not prepared for living in the real world. I just dont get it. their whole life revolves around Jesus and they encourage others to live the same way, with homeschooling and all that but how is that even possible? if all ppl in the US would become uneducated, ignorant fundies who believe in creationism and know nothing about evolution, if all women would only be Godly midwives at uncerticified birthing centers than who on earth would havethe qualifications to save baby Josie and other preenies from dying? especially if all the men would be running their own car lots and working at grocery stores as well as spending the rest of their time reading the Bible? who could be the lawyer, the doctor, the accountant, the professional pilot? without college education would there be any fundie teachers to put together all those online curricula for hoemschooled kids? its not so much the lack of Degrees that piss me off (I dont really judge anyone on that) its more the lack of respect towards education and its importance that the Duggars constantly display and promote.

Sending JD to a professional school that educates pilots (or policemen or whatever else he chose to be) would have been cheaper than buying him that plane. just saying

[Four is Enough]

Even with all the attendees, there is NO WAY either of those weddings cost Jim Bob $20,000 each. First of all, they had the receptions OUTSIDE. No chairs to put away, very little in the way of food or refreshment... bull puckey.

I agree that TLC and People probably both paid for "exclusives" from each wedding, and that they were probably entirely paid for by TLC and People.

I also agree with the poster who said that putting money aside for the children's college fund is important... and Mr. Four and I are VERY glad we did just that. Education is FAR more important than a spectacle wedding.

[Nic]

Nellie, what you are describing is the Duggars dream world.

[KittenMitten]

You know? I'm stuck on why so many people at the weddings? I know we talk about gift grab, but I wonder if that is all of it. The statement Ben made about giving invitations( and originally typed tickets, which may be more accurate) to anyone can think of. That is a very strange thing to do. It seems like that movie "Saving Christmas", where Cameron supporters bought out theaters to be able to say sold out. Are the Duggar's filling to the rafters to show the world how wonderful and well liked they are?

[jarona]

The old-school, along with the Long Island, NY, and NJ school of weddings, are big, lavish, booze and food filled marathons that can cost an arm and a leg. When I got married, my parents paid up to a certain amount, then my ex-husband's family kicked in for the extra guests from their side of the family. In addition, that was over 30 years ago when weddings were a lot less of a circus than they are today. Honestly, I'm hoping when my kids marry, the weddings are extremely small and intimate--but still with great food and beverages.

It is customary for the bride's family to pay for the wedding, with the groom's family footing the bill for the rehearsal dinner. If it is affordable by the families--fine, but I think these days it's both families PLUS the bride and groom kicking in.

Now on to Daddy Duggar: He's full of it if he claims to have paid for the weddings of his daughters. He lies like a rug. First of all, I remember from the wedding prep show with Jill, there were a ton of volunteers preparing very bad food. I'm sure TLC foot the bill for everything else. He's beyond frugal-he's just downright cheap and stingy! As other posters have noted, Jill and Derrick are TEMPORARILY living in that home until he sells it. I can bet he's taking a cut of any money Jill and hubs makes from TLC and is charging them rent. I don't even believe he foot the entire bill for that used plane he purchased for his son. He's so shifty and shady and creepy. Ugh.

[lizbeth]

I would be willing to bet that at least a few universities would be willing to offer to allow a Duggar attend for free if they expressed interest. The thing is their parents have so thoroughly convinced them that worldly education is unnecessary and dangerous that there doesn't appear to be much interest on their parts. I could just see Jill attending school for a nursing degree...as soon as they inevitably began discussing evolution in the numerous science classes she'd have to take, she'd be out of there.

[Nellie]

Nellie, what you are describing is the Duggars dream world.

thats what scares me though. the Duggars have no logic, they probably think science is evil and women must not study or work at all and they are probably nostalgic of how great it was in the 50s and so on. what they dont realize is that in middle ages when most ppl lived very patriarchal lives smiliar to the Duggars, there was no such a thing as a microwave or can soup or frzed buritos to ease Michelle`s load. if she were born in that time when most women married as virigns and left the number of children up to God medical help was provided rarely and most ppl had a dozen kids out of whom nearly half would die before reaching their teens and nobody cared. even had she lived in the 50s Michelle would not be able to save her micropreenie Josie or herself for that matter. Science has made such hard, painfully hard and well deserved progress (I hope you understand what Im trying to say sorry for my English) that throwing all those achievements away and sticking with brainswashing Christian curriculum is unbelievably disrespectfull. and a t the same time Michelle pretends to homor the hard work of teh doctors at the NICU hospital but I bet once her daughter Johanna gets her GED and expresses her desire to become a doctor she will be told that no, you have to get married and start popping out babies right away cause thats what Jesus wants.

[pega127]

No elegant printed invites, no alcohol, no country club rental with fancy food, no band= NO $20,000. wedding Boob!

[Nic]

thats what scares me though. the Duggars have no logic, they probably think science is evil and women must not study or work at all and they are probably nostalgic of how great it was in the 50s and so on. what they dont realize is that in middle ages when most ppl lived very patriarchal lives smiliar to the Duggars, there was no such a thing as a microwave or can soup or frzed buritos to ease Michelle`s load. if she were born in that time when most women married as virigns and left the number of children up to God medical help was provided rarely and most ppl had a dozen kids out of whom nearly half would die before reaching their teens and nobody cared. even had she lived in the 50s Michelle would not be able to save her micropreenie Josie or herself for that matter. Science has made such hard, painfully hard and well deserved progress (I hope you understand what Im trying to say sorry for my English) that throwing all those achievements away and sticking with brainswashing Christian curriculum is unbelievably disrespectfull. and a t the same time Michelle pretends to homor the hard work of teh doctors at the NICU hospital but I bet once her daughter Johanna gets her GED and expresses her desire to become a doctor she will be told that no, you have to get married and start popping out babies right away cause thats what Jesus wants.

I don't think you can put logic onto the Duggars world view. They like technology and technological advancements if it serves them or their interests. They love that they can post selfies of marital kissing or re-heat tatertot casserole in microwave. However, they believe all these advancements can be made not at the expense of giving up their core beliefs. God fearing men can do the inventing and innovation. A man can be a doctor and still believe in creationism. Women support the men. If a baby pulls through in the NICU, sure the doctors played a role through God's Grace.

I think JB realized quite early that it would not be possible for all of his kids to go to college, and he needed to promote ways for the kids to make money out the gate. I'm guessing they would say they are pro-education as long as it doesn't have the "liberal bias" which to them is evolution etc etc. A couple of the girls they say did go onto post-hs through midwifery. They can argue that Jessa is doing what she wants- wife so she didn't need college for that. The boys haven't shown any signs (except for Josiah) for college, because their homeschooling environment doesn't support it, there are colleges out there that are Christian, but that would be a big chunk of change for JB to put out there, and he's a pragmatic guy. You go to college to eventually make a living to raise a family-- if you can do that without college, why not. He can say he's done it, his son Joshy is a bigwig in DC, John David is in position to be a success etc.

Really any objection or but you can put on him, he can just say the lord has a plan...

[halcionne]

Ha thanks kitten!

okay I just saw a thread where they discussed JB buying his son a half a million plane... God they must have saved so much wearing used clothes and eating can soup..... my complains on overpriced weddings seem ridiculous in comparison...

still if I were Jessa Id rather go to college and become a teacher (isnt that what she originally wanted?) instead of blowing all that money on some stupid wedding

Hi Nellie! I'm late to this thread--I'm late to all threads, because I'm perpetually reading yesterday's threads today--so maybe this has been covered already, but for the record, JB got the plane for $200,000, iirc. Which is a bargain, wouldn't you agree? :angry-banghead:

I also feel that 20 to 30K for 1500 people is downright miserly. They served artificial powdered lemonade, ffs. I'm not a wedding person, but google tells me that outside the big cities, 25K is the average for 150 people. So the Duggars got ten times their money's worth! :dance:

As far as the bizarre wedding budget goes, I've always thought they're doing weddings the same way the rest of their peer group does it (which is fine, btw), except for the fact that they are no longer in the same income bracket as their peers. I've read many wedding stories on fj about punch and mint weddings. Not saying I agree with them, but if that's how fundagelical weddings work in NWA, what's it to me.

I think it would be hard to know how to do a wedding "better" when you have (or are expected to spend) more money than what is typical for your social set. And that's all the Duggar sympathy I have for now. :mrgreen:

[SportsgalAnnie]

The traditional way is the bride's family hosts the wedding, that is why they pay for all of it. The groom's family hosts the rehearsal dinner, almost always held the evening before the wedding. In my lifetime, I remember hope chests, an actual chest given to daughters early in life and over the years filled with items to take to her marital home, usually not every-day things but nicer or custom things such as embroidered sheets.

The hope chest fell by the wayside very early on in life, by the time I was in high school, neither I nor any of my contemporaries had such a thing.

The traditional model of who pays for the wedding has changed. Couples who live together prior to marriage should expect to pay for their own wedding. People are waiting til longer to marry, sometimes in their 30's, rather than in late teens. That influences who pays, more and more leaning to the bride and groom funding their own wedding but with some parental assistance - because the bride and groom want to make their own choices instead of bowing to the parent's checkbook. They don't want the wedding to be the bride's parent's party.

I expect my children to primarily fund their own weddings. I have one daughter, I will not go into debt or cash out retirement or anything like that in order to throw her a wedding.

But I am not Jim Bob. I expect my daughter to graduate high school, then have postsecondary education or training in whatever she wants to do. I hope that she will have a business or career rather than placing my hopes on a marriage to establish her in adult life.

I don't believe Jim Bob paid for those weddings because they were/will be aired on the show. I think it is utterly ridiculous that Ben and Jessa had a Paris honeymoon, but again expect that TLC funded it.

wow my family must be old fashioned. When my cousins and I turned 13 instead of toys/fun stuff we started getting things like Pyrex and fiesta ware. there are only a few things in all of our apartments we bought ourselves (inherited most of it)

Also on college they started saving when we were born and as long as we went to a state school, it was covered.

and TLC definitely footed the bill for the weddings

[bunnybunz]

If Jim Bob was the one actually paying for it, and if it really was his daughter's wedding and not a television event, I'm sure it would have been a back-yard wedding and Jessa would have been wearing something Jana sewed for her. Tater-tot casserole at the reception.

[Nic]

I would be willing to bet that at least a few universities would be willing to offer to allow a Duggar attend for free if they expressed interest. The thing is their parents have so thoroughly convinced them that worldly education is unnecessary and dangerous that there doesn't appear to be much interest on their parts. I could just see Jill attending school for a nursing degree...as soon as they inevitably began discussing evolution in the numerous science classes she'd have to take, she'd be out of there.

It's actually more complicated and sad than Jill's narrow mindedness. Between my sophomore and junior of college I did a summer at UC Davis (a state school for those unfamiliar). I stayed in the dorms because it was the easiest option for that short of time. My roommate was a Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) girl. She had only ever attended SDA schools. She was actually transferring to UCD, and using the summer as a way to get used to the school with less pressure.

We spent our first day unpacking and running around together doing the settling in stuff. As we went to sleep that night she sincerely said to me, "You know I really like you. I'm just so sad that you will be going to hell." But I was the least of her problems. She was very cute so the boys were on her. The rules she grew up with were no touching above elbows or knees, so to suddenly see or have fellas casually touching the shoulder freaked her out.

She said to me how weird it was to be in room full of people and realizing that not only are they not all SDA, but that she is probably the only one. The rest of us grew up with people that differ in world views, so we never thought about it.

These were issues that she had without even stepping foot into class.

At the beginning of the summer term her plan was to stay at UCD and graduate from there, by the end of the summer, she left and went back to her SDA college. Could she have given it time and in the fall join the SDA club? Yes, but the summer was just too jarring for her senses.

Another similar person could have found the whole experience exciting. Who knows, but these kids are fighting years of indoctrination.

[BrownieMomma]

wow my family must be old fashioned. When my cousins and I turned 13 instead of toys/fun stuff we started getting things like Pyrex and fiesta ware. there are only a few things in all of our apartments we bought ourselves (inherited most of it)

Also on college they started saving when we were born and as long as we went to a state school, it was covered.

and TLC definitely footed the bill for the weddings

IMO that is very wise and forward thinking of your family. I don't buy my kids things like that, it tends to be stuff like new clothes/makeup/video game - things for the here and now. I honestly don't know of anyone who buys future household items for their kids but it sure seems like a wise investment.

[Nellie]

Yeah I do realize that wedding costs were most likely covered by TLC, plus weddings are more important for this family because they provide entertainment value for the show. As for college, I agree with posters who said that the main reason for the kids not to go there was them being exposed to sin and worldly ideas rather than lack of money. There are quite a few affordable college options out there incl online Degrees and whatnot but Daddy Duggar wants to keep his little blessings inside this bubble. On the other hand Joseph got to go to Clown college (again, just like with Ben`s graduation the Duggars dont even mention what his major was) and I believe he is going to become a missioner or a church leader of some sorts... do you think TLC or the college sponcores his education for advertizing purposes?

[Alexa]

Even with all the attendees, there is NO WAY either of those weddings cost Jim Bob $20,000 each. First of all, they had the receptions OUTSIDE. No chairs to put away, very little in the way of food or refreshment... bull puckey.

I agree that TLC and People probably both paid for "exclusives" from each wedding, and that they were probably entirely paid for by TLC and People.

I also agree with the poster who said that putting money aside for the children's college fund is important... and Mr. Four and I are VERY glad we did just that. Education is FAR more important than a spectacle wedding.

Yeah, I don't see how either wedding could have cost Jim Bob 20k, we all know TLC was footing the bill and they were comped for the rest. All of the volunteers who chose to help the Duggars out for free are what got to me. They could have had the volunteers make some decent food for the guests, it really wouldn't have taken that long or been expensive. Jim Bob showed how cheap he really is. After all the years the girls have been built in baby sitters for their parents and drawn in viewers to the show, the least Jim and Michelle could have done was to give them a decent wedding or actually gift them with a house. Houses in their neck of the woods go for dirt cheap. At least Jessa picked out a gorgeous wedding dress.

[19 cats and counting]

You know? I'm stuck on why so many people at the weddings? I know we talk about gift grab, but I wonder if that is all of it. The statement Ben made about giving invitations( and originally typed tickets, which may be more accurate) to anyone can think of. That is a very strange thing to do. It seems like that movie "Saving Christmas", where Cameron supporters bought out theaters to be able to say sold out. Are the Duggar's filling to the rafters to show the world how wonderful and well liked they are?

Keep in mind in their circles, weddings are not adult only affairs (and I don't mean that in a dirty way). Both Jessa and Josh married into families that had 8 kids. So if there's a fundy wedding where the Kellers, Bateses, and Seewalds are invited, that's about 50 right there before any Duggar is added to the mix.

So while the secular world sees a wedding of 200 guests as large, the fundie world sees that as 20 families.

[artdecades]

The average wedding in America costs $30,000, but the average wedding in Arkansas costs $17,000. This is according to The Knot, and they only surveyed their users so its not a super accurate metric, but it gives you an idea. They also say that 75% of couples either pay part of or all of their wedding costs, but don't provide a breakdown of what part.

I can see that, if there were costs, the Duggars would follow traditional roles and pay for their daughters' weddings. They conform to traditional gender roles and treat weddings as "giving" their daughters to a man. Hell, they have given these men a dowry of a house for marrying their daughters.

However,I don't believe for a second the Duggars paid a cent of their own money for the wedding. According to the links above, the biggest costs are They didn't feed their guests. They used volunteer labor. Most of their vendors were promoted on the show and were either gifted for discounted because of that. The remaining amount was probably covered by TLC. They are getting the best ratings of the series from these weddings. The only thing I could see them paying for is photography and stuff but then that is used by People so they probably have that covered.

[KittenMitten]

Keep in mind in their circles, weddings are not adult only affairs (and I don't mean that in a dirty way). Both Jessa and Josh married into families that had 8 kids. So if there's a fundy wedding where the Kellers, Bateses, and Seewalds are invited, that's about 50 right there before any Duggar is added to the mix.

So while the secular world sees a wedding of 200 guests as large, the fundie world sees that as 20 families.

I truly hope you are right. I would be ok with that. But it really does not matter as it is not my wedding

[roddma]

I am glad hope chests have fallen by the wayside. It assumed all women would be married or wanted to. If I had kids I would never presume they will marry because not everyone wants to or is meant to. They would have been raised so differently than the Duggar kids. It's alright if your paths lead to marriage and babies, but you cant always count on that knight in shining armor fantasy. It's just as bad for men. Antiquated ideas and fantasy leaves many women unable to provide for themselves. Too many people put the cart before the horse.

[smallestneal]

IMO that is very wise and forward thinking of your family. I don't buy my kids things like that, it tends to be stuff like new clothes/makeup/video game - things for the here and now. I honestly don't know of anyone who buys future household items for their kids but it sure seems like a wise investment.

I WISH my parents had done this. Since kids about 13 aren't generally too thrilled with gifts like that (unless they're super mature for some reason or have an interest in something like that), I probably would have benefited most from maybe one "useful" present like dishware or linens and one "here and now" present like a video game or clothes or something. It seems to me like with every kid that moves out, the Duggars would need fewer items like towels and such for their home and could give some stuff to their kids when they get married. Even if it's a hand-me-down, anything would help. Do they do this at all? Do we know? Or is it literally just "ask all these zillion people, most of which are essentially strangers, for EVERY DAMN THING."

[purposed2015]

The average wedding in America costs $30,000, but the average wedding in Arkansas costs $17,000. This is according to The Knot, and they only surveyed their users so its not a super accurate metric, but it gives you an idea. They also say that 75% of couples either pay part of or all of their wedding costs, but don't provide a breakdown of what part.

I can see that, if there were costs, the Duggars would follow traditional roles and pay for their daughters' weddings. They conform to traditional gender roles and treat weddings as "giving" their daughters to a man. Hell, they have given these men a dowry of a house for marrying their daughters.

However,I don't believe for a second the Duggars paid a cent of their own money for the wedding. According to the links above, the biggest costs are They didn't feed their guests. They used volunteer labor. Most of their vendors were promoted on the show and were either gifted for discounted because of that. The remaining amount was probably covered by TLC. They are getting the best ratings of the series from these weddings. The only thing I could see them paying for is photography and stuff but then that is used by People so they probably have that covered.

I agree with you. JB has EVERY angle figured out. They (Jessa & Ben) were probably given a certain amount or given certain items for the wedding/honeymoon by TLC and decided to cheap out on the wedding reception and go for the expensive European honeymoon. If TLC doesn't pay for something I bet JB takes it as a tax deduction. Can you imagine their tax return ?

I'm sure the value of the mansion has increased more by Jill & Derick living there. When JB goes to sell it I'm sure there are people who would love to live in it because it was "as seen on 19KAC" :wink-kitty:

[Toothfairy]

JB is cheap as hell, tlc pays for everything or they get freebies. If it were up to him with no show and once of his girls giving away their hymen the wedding would be at home or on the front lawn. With Jana sewing the dresses and Jessa & Jill reusing a wedding dress. The Duggars would make their nasty home cooked meals or feed their guests punch and chips.

I also feel that if people want to get married afford your own wedding. If not wait to have your dream wedding or get married in the courthouse like I did. Weddings are starting to get overrated anyway.

[Cleopatra7]

The bottom line is that JB and Michelle don't believe in college because they are afraid -- rightfully so, in my opinion -- that if their children are exposed to outside ideas that they'll realize how ridiculous Gothardism is and leave the lifestyle. Gothard made his name in the 1970s and 80s by promising conservative parents that if they followed his "Biblical principles" that their children wouldn't rebel and get involved in whatever constituted the counter-culture in those time. Most families didn't stick with his program because it's so legalistic and soul crushing, but the Duggars appear to be those rare sorts who seemed to really like it, probably because they don't have any intellectual curiosity or the ability to engage in introspection.

[DGayle]

The traditional way is the bride's family hosts the wedding, that is why they pay for all of it. The groom's family hosts the rehearsal dinner, almost always held the evening before the wedding.

The bride's family hosted because they were paying for the party that turned her over from being their financial responsibility to someone else.

When marriage was a business dealing, a man didn't want to marry a woman who brought nothing to the table, and a big wedding at the expense of her family showed everyone that they had money.

Rehearsal dinners are a new, 20th century invention. They never were needed, and still really aren't. They're part of the WIC that induces people to spend money, like how everyone is now supposed to have an engagement dinner (and guests are supposed to bring gifts) and get engagement pictures if they're going to do it all right, like a smaller wedding.