Jim Bob`s hypocrisy

[Nellie]

Hey guys,

I live in Germany so sorry for my not so perfect English. I wanted to ask about American wedding traditions - does the bride`s father really have to pay for the wedding always? wouldnt it make more sence for both families to pitch in a little bit? not to mention the fact that a frugal person like Jim Bob could actually save money on the wedding and keep the cost low.

 

I was just shocked by his hypocrisy - he`s not willing to spend a few thousand dollars on his daughters education and forces them to attend this stupid college minus program but at the same time he`s willing to pay 20-30K for their weddings? seriously? and yet none of them ever learned a profession? wasnt he the one saying that you shouldnt keep up with the Joneses and forced Michelle to buy gross used shoes for two dollars but at the same time Jessa can have expensive flower arrangements and a honeymoon in Europe? that simply doesnt make sence to me....

[SportsgalAnnie]

It depends on the family's background. I know some people have weddings where both familys chip in, Others where the Bride's family pays for the wedding and the grooms for the honeymoon.

A growing trend is destination weddings where both pay. ( that's what mine wants to do for me someday)

[roddma]

Not to mention he spent 100K on a campaign in the early day while they scraped by. Im not sure if the weddings cost 20K, but you would think with the nice TLC income they could serve something other than than hot dogs .

[DGayle]

The old tradition of the bride's family paying is falling by the wayside. We no longer have most brides moving from their parents' homes in with their husbands. Most brides and grooms these days are older, and have had time of working and supporting themselves under their belt. More and more couples are paying for their weddings themselves. I will admit that we have no intention of footing out daughters' wedding bills. We may help out, but they're not going to get to have us billed. If they want to get married and be adults, they better be adult enough to pay for what they want without expectations, as their father and I did.

[Nellie]

The old tradition of the bride's family paying is falling by the wayside. We no longer have most brides moving from their parents' homes in with their husbands. Most brides and grooms these days are older, and have had time of working and supporting themselves under their belt. More and more couples are paying for their weddings themselves. I will admit that we have no intention of footing out daughters' wedding bills. We may help out, but they're not going to get to have us billed. If they want to get married and be adults, they better be adult enough to pay for what they want without expectations, as their father and I did.

thats what Im planning for my kids - I have a son and a daughter and I will help a little but I most certainly am not spending thousands of euros on a one day wedding. they get all those people together (many of them they barely even know) and they serve hot dogs..... wow. just wow.

and yeah I do wonder if TLC covered some of the wedding costs. because think about it, why did they have to order different sets of bridesmaid dresses for three different weddings? couldnt they just have used the same dresses on all three of them?

the thing that bothers me more is how little value education for JB has compared to a fancy wedding. For K30 Jessa could have a Bachelors degree. but she`s unemployed, doesnt have any skills and seems so naive like a teenager preparing to live with another unexperienced teenager in a glass house and be on TV all the time and get paid. insane.

My whole point is, JB and Michelle are trying so hard to be frugal and practical, making their own laundry soap and buying used clothes but they did not have enough money scrambled to prepare their kids for survival in a real world and instead raised tehm to be reality show preachers.

[KittenMitten]

Hey guys,

I live in Germany so sorry for my not so perfect English.

I was just shocked by his hypocrisy - he`s not willing to spend a few thousand dollars on his daughters education and forces them to attend this stupid college minus program but at the same time he`s willing to pay 20-30K for their weddings? seriously? and yet none of them ever learned a profession? wasnt he the one saying that you shouldnt keep up with the Joneses and forced Michelle to buy gross used shoes for two dollars but at the same time Jessa can have expensive flower arrangements and a honeymoon in Europe? that simply doesnt make sence to me....

Hey, Nellie! Simply because it doesn't make sense. And, kinda evil in my opinion. Also, your English is excellent. Perhaps you can give some lessons to Jim Bob.

ETA: Oh, sorry, that would be an awful thing to suggest to a fellow FJ member. Or any human, actually.

[Nellie]

Ha thanks kitten!

okay I just saw a thread where they discussed JB buying his son a half a million plane... God they must have saved so much wearing used clothes and eating can soup..... my complains on overpriced weddings seem ridiculous in comparison...

still if I were Jessa Id rather go to college and become a teacher (isnt that what she originally wanted?) instead of blowing all that money on some stupid wedding

[whoviana]

Hi there Nellie,

You know selling your daughter's hymen is the biggest event in her life. It is like the coronation of her purity. Education doesn't matter that much since she will be popping out kids and touring with her Hate Evangelism all the time. She won't even have to be any cooking, she will be just opening boxes, cans and bags of frozen food 3 times a day. So, no, no education is necessary.

[BrownieMomma]

The traditional way is the bride's family hosts the wedding, that is why they pay for all of it. The groom's family hosts the rehearsal dinner, almost always held the evening before the wedding. In my lifetime, I remember hope chests, an actual chest given to daughters early in life and over the years filled with items to take to her marital home, usually not every-day things but nicer or custom things such as embroidered sheets.

The hope chest fell by the wayside very early on in life, by the time I was in high school, neither I nor any of my contemporaries had such a thing.

The traditional model of who pays for the wedding has changed. Couples who live together prior to marriage should expect to pay for their own wedding. People are waiting til longer to marry, sometimes in their 30's, rather than in late teens. That influences who pays, more and more leaning to the bride and groom funding their own wedding but with some parental assistance - because the bride and groom want to make their own choices instead of bowing to the parent's checkbook. They don't want the wedding to be the bride's parent's party.

I expect my children to primarily fund their own weddings. I have one daughter, I will not go into debt or cash out retirement or anything like that in order to throw her a wedding.

But I am not Jim Bob. I expect my daughter to graduate high school, then have postsecondary education or training in whatever she wants to do. I hope that she will have a business or career rather than placing my hopes on a marriage to establish her in adult life.

I don't believe Jim Bob paid for those weddings because they were/will be aired on the show. I think it is utterly ridiculous that Ben and Jessa had a Paris honeymoon, but again expect that TLC funded it.

[whoviana]

I think going into debt to throw a wedding is just the stupidest thing ever... Shouldn't it be about two people tying the knot and not about showing off and pretending we are celebrities in a gentry manner? I never understood how could people do that... we'll have one beach ceremony, totally private, in the Caribbean area paid by my future husband, and one traditional Jewish wedding with the extended family. My relatives will not be present, and Fiance's parents said that they will foot the bills and that kind of spending won't shake the foundations of their finances I know that. There will be one ceremony held outside and one afternoon lunch with hot meals at a restaurant, the price is all set. My dress will be a heritage dress. There will be about 40 people present. But yet again, I am neither a fundie princess nor a virgin. :lol:

[Nellie]

I personally dont even judge ppl who splash out on their weddings if they can afford it and other more neccessary needs are covered. the problem I have with JB is that he and Michelle actually made a statement in teh past on how college is not important and too expensive for all 20 kids anyway so their kids will have to find ways to "gain life skills" and somehow become jack of all trades and make their way in life. this indicates that money is tight in this family and that JB just cant afford to at least sponcor Associates Degrees at a local community college for his kids. Now we all know thats a lie. He could have provided decent trade for everyone of his kids if he wanted to, not nessecarily Harvard but Im pretty sure JB could pay for Josh to get a Business degree, for Jessa to become a certicified cosmetologist and Jill could actually have attended medical school and become a professional nurse/midwife. Im pretty sure JB could find money for that. the weddings for his multiple kids could have been cheap and simple, them alredy owing a hoemchurch, a house that can host several hundreds of people and all teh vehicles they need to transport everyone. education should have been teh priority and it wasnt, instead teh girls got 20-30K spent on hotdogs and icecream for nearly a thousand guests most of whom the y probably barely knew just to show off for TV. that thing really pisses me off. talking about being frugal, saving on important stuff and then blow the money on some unnessecary crap. hmm.

well, at least he provided his two daughters with houses. I have to give that. because teh husbands he chose for them are certainly ot rich and will both want to become priests one day (how ridiculous is that??? a family of priests)

[Nellie]

sorry for the spelling, my keyboard is kind of broken or smth

[SnowShine]

The biggest hypocrisy from JB, in my opinion, is that he always says he leaves the number of children they have up to Michelle. That's complete nonsense because it's well publicized that Michelle won't say no if he calls.

[Nellie]

The biggest hypocrisy from JB, in my opinion, is that he always says he leaves the number of children they have up to Michelle. That's complete nonsense because it's well publicized that Michelle won't say no if he calls.

that literally makes me sick. obviously Michelle cant say no to him and since birth control is out of question, there is always a risk of her getting pregnant at around 50 and dying. I mean now that probably wont happen but still think about it... I remember in the episode where she talked about Jubilee`s death how she said smth like "If God chooses to give me another child I will birth him and am willing to lay my life down for that child". Oh come on! they think they are being slefless and ready to sacrifice? Huh. JB is totally nuts for not letting her use condoms or birth control thus potentially risking her life. and if Michelle had died (her pregnancy with Josie was life threatening remember) who would take care of this large brood of kids? Jana would probably be eslaved for life untill Josie graduates. JB is being extremely selfish not allowing his wife using birth control and guilt shaming her because of losing Caleb due to birth control (that freak thinks that birth control causes abortions. because some priest in church said so)

[KittenMitten]

Oh my gosh, I am going to agree with Jim Bob on one thing. Hold me, I'm scared. I agree that it is very expensive to put 19 kids through college, at least real college. That is why most people don't have 19 kids. I was going to say impossible, but I think it would be very, very difficult, but not impossible. Have to cut out the planes and such, as all here have mentioned.

I think there are two other reasons that college is a not an option. Kids will be out from under his influence in the evil world. I also believe that he is threatened. If the kids go to college they will learn Jim Bob is probably only slightly brighter than a houseplant. No offense to houseplants.

ETA: I believe it was a Christian doctor that told them about birth control and miscarriages. If a Priest said it to them, they might have run the opposite direction, 'cause you know those evil Priests (Duggar's beliefs). People also wonder if this story was entirely true.

[Four is Enough]

Well, for one thing, nobody HAS to put any kids through college, and nobody HAS to pay for a grandiose wedding. Both I and my husband put ourselves through college, grad school, and, in his case," professional" school, without much help at all from parents. (We were each able to live at home for some of it.)

I paid for my weddings, both of them.

We had the educations and wedding we could afford, and we've earned a good living from the educations. The point is that we were EXPECTED to plan for and attend college.

The Duggars are not. I feel for them.

[whoviana]

No, he hasn't provided his daughters with a permanent home. He said that Jill and Shaggy can live in HIS property until he sells it. I don't know about Jessa and her manchild, but to Jill and Shaggy he said: welcome to your TEMPORARY home. So I cannot give him that. What, a few months of living rent-free while his pregnant daughter keeps the show going on and the cash rolling in for him? That's balaned! They are also under JB's thumb, at his mercy, stripped of their privacy, having a TV birth, and having all kinds of strangers broadcasting their lives. All that for a house that they do not own, and they will have to move out of. What generosity, really.

[whoviana]

Well, for one thing, nobody HAS to put any kids through college, and nobody HAS to pay for a grandiose wedding. Both I and my husband put ourselves through college, grad school, and, in his case," professional" school, without much help at all from parents. (We were each able to live at home for some of it.)

I paid for my weddings, both of them.

We had the educations and wedding we could afford, and we've earned a good living from the educations. The point is that we were EXPECTED to plan for and attend college.

The Duggars are not. I feel for them.

Providing your kid with a circus-like, ridiculous, frivolous, loud and boastful wedding to show off before others is totally not an obligation. But helping them get through college, I think it's a terribly important thing in life. I would definitely put aside for my kids' tuition.

[19 cats and counting]

I think in Quiverfull circles, the bride's family pays for the wedding. Look at the Bates weddings--- Erin and Alyssa had theirs televised (and I'm going to assume that TLC and ABC picked up some of the costs in return for televising) while Zach did not. I'm 99.9% sure Michael(la) will have her's televised by UP in order to save on some of the costs. Given Gil's gift for grifting, I'm sure he sought out to have his daughters' weddings on TV.

Now onto Duggar weddings--- Josh/Anna's wedding was a completely different ballgame than Jill or Jessa. You could tell that it was a Keller wedding (with TLC's help) as opposed to a Duggar wedding. (I will admit I liked it better than the other two aside from the hand sex). I can see not reusing bridesmaid dresses--- they're set in the wedding colors and Jill and Jessa did not have the same colors (I believe Jessa reused Jordyn's flower girl dress). And I don't fault them for not reusing the bridesmaid dresses--- in their circles, a wedding is the ONE day a fundie girl has to make her own (except for Priscilla) and I'll give it to them). Jill's was nothing but product placement and volunteer labor (and Jana). I haven't seen much of this season to judge Jessa. (I completely understand her comment about eloping though. I'm not married and do not want the stress or bills of a wedding).

I've never been to a southern wedding (weddings in my neck of the woods are a sit down meal with alcohol and dancing and typically very expensive) and a cake and punch reception would get you laughed out of town here.

[Nellie]

did Alyssa have her wedding televised? where exactly was it shown on what channel/show?

btw now that the Bates are on a different chanel, wiill they occasionally appear on 19KAC or not anymore?

[19 cats and counting]

did Alyssa have her wedding televised? where exactly was it shown on what channel/show?

btw now that the Bates are on a different chanel, wiill they occasionally appear on 19KAC or not anymore?

It was a Nightline special on ABC. There's a link to it somewhere on here (probably in the thread about her wedding on the Bates subforum).

[calimojo]

ok, not to sound stupid but where is the Bates subforum?

[VelociRapture]

Hey guys,

I live in Germany so sorry for my not so perfect English. I wanted to ask about American wedding traditions - does the bride`s father really have to pay for the wedding always? wouldnt it make more sence for both families to pitch in a little bit? not to mention the fact that a frugal person like Jim Bob could actually save money on the wedding and keep the cost low.

I was just shocked by his hypocrisy - he`s not willing to spend a few thousand dollars on his daughters education and forces them to attend this stupid college minus program but at the same time he`s willing to pay 20-30K for their weddings? seriously? and yet none of them ever learned a profession? wasnt he the one saying that you shouldnt keep up with the Joneses and forced Michelle to buy gross used shoes for two dollars but at the same time Jessa can have expensive flower arrangements and a honeymoon in Europe? that simply doesnt make sence to me....

Hi Nellie!

It depends on the family. My sister got married last fall. She and her now-husband paid for their wedding on their own. My Fiance and I are doing the same. Other families (like my best friend) d a mix - she and her husband paid the majority of the bill, her parents handed over a set amount to help, and his parents paid for their Honeymoon. Other families, the parents - either the Bride's, the Groom's, or both - pay for it.

With the Duggars, I think a lot depends on the culture they live in. They tend to be quite old-fashioned and traditional on some things - such as not living together and not having sex before marriage. For that reason, I think they would find it natural that the Bride's family would host and pay for the wedding.

With the college aspect - I think there are a few reasons why they would shell out money for a wedding and not an education. First, it would take the kids outside of the Umbrella that Gothard talks about - children are supposed to stay under the Umbrella of their parents' authority in order to protect them from sin. Allowing them to earn an education outside the home would mean they are being exposed to other authority figures who could challenge the things the parents have taught them and expose them to sin. Secondly, they have 19 kids and paying for all their educations would be expensive. Finally, their culture dictates that a woman's highest calling is to be a mother and a wife - an education can be incredibly useful for that (for instance, majoring in education if you intend to home-school), but it isn't necessarily needed.

I know that Jill had expressed interest at one point in Nursing, but she wound up studying Midwifery for a bit instead. Jessa, as far as I know, has not expressed interest in college. I think if she had been born into a different family she could have excelled in school - same with Jill and all the other kids. It pains me to see that they weren't given that option, but the two married girls appear to be happy enough for now. I hope all the kids wind up leading lives that make them happy.

[KittenMitten]

ok, not to sound stupid but where is the Bates subforum?

I do not know how to do links, but you can check out Duggar's vs Bate's on Duggar page, find Bate's thread on Wide World of Snark and old threads under Individuals and Families.

Have fun

[Nic]

JB is saying that these weddings are costing him 10-20K, but I call BS on you, James Robert Duggar! First, I think a guy like that would have a budget pinned down or stated without a 50% margin of wiggle room. Second, he's got TLC and People and whatever Brit paper there for exclusives. Third, I think he just gets deals. Hey man, look how much PR you will get being showcased here... he has volunteers (BTW, I thought THAT ridiculous-- this was a wedding to a wealthy man's daughter, use paid banquet staff-- give a little back to community) but that like many things he's also able to get by trading on his name. They do a couple things here and there that are inconsequential to show that they are trying to appear not lavish, but I'm just not buying the whole wedding costing thing.

I think when he talks about spending money on a wedding, it's in theory, but not even a good theory. If this were IRL, you'd see a lot more JB haggling, a lot more structure, a lot more buy used save the difference. And it wouldn't look so pretty. There are times when he has tried to haggle where everyone just looks uncomfortable, but him.

Jessa's wedding when they talk about numbers is just ridiculous, but shows these are people NOT on a budget. How many weddings has anyone heard of the groom saying, well I sent an invitation to everyone I know... like it was sounding real randomy. Instead, what I have heard of/ experienced is ok we each get X amount of invites... And also usually, if one doesn't need as many invites, the other needs even more and takes the leftovers-- or happy because that's less $ to spend. I got the impression from Ben if he could think of your first/last name and some way to get the invite to you, you got one, though I could also imagine him handing one to the nameless grocery clerk he likes, mailman, etc too.