CHRISTIAN PASTOR WELFARE RECIPIENTS DON’T DESERVE TO LIVE

[doggie]

another quality christian opening his mouth and letting horror fall out. I mean the guy liked Hitler.

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/human-inte ... e-to-live/

Texas Pastor John Hagee, one of the more popular sanctimonious a-hole preachers, is back to let you know that he’s still a terrible human being. Hagee, a man notorious for saying that Hitler was fulfilling god’s will and who proudly endorsed Senator John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign, is now weighing in on the poor.

[FundieWatcher]

Fundies crack me up. You can't have both birth control and poverty being moral crimes.

[doggie]

Fundies crack me up. You can't have both birth control and poverty being moral crimes.

Sure you can and add no sex before marriage that one is real effective

[FundieWatcher]

Exactly. This is probably the most convincing point:

"the sectors that have thrived the most in the wake of the economic abortion of 2008 are those producing low-wage jobs, thus making it harder for people to make a living."

It is taking longer for people to establish careers and earn a living wage. If everyone waits until they are middle class to have kids...

[Coco]

Jon Stewart's segment on this was great last year: The people saying it's a waste should look at kids receiving food stamps as a struggling startup with a liquidity problem. thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/mlw5q1/2014--a-waste-odyssey

It is really problematic for people like John Hagee to assume welfare means a free ticket without taking the time to understand the participants or the workings of the system. He's one of those kinds of preachers who puts a lot of spin into his messages. Like a Fox News personality, basically.

[salex]

another quality christian opening his mouth and letting horror fall out. I mean the guy liked Hitler.

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/human-inte ... e-to-live/

Texas Pastor John Hagee, one of the more popular sanctimonious a-hole preachers, is back to let you know that he’s still a terrible human being. Hagee, a man notorious for saying that Hitler was fulfilling god’s will and who proudly endorsed Senator John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign, is now weighing in on the poor.

OK, know I say this as an overweight person, but the first think that comes to my mind when I hear this man's name is

"OH, that fat fuck."

Because I have never figured out how the hell anyone would listen to him for more than 3 minutes.

He divorced his wife to marry his secretary, or some such, has some pretty apostatic

views of Christ, his friendliness with the Jews is mostly because he thinks they need to be in a big war to launch Armageddon and he's fund raising lately on some newer End Times superstition.

What the hell is the deal with these Texas Cult of the Minister megachurches? Most of the texans I work with seem normal, but someone has to go to all these churches.

I actually ran into him (almost literally) years ago in a hallway (on the way to the restrooms) in a town in Kansas, he was there for some religious thing--shearing the sheep I assumed. Not a word was spoken, but the self importance was right there.

[Cartmann99]

Does Pastor Hagee know that Dr. Ben Carson was raised by a single mom who received welfare? Or is that okay because he's a conservative?

[whoviana]

That's... pretty extreme... :?

[FloraKitty35]

Does Pastor Hagee know that Dr. Ben Carson was raised by a single mom who received welfare? Or is that okay because he's a conservative?

That's different to a tool like Hagee. :roll:

[RosyDaisy]

Pastor Hagee needs to re-read his Bible, especially the words in red print. They are, you know, actual things Jesus said.

[TeaELSee]

The way these idiots think scares me. Jesus wants the needy to suffer, but give large corporations more profit.

The hypocrisy of the right wing & their politicians baffle me.

[Coco]

The way these idiots think scares me. Jesus wants the needy to suffer, but give large corporations more profit.

The hypocrisy of the right wing & their politicians baffle me.

Corporate greed picked the right group to hide behind. Not ALL conservatives are easily persuaded and superstitious, but when you put religious belief front and center it can be twisted by masterminds. And i really don't believe the crazy stage guys like John Hagee are totally deceived. To be in a position of influence for so long, they have to know how things are being done behind their backs. Hagee kicks the hornets nest, and the side that the sleezeballs are hiding behind gets votes and donations.

[Mellanya]

I'll honestly NEVER understand how this is supposed to work with that one most important line of christianity (love thy neighbor anyone?).

As in, if I love my neighbor as myself, I give him half my food cause I personally don't feel like starving. Why do these fundies pull out every verse they can find that only remotely allows them to let the less fortunate suffer, while literally none of them say "well, I just bought myself a Porsche, I'm going to buy another one for my neighbor"?

Guess it's true - love ends where the money starts.

[Burris]

I am not surprised to hear this man - John Hagee - beating down the helpless with that luxury Bible of his; I've seem a few of his sermons, most of which are more political than theological.

'If a man among you would not work, let him not eat' is clearly aimed at employable persons who are able to find a job and keep that job through diligence. Not every person who wants to work can find a job, however, and those who do find jobs - depending in part on their training - may end up with insufficient money for basic needs, and few benefits.

A mother, for example, then finds herself in a position that proponents of the "prolife" ideology should understand and support: She could put her child in subsidized care that, if she had to pay it all, would cost more than she earns; or she can go on social assistance and raise her child.

And not only are there the working poor, but the working homeless as well - a group that finds employment hard to keep in part because shift hours do not match well with shelter hours. Some of these people end up in cars or in storage units and so on because they need that kind of freedom to hold a job (as well as to collect the deposit and rent for a flat, in addition to utility hook-up fees.)

There is nothing in the Bible that says people who cannot work, either temporarily or permanently, should be denied food. In fact, at least one group of the poor - widows of character over age 60 - could seek membership on a list through which other members would provide for their needs. Others without permanent jobs were permitted to glean their neighbours' fields during the harvest without facing penalties for theft.

The Bible provides wide-ranging injunctions against abusing power and mistreating the poor.

An appropriate groundwork exists in Isaiah 25:3-4:

"Therefore a strong people will glorify You; Cities of ruthless nations will revere You. [Why? Because...] For You have been a defense for the helpless, A defense for the needy in his distress, A refuge from the storm, a shade from the heat; For the breath of the ruthless Is like a rain storm against a wall."

In seeking relief from his many enemies, David recorded in Psalm 140:12 that, "I know that the Lord will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and will execute justice for the needy." (It's clear here and through any other list I could provide that a major attribute of the Biblical God is a concern for those in need - however they became stuck in such a spot.)

Psalm 10:14: "Thou hast seen it; for thou beholdest mischief and spite, to requite it with thy hand: the poor committeth himself unto thee; thou art the helper of the fatherless." (KJV)

A short comment that appears in James 2:5 aims straight at the self-importance of men such as Hagee: "Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?"

Moreover, a short passage in the Book of Isaiah examines the character of a Holy Man:

"He will not cry out or raise His voice, Nor make His voice heard in the street. A bruised reed He will not break And a dimly burning wick He will not extinguish; He will faithfully bring forth justice. He will not be disheartened or crushed Until He has established justice in the earth..." -- Isaiah 42:2-4 (See also Matthew 12:20 and Psalm 72:4)

There are several other characteristics in Hagee's nature that would disqualify him from the pastorate in any church truly based on the concept of an inerrant Bible:

The Bible offers some rather severe tests for whether or not an individual is fit for the role of pastor, elder, or other senior church officer. These tests can be found in Micah 6:8, James 2:8:12, Luke 10:27-28; and in 1 Timothy 3 as well as in Titus 1:5-9.

The special requirements found in 1 TIMOTHY 3, good for all Believers but imperative in leaders, are as follows:

A pastor or elder must...

...be blameless

...be the husband of one wife

...be temperate

...be sober-minded

...be well-behaved

...be hospitable – kind, welcoming, accessible

...be able to teach

...not be a hard drinker

...not be violent

...refrain from greed and covetousness

...be gentle

...be able to govern his own house

...have significant experience as a Christian and student of theology

...behave in a manner that demonstrates his genuine fitness for leadership, such that even non-believers and other people in the wider community will respect his character

TITUS 1:5-9 lists many of the same qualities – a fact that demonstrates their importance. A pastor or elder must exhibit the following traits:

• His conduct is habitually good – above reproach

• He is the husband to one wife

• His children are well-behaved

• He is flexible in the face of dissent, rather than prideful

• He must have mastery over how he expresses anger

• He should not be addicted to alcohol or other such substances

• He should dislike the prospect of violence

• He is not greedy or willing to benefit by dishonesty

• He is hospitable

• He demonstrates a love for what is good

• He is sensible

• He is just and fair in his dealings and in his rulings

• He is devout

• He is a knowledgeable teacher

Hagee himself should have been disqualified from speaking at the pulpit on more than one occasion:

** He not only broke his marriage vow but also defied a specific Biblical clause concerning ecclesiastical fitness when he divorced his wife, the still-living mother of his first children, and subsequently married the woman with whom he had had the affair.

** He sows misery and discord: Hagee states, for example, that Hitler was following the will of God in his genocidal actions against the Jews. (

)

** He is sometimes either uninformed or deliberately dishonest: "Your daughter can get an abortion at [a] public school without telling you." (Ibid.)

** He, though a literalist, is also a glutton. (I'm quite overweight, and so I cannot condemn gluttony except to warn others of the potential health consequences.) In his case, however, he sometimes viciously condemns others for their sins. That puts him directly in this site: "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." - Matthew 7:2

A more profound warning, but in the same tradition as the one above, appears in Psalm 109:17 - "He loved to pronounce a curse-- may it come back on him. He found no pleasure in blessing-- may it be far from him."

I found another quote from Hagee that sheds a little light on his disdain for the poor: He believes there's "a relationship between your soul and physical and financial prosperity." (Praise-A-Thon, November 4, 1992)

I wonder if he felt the same way after having undergone bypass surgery.

[momof2treasures]

How do these people have christian followers? It's as if they don't read the bible at all. THe bible is full of statements about helping the poor and needy. It certainly isn't Christ like to be greedy and judgemental.Spreading this hate is anti christian not to mention ignorant.

[whoviana]

Pastor Hagee needs to re-read his Bible, especially the words in red print. They are, you know, actual things Jesus said.

Yeah, like, totally!!!!!! Do they read the same freaking Bible that I did? Jesus was a poor man most of his life, an "azceta*. If he was the same guy who opened a can of whoops on the ass of the peddlers while in the church? That guy sure didn't play marbles with horsecrap. He did mean busienss. I think if he came back, He'd bitch slap these hate filled, ill-wishing "evangelists" while us, sinners would wait for our jugdment.

[ADoyle90815]

Yeah, like, totally!!!!!! Do they read the same freaking Bible that I did? Jesus was a poor man most of his life, an "azceta*. If he was the same guy who opened a can of whoops on the ass of the peddlers while in the church? That guy sure didn't play marbles with horsecrap. He did mean busienss. I think if he came back, He'd bitch slap these hate filled, ill-wishing "evangelists" while us, sinners would wait for our jugdment.

I agree, in fact I think of the cartoon where Jesus comes back and says to those people, "I thought you would follow me, not Ayn Rand." I think when they read the Bible, they ignore the parts Jesus said about helping the poor, and only focus on the bits that justify their hateful beliefs, mostly stuff from the Old Testament.

[Walking Cat Bed]

I'll honestly NEVER understand how this is supposed to work with that one most important line of christianity (love thy neighbor anyone?).

As in, if I love my neighbor as myself, I give him half my food cause I personally don't feel like starving. Why do these fundies pull out every verse they can find that only remotely allows them to let the less fortunate suffer, while literally none of them say "well, I just bought myself a Porsche, I'm going to buy another one for my neighbor"?

Guess it's true - love ends where the money starts.

I've had someone just brush off that concept with "oh, but the bible says "the poor you'll always have with you", so we CAN'T change that or we're going against the bible!!!...smile."

[DGayle]

'If a man among you would not work, let him not eat' is clearly aimed at employable persons who are able to find a job and keep that job through diligence. Not every person who wants to work can find a job, however, and those who do find jobs - depending in part on their training - may end up with insufficient money for basic needs, and few benefits.

You can have a job today, and it closes tomorrow.

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/ ... 257908.php

I had friends affected by that. I'm sure that "pastor" would advocate letting those people and their kids starve and die. I also lost my job in the recession.

And not only are there the working poor, but the working homeless as well - a group that finds employment hard to keep in part because shift hours do not match well with shelter hours. Some of these people end up in cars or in storage units and so on because they need that kind of freedom to hold a job (as well as to collect the deposit and rent for a flat, in addition to utility hook-up fees.)

Been there. During one of the most traumatizing times of my life. Few things are more gutting than having to bundle the kids up to keep them warm, while you try to let go of your frustration and anger that your spouse is working, while you can't because you can't apply for subsidized childcare until after you have a job, and nobody will hire someone who can't start for weeks or months while waiting for childcare help to come up.

We didn't do anything wrong. The owners of the house we were in were in trouble, and we got 2 weeks of notice we had to be out. Trying to save up a deposit and everything is a lot harder when you're homeless. I hate when people think that it should be easier because there's no rent. There are higher costs in other ways. No food storage means you buy the $1.50-pints of milk instead of the $3-gallons, and if the kids need milk every day, you spend $1.50 a day, which is $12 per gallon. Hot meals mean drive-thrus at $15 a pop instead of getting to spend $5 on a pot of spaghetti and meatballs. Laundry is at a laundromat a lot more often since there isn't room in a car for many clothes, but you still need clean clothes. The RV was a step up, but was still hell. (The RV wasn't even technically ours.)

And then, when you have a deposit, which we did thanks to a tax refund, good fucking luck finding a place to rent to you without a cosigner whose credit is stellar and who qualifies on their own, willing to be the primary renter with your family as the co-tenants. Thank the gods for my husband's mom.

There's so much judging about people who aren't working or who are poor or otherwise struggling. This isn't the idealized 1950's, where everyone willing to work full time made enough for a small home, when manufacturing and everything else was in the US, and imports were exotic and a sign of wealth. How far we've reversed from that, and judge those who are doing the best with the shitty circumstances dealt to them. Shame on everyone who thinks the poor and people who need help should die.

[feministxtian]

I think this guy needs to re-read this particular passage of scripture:

The Final Judgment

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[f] you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.â€

[Burris]

shame on everyone who thinks the poor and people who need help should die.

I agree. Because we have no children, we haven't faced the same situation as you - but at times in my own life, as well as when married (we're in the midst of loss again, in part because we are not getting the support we need for a few things), we've accepted the cycle of good fortune and loss, good fortune and loss, good fortune and loss - all part of survival. It's the foolish man who believes he's above such; no one truly is.