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Mrs. Pecan Thief gives up sleep for her man!


IReallyAmHopewell

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FJers come from all walks of life, and the combination of those life experiences and beliefs is what makes it a special place. Just because I want my husband to have a place of leadership in my household does not mean I am an incompetent fool in need of male guidance.

Don't act like I don't understand that FJ is full of a variety of members. Paraphrasing the FJ declaration of intent: We are here to discuss the damage done by fundies. This is not a welcoming place for fundies nor for people who believe that gender roles are rigid.

By no means does one have to identify a feminist but one should question why they dislike fundies at all if they believe the rightful place for women is following their husbands. I guess if you made it this far through my reply, perhaps you could share what you dislike about fundies?

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Don't act like I don't understand that FJ is full of a variety of members. Paraphrasing the FJ declaration of intent: We are here to discuss the damage done by fundies. This is not a welcoming place for fundies nor for people who believe that gender roles are rigid.

By no means does one have to identify a feminist but one should question why they dislike fundies at all if they believe the rightful place for women is following their husbands. I guess if you made it this far through my reply, perhaps you could share what you dislike about fundies?

Fundamentalism creates an environment that removes the option of choice across the board. Just because this is something that works in my relationship, and that others find works in theirs, doesn't mean that I expect it for everyone else or for any children I may have in the future. (Also, please note that I simply said "have a place of leadership in my household", rather than the tone of your intimation that I believe a woman's rightful place is following her husband. I can't speak for whosever post you're originally referencing, but that was my comment.) They also seem to have extreme difficulty providing even basic necessities for their children or making responsible choices. The constructs that fundies force on others, and their unwillingness to consider or tolerate the different choices of others, are what I find intolerable...much like what rankled me about the tone of your response.

My point is, one part of the pie does not equal the whole.

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Don't act like I don't understand that FJ is full of a variety of members. Paraphrasing the FJ declaration of intent: We are here to discuss the damage done by fundies. This is not a welcoming place for fundies nor for people who believe that gender roles are rigid.

By no means does one have to identify a feminist but one should question why they dislike fundies at all if they believe the rightful place for women is following their husbands. I guess if you made it this far through my reply, perhaps you could share what you dislike about fundies?

You know, you seem to think you have the right to tell everyone on this board what FJ is and what to do here. You have been here like 5 minutes. You are neither an admin or a helpmeet last time I checked. I am not sure who endowed you with the right to tell people what to think and what is correct on here. You can argue things from your perspective, but you have no more business than any other member to define who is allowed here or what is acceptable. fundiefarmer's marriage and beliefs are none of your business. You can argue a point with reason and intelligence, but you cannot tell people they do not belong. And yeah, I can say that even though I am not an admin or a helpmeet because this sort of behavior is what is not acceptable.

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You know, you seem to think you have the right to tell everyone on this board what FJ is and what to do here. You have been here like 5 minutes. You are neither an admin or a helpmeet last time I checked. I am not sure who endowed you with the right to tell people what to think and what is correct on here. You can argue things from your perspective, but you have no more business than any other member to define who is allowed here or what is acceptable. fundiefarmer's marriage and beliefs are none of your business. You can argue a point with reason and intelligence you cannot tell people they do not belong. And yeah, I can say that even though I am not an admin or a helpmeet because this sort of behavior is what is not acceptable.

Thanks, NellieBelle. I appreciate that. I am all for everyone believing what they want, but I love that largely, FJ is full of people who are willing to consider that things that don't work for them may work for others. I've learned a lot here from people who do things differently than I, and would hope others could do the same from me one day. The tone of the original post just rubbed me the wrong way so I appreciate your perspective.

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I would say you are right. From Pris' telling of her story:

The Lord gave me so much peace that day. This was especially important because I felt like David did not know me at all, and I really did not know David, but I felt total peace that I should just walk through the door that He had given me to begin a courtship with the goal of discerning whether David was the one for me and if I was the one for him. God’s peace flooded my soul as I realized He was the one who had opened this door and He would be the one to lead me as I walked through the door.

A few days later, I realized that my run around the lake may have been my last as a single young lady. Strangely, as I ran, I did not sense or feel emotions of the Lord’s presence as I had so often felt in times before. As I came to my special rock half way around the lake, I was praying for David and for my family, but I did not understand why there was no emotion. I hardly sensed God’s presence at all. It seemed especially odd because I had so looked forward to this last time around the lake before traveling back to Chicago and beginning a courtship relationship with David.

I cried out to the Lord as I headed back to the lodge: “Lord, I know that love is not an emotion! Please show me what you are doing.†Jogging down the road, the Lord reminded me of the road He trod to Calvary. That was certainly not a road of emotion. He prayed three times that, if it was possible, to have this cup pass from Him. However, God so loved the world that He sent His only son to lay down His life for us. True, sincere love is not an emotion, but it is laying down your life. I needed to lay down my life, my plans, my future, my all so that together, we could go farther for God.

That hurt a bit to read. Okay, more than a bit. Pris seems sweet, but naive. It's very sad she would feel she had to marry someone who she can feel doesn't love her. It seems to me like she felt the start of the courtship was the beginning of the end.

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That hurt a bit to read. Okay, more than a bit. Pris seems sweet, but naive. It's very sad she would feel she had to marry someone who she can feel doesn't love her. It seems to me like she felt the start of the courtship was the beginning of the end.

What gets me is that she really feels nothing besides that she doesn't know him. I wouldn't accept a casual date from someone I didn't know well enough to have emotions about (I would get to know them first). She basically accepts an offer of marriage from someone she's rather indifferent to.

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I would say you are right. From Pris' telling of her story:

The Lord gave me so much peace that day. This was especially important because I felt like David did not know me at all, and I really did not know David, but I felt total peace that I should just walk through the door that He had given me to begin a courtship with the goal of discerning whether David was the one for me and if I was the one for him. God’s peace flooded my soul as I realized He was the one who had opened this door and He would be the one to lead me as I walked through the door.

A few days later, I realized that my run around the lake may have been my last as a single young lady. Strangely, as I ran, I did not sense or feel emotions of the Lord’s presence as I had so often felt in times before. As I came to my special rock half way around the lake, I was praying for David and for my family, but I did not understand why there was no emotion. I hardly sensed God’s presence at all. It seemed especially odd because I had so looked forward to this last time around the lake before traveling back to Chicago and beginning a courtship relationship with David.

I cried out to the Lord as I headed back to the lodge: “Lord, I know that love is not an emotion! Please show me what you are doing.†Jogging down the road, the Lord reminded me of the road He trod to Calvary. That was certainly not a road of emotion. He prayed three times that, if it was possible, to have this cup pass from Him. However, God so loved the world that He sent His only son to lay down His life for us. True, sincere love is not an emotion, but it is laying down your life. I needed to lay down my life, my plans, my future, my all so that together, we could go farther for God.

Priscilla's story is one if the saddest things I've read in a long time.

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Fundamentalism creates an environment that removes the option of choice across the board. Just because this is something that works in my relationship, and that others find works in theirs, doesn't mean that I expect it for everyone else or for any children I may have in the future. (Also, please note that I simply said "have a place of leadership in my household", rather than the tone of your intimation that I believe a woman's rightful place is following her husband. I can't speak for whosever post you're originally referencing, but that was my comment.) They also seem to have extreme difficulty providing even basic necessities for their children or making responsible choices. The constructs that fundies force on others, and their unwillingness to consider or tolerate the different choices of others, are what I find intolerable...much like what rankled me about the tone of your response.

My point is, one part of the pie does not equal the whole.

If you were only speaking for yourself, what was your point? To be fair, I was speaking in generalities.

And no, I don't think you understand what choice means, because if you did you wouldn't feel like you need someone to make your choices. Speak for yourself and keep other women out of it, thanks.

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You know, you seem to think you have the right to tell everyone on this board what FJ is and what to do here. You have been here like 5 minutes. You are neither an admin or a helpmeet last time I checked. I am not sure who endowed you with the right to tell people what to think and what is correct on here. You can argue things from your perspective, but you have no more business than any other member to define who is allowed here or what is acceptable. fundiefarmer's marriage and beliefs are none of your business. You can argue a point with reason and intelligence, but you cannot tell people they do not belong. And yeah, I can say that even though I am not an admin or a helpmeet because this sort of behavior is what is not acceptable.

You're right. FundieFarmer's marriage IS none of my business. I have no idea why she brought up her own dynamic.

I'm not telling her what to believe. I can't tell a grown woman what to think. Unless debating means I'm bossing her around? In which case you and everyone else on this forum are telling others what to think simply by debating others.

Nellie, I found it especially ironic how you claimed that you don't agree with the previous hostile nature of FJ yet I find you to be one of the more "unwelcoming" members here--nearly every single one of your posts leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. I'm positive you feel the same way about me--so why engage me at all? Ignore me, foe me (I was going to add you sooner or later myself.) It isn't a competition of who has been here longer than whom--how ridiculous. How long I have been here also has little to do with my convo with FF. And speaking of that, does she need you to stand up for her?

Enough. Just foe me if you disagree with my posts. It is mutual.

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If you were only speaking for yourself, what was your point? To be fair, I was speaking in generalities.

And no, I don't think you understand what choice means, because if you did you wouldn't feel like you need someone to make your choices. Speak for yourself and keep other women out of it, thanks.

Good grief. I always thought of debate as a civilized exchange.

I'm wondering if maybe you didn't read my post clearly, because you feel so passionately about your own perspective. My point in speaking about myself is that just because someone makes a choice similar to what a fundie may make does not mean they deserve disrespect or that they subscribe to all fundamental ideals (or that they would even apply the choice as a fundie does). It was also to serve the purpose of warning against speaking in generalities, as you did.

You say that I don't believe in choice because I want someone else to make all of my choices for me. Again, I think you misread my post. I was very clear in saying "a place of leadership in my household". Wanting your husband to be a leader doesn't have to equate to total submission. It doesn't have to mean you're the next Michelle or Priscilla or whoever-have-you. It can simply mean you want a strong figure in that position. I see nothing wrong with that, just as I see nothing wrong with choosing a different relationship structure.

And, again, I understand this decision isn't for everyone. That's why I said that I abhor fundamentalists who push their views on everyone else, be that by trying to make it law or by overextended prostheletizing.

In your post to NellieBelle, you said you don't know why I brought up my relationship dynamic. I did so because I see something differently than you do, and as this is a discussion board, felt that it was not out of line to bring it up. I then answered your question because you asked me to.

I don't want to foe you, because I do find many of your posts entertaining and I do appreciate your perspective. I don't appreciate how you've spoken to me (or NellieBelle) if only because I find it rude and insulting, and I find the condescension to be largely unnecessary. I may not agree with you, but I am still speaking to you with respect. Frankly, I don't find you to be as open-minded as you tout yourself to be, especially in this exchange. If you have additional questions and would like to ask them courteously and with an open-mind, I will gladly answer them. However, you will probably get more fruitful answers elsewhere as I do not consider myself fundie, just conservative and traditional, which does not equate to fundamentalism.

Edited because unnecessary.

To the rest of FJ, I am *very* (mobile) sorry for this unintentional thread-jack.

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You are a nasty piece of work. I am only unwelcoming to those who intentionally seek to insult or degrade others, which seems to be your MO. What gives me the right to stand up for her is that this is a self-moderating community for the most part, and some people deserve support when attacked, which is exactly what you tend to do rather than communicate. People who are being attacked and told to go away deserve some backup, and I am more than happy to provide it. There is no competition about who has been around the longest, but somehow you think you have the authority to define a community to which you are new, which is quite odd. No one, no matter the tenure, has a right to that around here.

Fundiefarmer has every right to discuss her marriage and you have the right to disagree. However, there is a line between discussing and telling someone to go away- a very thick line.

Your posts leave a bad taste in many mouths.

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snip

To the rest of FJ, I am *very* (mobile) sorry for this unintentional thread-jack.

I am, as well. I just get super mad when people are mean for absolutely no reason.

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I'm not looking to intrude, but I think the original post eri is referencing is on the Sierra thread.

That particular individual has said 'According to the bible, the husband is in control' and 'She does not respect her husband's position as leader of the household'

Fundiefarmer, while eri's tone has taken a different turn over the course of the debate, I just wanted to point out that the fundamental difference in your case and what eri mentioned is that while your lifestyle gives you a choice of being the leader, of sharing the responsibility with your husband or having your husband in that position, there are some people on FJ who believe that the bible asks a man to control his woman, and asks the woman to submit to her man's leadership.

It's great that you're comfortable with your choice, but it's pretty horrifying to think that there are members with the same mentality as the fundies we snark on.

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I'm not looking to intrude, but I think the original post eri is referencing is on the Sierra thread.

That particular individual has said 'According to the bible, the husband is in control' and 'She does not respect her husband's position as leader of the household'

Fundiefarmer, while eri's tone has taken a different turn over the course of the debate, I just wanted to point out that the fundamental difference in your case and what eri mentioned is that while your lifestyle gives you a choice of being the leader, of sharing the responsibility with your husband or having your husband in that position, there are some people on FJ who believe that the bible asks a man to control his woman, and asks the woman to submit to her man's leadership.

It's great that you're comfortable with your choice, but it's pretty horrifying to think that there are members with the same mentality as the fundies we snark on.

Re: bolded, I think you're right. At least, that was the one I was thinking of.

ETA: I know that a big difference is choice. My initial point was that it's not reasonable to make a generality (especially one that is so rude) about every single person who follows a similar practice without acknowledging that they could be applying it differently.

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Not to intrude either because a lot of good points are being made.

That said, I've been rather itching to give eri a slap in the chops myself. She does tend to leave a very bad taste in my mouth too. I am grateful to Nelliebelle for stepping up to the challenge. She is so much better at deserved chop slapping than I am.

Sorry, eri. You are way too eager to jump to conclusions, and way too sweeping and judgmental in your comments to others. Please dial it back. A lot. Then we can perhaps talk nicely. I'm sure you mean well. :)

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Mr Pecan Thief is looking extremely happy being in between two brothers in one of the latest instagram pics. Don't remember their names and I'm guessing it's at Big Sandy. He looks happier than he does in family pics.

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Mr Pecan Thief is looking extremely happy being in between two brothers in one of the latest instagram pics. Don't remember their names and I'm guessing it's at Big Sandy. He looks happier than he does in family pics.

He probably not straining the way he normally does to produce the picture-perfect IBLP family. It must be a relief.

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Oh, my. :embarrassed:

Sorry to quote myself, but I've just been reliably informed that my old-fashioned Brit-speak means something quite incredibly vulgar in contemporary US slang. My apologies!

Edited version below.

Not to intrude either because a lot of good points are being made.

That said, I've been rather itching to give eri a slap in the chops rap on the nose myself. She does tend to leave a very bad taste in my mouth too. I am grateful to Nelliebelle for stepping up to the challenge. She is so much better at deserved chop slapping nose rapping than I am.

Sorry, eri. You are way too eager to jump to conclusions, and way too sweeping and judgmental in your comments to others. Please dial it back. A lot. Then we can perhaps talk nicely. I'm sure you mean well. :)

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Has anyone else seen the video about Resurrection Eggs in D&P's latest blog post? Robert is having children open what look like small plastic eggs, take out items such as a crown of thorns and a whip, and he then tells the kids how the items were used on Jesus. These children are young, some toddlers. Seems potentially traumatizing to me. Other opinions?

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Has anyone else seen the video about Resurrection Eggs in D&P's latest blog post? Robert is having children open what look like small plastic eggs, take out items such as a crown of thorns and a whip, and he then tells the kids how the items were used on Jesus. These children are young, some toddlers. Seems potentially traumatizing to me. Other opinions?

I saw some of it. It was so boring I couldn't watch much of it.

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Oh, my. :embarrassed:

Sorry to quote myself, but I've just been reliably informed that my old-fashioned Brit-speak means something quite incredibly vulgar in contemporary US slang. My apologies!

Edited version below.

I'm American, and I knew what you meant. Also I had no idea "slap to the chops" was dirty. I just thought it meant a smack to the face.

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I think I would feel more sorry for David if he wasn't such an arrogant ass. Pris genuinely seems like a sweet and caring woman, and I'm so sad for her.

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One thing I don't get about David being forced into marriage (which is awful) - why was David not being celibate for God an option? Jesus was celibate, as was Paul, and while I'm not sure Gothard counts as celibate he is unmarried. David is clearly fully signed-up to fundiedom and is a very sincere Christian, so why could he not decide to stay unmarried? For all we know, he could be asexual rather than gay.

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Has anyone else seen the video about Resurrection Eggs in D&P's latest blog post? Robert is having children open what look like small plastic eggs, take out items such as a crown of thorns and a whip, and he then tells the kids how the items were used on Jesus. These children are young, some toddlers. Seems potentially traumatizing to me. Other opinions?

That's pretty messed up, but how else can they communicate to the sinful children the price that Jesus paid for their black, horrible wickedness of which they must immediately repent or be burned in the flames for all eternity?

ETA: Palimpsest, I knew what you meant as well. And I am curious to know why "slap in the chops" is dirty in Americanese. But I have a dirty mind, so......

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