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Which kid will be the worst off in the end?


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rodgerdodger

Of course, I want none of these kids to suffer or go through any sort of pain. They didn't choose this life, and they are just forced to go along with everything Mullet and Boob tell them.

But, because of the abusive and restrictive Gothard lifestyle and having J'Chelle being emotionally vacant, it's going to leave some scars.

That being said, which child do you think will have the hardest time in life? Which one of the 19 will have the easiest life?

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I think Josie's going to have a very hard time. There comes a point when a kid is so spoiled they can't function. Jennifer and the other kids can become self-sufficient, but Josie probably won't learn.

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sockinshoe

As sad as it sounds, I think the older kids are going to be okay. Those who leave (and I'm losing hope that any will), will have incredible support from outside sources like FJ. By the time the howlers and lost girls are ready to bolt, fewer people may be following the Duggars, and they may have less support. I agree Josie's gonna struggle with not getting what she wants all the time. I imagine she may develop Michelle-levels of temper and self-absorption. I'm personally very worried for Jennifer and Jordyn, particularly Jordyn. Those two girls are completely forgotten in the line up. Neglect (emotional or physical) is a very sad thing and it can haunt a person for their entire life. Similarly neglected are some of the howlers (Jason, James, Justin). We never see them/hear from them and their parents barely acknowledge they exist.

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When I was watching last week's episode when the older girls went to the flower shop with the younger girls in tow, I thought are they taking these little ones because they think it will be fun for them, or because they are their minders and if they want to go out, fine, but don't forget to take your little charges. So when the older kids get married and leave, who is going to do the homeschooling with them and watch them etc. I can't imagine J'chelle suddenly feeling maternal.

Josie, though they pretend she doesn't have any issues, I am hoping secretly is seeing a speech pathologist and occupational therapist.

As for the howlers, James I have the most hope for. He has these looks and says things that seem to imply that he knows this whole life he is following his b.s.

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ILoveJellybeans

Jordyn. She has been neglected her whole life. Or Jennifer, she just looks like she has given up on life already.

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Walking Cat Bed

The younger howlers and the lost girls. By the time they reach their teens, all of their sister-moms will probably be married and gone. It'll just be J'Chelle and J'Boob. UNLESS one (or a few) older kids defect, either officially or unofficially, and maintain contact with the youngins, their needs won't be met.

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Fiveredandblack

The one who concerns me most is Jackson. At first he just annoyed me. But now I fear that he may have some needs that are not being met, either developmental, emotional or physical. He has always been loud and boisterous and excitable, hence the annoying bit. And the only one who seems to want anything to really do with him is Johanna. But being lost in the pack, I doubt Jackson will receive any assistance. And coming into puberty will not help if there is a problem. I feel and fear for all of them. I hope they all make it through life. Jackson especially.

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Four is Enough

The entire middle group. I think the first five or six are ok. Firmly enmeshed in the lifestyle. They got the best of their parents. The youngers are being cared for, not by Michelle or Jim Bob, but their sister-moms.. and have gotten care, feeding, kindness. It's the ones in the middle, who haven't had attention from either group, that I worry about. People keep saying "feral" in discussing this family. I agree. These kids are uneducated, poorly disciplined, lacking sense.. might as well turn them all loose in the wild.

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Rescinded and Mended

I think Josiah needs to get complete,y out of there. He seems like he's struggling a lot. His relationship with Jim Bob seems really strained, and I don't think I've ever even seen him interact with Michelle on camera. And why do they send him away so much?

Seems like he'd be better off hitting the door running and not looking back.

Off topic, but I'm wondering if one reason we see Michelle and other family members constantly hanging on to Josie on-camera is because she is having way more issues than many of us realize. Maybe she's having explosive meltdowns off-camera, or issues with fine motor skills (such as when we saw Jill feeding her), and Michelle's way of handling this is by insisting that everyone needs to coddle her more instead of acknowledging the problem and getting Josie the help that she needs.

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Cleopatra7
The entire middle group. I think the first five or six are ok. Firmly enmeshed in the lifestyle. They got the best of their parents. The youngers are being cared for, not by Michelle or Jim Bob, but their sister-moms.. and have gotten care, feeding, kindness. It's the ones in the middle, who haven't had attention from either group, that I worry about. People keep saying "feral" in discussing this family. I agree. These kids are uneducated, poorly disciplined, lacking sense.. might as well turn them all loose in the wild.

I agree with this. The oldest kids will probably be content to exist within the fundamentalist subculture or certain aspects of mainstream conservatism. JD and Joseph seem to have marketable skills of some sort, although without additional certification in a trade, I fear that they won't be able to aspire to anything higher than "jack of all trades day laborer." But the howlers don't seem to have the work ethic that JD and Joseph do and I doubt that a right-wing think tank is going to give them positions. I don't see how JB can give businesses to all those boys, especially given how they live in a small rural town that can only absorb so many car lots and mini-marts. I guess Jed and Jer could be "Christian filmmakers" since they have the name and if Kirk Cameron's career is any indicator, fundamentalist Christians don't have a problem spending money on terrible movies.

I'm not sure about the other howlers, since they're all lost in the shuffle and don't seem to have any skills. James and Jackson have always pinged me as having some kind of ADHD or some other issue that makes it difficult for them to focus. Since the Duggars never put much emphasis on education or even getting to places on time, I seriously doubt that they've been instilled with a work ethic or the other skills necessary to succeed in the non-reality TV world. Maybe this is bad for me to say, but it wouldn't surprise me if some of the howlers eventually become angry and frustrated and then lash out at their parents or society, like child stars gone wild (e.g., robbing a liquor store as a cry for help).

As for the lost girls, I think JB would make sure that they get husbands that he approves of, but they may suffer from emotional problems because of their childhood neglect. They could possibly even turn their rage in on themselves through eating disorders or other forms of self-harm. Josie may end up like Priscilla Waller, eager to please and not very bright, married to a man who doesn't like or respect her, and lacking the insight to understand what has gone wrong. Either that, or she'll just end up stuck at home with JB and Michelle as "the baby," even when she's forty years old. I think the Duggar parents have really set all these kids up to fail, albeit for different reasons.

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SassyPants

When Josie is 20, JB and M will be mid 60s.

How long will they give a crap?

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anjulibai

I don't see a lot of good outcomes for the majority of them. Worse is relatively - they'll all have it hard in different ways.

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freejoyannatoo

Although Jill getting married was very tough on the younger members of her team (James and Jennifer) I have actually been quite impressed with the way Jill's stayed close to them. And I think Derrick has quite a nice big-bro type of relationship with James. So on the whole I'm less concerned about those two, even though Jennifer does seem like an unhappy little girl a lot of the time.

Whoever was in Jessa's team, though, must be suffering big time. I'm guessing it was Jordyn and Justin? I don't think Jessa was ever really interested in them, but at least she was THERE.

My main concern though is for Josiah. There is something very wrong. He and Boob seem to have a terrible relationship and his closeness to Jinger must have been strained by him being away at bootcamp for so long.

Jinger worries me too. She's lost Jessa. She is dong a good job of pretending to have drunk the Kool Aid but behind that upbeat persona is a troubled young woman imo.

Actually, when you rule out Jill (Daddy's favourite, made an excellent marriage, likes the lifestyle, strong insensitive personality) and JD + Joe (hard-working down-to-earth types, fit the mould Boob has prepared for them pretty well), all the rest of them look to have at least some problems and to be likely to struggle later on.

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It's hard to say. I think the oldest are already pretty damaged...their adolescence was so scrutinized, and their parents put a lot of pressure on them to perform for the cameras. I think it's easy to forget that Michelle and Jim Bob are really hardcore stage parents. They parade their kids around for a buck any chance they can get. The kids have no say and have to behave how they're supposed to.

I can see Joy, Jinger, Joseph doing pretty well.

The little girls and Jackson probably worry me the most? They all get along now, but what will it be like when they're all teenagers in an otherwise empty house with Boob and Jchelle? I'll eat my hat if a single one of them has a good, or even friendly, relationship with Michelle by the time Hannie or Jackson are ready to age out. :roll:

I'm curious to see which way James will go. He has always seemed kind of different (in a good way, I think). He's still so young, though, so it could still go in one of many different directions...

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Sundaymorning

I think this will also really depend on what life will throw at them.

As of right now, none of the kids is really equipped to deal with though situations.

The girls will be fine as long as they find a good and kind husband with a steady job. The boys will be fine if Boob will provide them with a job and as long as they find nice women who will submit to them and never really question their way of life.

But difficult situations like job loss, medical problems which would require to stop breeding, and spouses who will question the fundie dogmas could pose a real challenge to them.

I think the worst off will be the ones who won't be able to adapt to new circumstances, but who that will be is impossible to tell right now.

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SayWhat

Josie will always have the stigma of being a miracle baby, a poster child for political cause. This will make people resent and dislike her and cause people to love her for no other reason than the circumstances of her birth.

She will have a difficult life journey.

The lost girls and boys will need to get over the fact that their parents are :cray-cray: . The adult children seem to have bought into the :cray-cray: and they will continue to as long the monetary blessings are flowing and the leg humpers continue to hump.

I do worry about Josiah & Joy. Joy is far more Joy-less since she moved into fundy young lady mode. Josiah has been absent and at ALERT for so long and in the few times he is on camera he looks so physically gaunt, like an old man.

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LittleOleMe

I agree with this. The oldest kids will probably be content to exist within the fundamentalist subculture or certain aspects of mainstream conservatism. JD and Joseph seem to have marketable skills of some sort, although without additional certification in a trade, I fear that they won't be able to aspire to anything higher than "jack of all trades day laborer." But the howlers don't seem to have the work ethic that JD and Joseph do and I doubt that a right-wing think tank is going to give them positions. I don't see how JB can give businesses to all those boys, especially given how they live in a small rural town that can only absorb so many car lots and mini-marts. I guess Jed and Jer could be "Christian filmmakers" since they have the name and if Kirk Cameron's career is any indicator, fundamentalist Christians don't have a problem spending money on terrible movies.

I'm not sure about the other howlers, since they're all lost in the shuffle and don't seem to have any skills. James and Jackson have always pinged me as having some kind of ADHD or some other issue that makes it difficult for them to focus. Since the Duggars never put much emphasis on education or even getting to places on time, I seriously doubt that they've been instilled with a work ethic or the other skills necessary to succeed in the non-reality TV world. Maybe this is bad for me to say, but it wouldn't surprise me if some of the howlers eventually become angry and frustrated and then lash out at their parents or society, like child stars gone wild (e.g., robbing a liquor store as a cry for help).

As for the lost girls, I think JB would make sure that they get husbands that he approves of, but they may suffer from emotional problems because of their childhood neglect. They could possibly even turn their rage in on themselves through eating disorders or other forms of self-harm. Josie may end up like Priscilla Waller, eager to please and not very bright, married to a man who doesn't like or respect her, and lacking the insight to understand what has gone wrong. Either that, or she'll just end up stuck at home with JB and Michelle as "the baby," even when she's forty years old. I think the Duggar parents have really set all these kids up to fail, albeit for different reasons.

Absolutely! She will end up exactly like Pris.

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calimojo

despite the neglect that Jordyn has suffered that we all witnessed, she seems to have a fairly sunny disposition. Jenny seems more stressed and unhappy, imo. Jenny was also very young when Josie was born, and while she had already been offloaded to one of the sister moms by then, I think she was still not getting her needs met. She is a pretty little girl, but always seems sad. I remember her having some melt downs when they were doing some of their family activities while they were living in Little Rock. Once when they were touring a boat or was it a submarine, stands out. She was terrified to go down the hatch, but she had to do it anyway.

I think living in Little Rock was immensely stressful for the family. I really think in hindsight it would have been better to let Michelle stay there on her own, and let the rest of the kids stay home at the TTH and keep to a normal routine. They could have taken a few kids at a time to visit and could have rented a small house with 2-3 bedrooms or an extended stay hotel.

It was obvious that the little kids were completely without direction or limits. There were so many times where I was amazed no one was seriously injured by the rough housing, running wild, etc.

JimBob seemed to try some excursions to keep the kids occupied, but I think that was largely in service to the show, not to really help the kids.

I think all the kids suffered set backs during this time. I don't think the kids had good education, I think whatever routine they may have had, was just completely lost, I think the really little ones, like Jordyn and Jenny were neglected. I doubt they had a good sleep routine, and who knows if they even had a good feeding routine.

What I find most noticeable from the first few specials, is how sloppy and even dirty the kids often look. In the first several specials, the kids were clean and neat. Every hair on the boys head was perfectly in place and mimicked Jim Bobs do. The girls were starched and pressed into Jumpers and their hair was tied neatly back in bows. They all looked very clean. True their fashion was horrible and the home permed hair on the girls was terrible, but they were neat and clean.

Now, they all look sloppy. The boys wear faded, sometimes stained or torn t-shirts. The girls from Johanna on down look like they never get their hair combed. Their clothing looks messy, wrinkled and often like they have been slept in.

I am glad they aren't still wearing the frumper dresses and the neatly pressed khaki pants and collard shirts, but I don't understand why their hygiene seems to have declined.

Back when they were in the little ranch house with 1 bathroom, I could understand that they couldn't all get a bath/shower daily. But now they have several bathrooms, and they have several older kids who could be helping the younger kids get showered, and into clean clothes everyday. I know kids get dirty when they run and play. When my kids were little, I always knew that when they came in from playing and were super dirty, they were probably have a great time. But getting dirty, and staying dirty are two different things.

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Toothfairy

Hard to say. The older kids probably got the worse abuse. But they know what it's like not to have much and live off rice in a three bedroom home. The younger kids don't get any attention at all from their parents and was raised by their sister moms. They didn't experience what the older girls experienced when they were young. Jana had a buddy around Jordyns age. The younger kids aren't programmed like the older ones. They get away with a lot more shit. I think Josie and maybe Jana would be worst off in the end. Josie because she's the baby and the poster child. But JimChelle gives her more attention than they ever did any of their children. There comes a time when she'll have to grow up. Her siblings might also start to resent her. Then I think of Josh and how fucked up his life is. Then Jana, JD, Josiah and Joy. It's hard to tell.

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SassyPants
despite the neglect that Jordyn has suffered that we all witnessed, she seems to have a fairly sunny disposition. Jenny seems more stressed and unhappy, imo. Jenny was also very young when Josie was born, and while she had already been offloaded to one of the sister moms by then, I think she was still not getting her needs met. She is a pretty little girl, but always seems sad. I remember her having some melt downs when they were doing some of their family activities while they were living in Little Rock. Once when they were touring a boat or was it a submarine, stands out. She was terrified to go down the hatch, but she had to do it anyway.

I think living in Little Rock was immensely stressful for the family. I really think in hindsight it would have been better to let Michelle stay there on her own, and let the rest of the kids stay home at the TTH and keep to a normal routine. They could have taken a few kids at a time to visit and could have rented a small house with 2-3 bedrooms or an extended stay hotel.

It was obvious that the little kids were completely without direction or limits. There were so many times where I was amazed no one was seriously injured by the rough housing, running wild, etc.

JimBob seemed to try some excursions to keep the kids occupied, but I think that was largely in service to the show, not to really help the kids.

I think all the kids suffered set backs during this time. I don't think the kids had good education, I think whatever routine they may have had, was just completely lost, I think the really little ones, like Jordyn and Jenny were neglected. I doubt they had a good sleep routine, and who knows if they even had a good feeding routine.

What I find most noticeable from the first few specials, is how sloppy and even dirty the kids often look. In the first several specials, the kids were clean and neat. Every hair on the boys head was perfectly in place and mimicked Jim Bobs do. The girls were starched and pressed into Jumpers and their hair was tied neatly back in bows. They all looked very clean. True their fashion was horrible and the home permed hair on the girls was terrible, but they were neat and clean.

Now, they all look sloppy. The boys wear faded, sometimes stained or torn t-shirts. The girls from Johanna on down look like they never get their hair combed. Their clothing looks messy, wrinkled and often like they have been slept in.

I am glad they aren't still wearing the frumper dresses and the neatly pressed khaki pants and collard shirts, but I don't understand why their hygiene seems to have declined.

Back when they were in the little ranch house with 1 bathroom, I could understand that they couldn't all get a bath/shower daily. But now they have several bathrooms, and they have several older kids who could be helping the younger kids get showered, and into clean clothes everyday. I know kids get dirty when they run and play. When my kids were little, I always knew that when they came in from playing and were super dirty, they were probably have a great time. But getting dirty, and staying dirty are two different things.

They look disheveled because no one cares and is stepping up to teach, coach, train, guide and mentor. It's ultimately JB and M's responsibilities but this is another fine example of the fact that no couple can adequately and successfully parent and meet the needs of so many kids.

Jill, Jessa and Anna's homes seem to be tidy and neat, so I'm guessing those girls do have some idea of cleanliness, order, organization and routine.

I know many 20 somethings who are quite lax in the housekeeping dept...I'll give the adult Duggars living outside the TTH some credit in that area.

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whoviana

Josiah and Joy have it pretty hard right now, they will have to run for it and go into therapy to recover from it all. Jordyn, the Invisible Child. Has anyone of you seen the movie Invisible? It is possible to grow up to be an invisible kid in any form of upbringing, all it takes is taking the kid for granted, not paying any attention to them at all, do superficial communication if necessary and not even know who that child is. It was a movie about a very violent girl and a golden boy who supposedly had everything someone can wish for, but didn't. They were both thoroughly unhappy and miserable. God have mercy on the Invisibles. :|

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FloraKitty35

They look disheveled because no one cares and is stepping up to teach, coach, train, guide and mentor. It's ultimately JB and M's responsibilities but this is another fine example of the fact that no couple can adequately and successfully parent and meet the needs of so many kids.

Jill, Jessa and Anna's homes seem to be tidy and neat, so I'm guessing those girls do have some idea of cleanliness, order, organization and routine.

I know many 20 somethings who are quite lax in the housekeeping dept...I'll give the adult Duggars living outside the TTH some credit in that area.

Jill and Jessa probably had to do a lot of the housekeeping for Mullet.

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VixenToast
I think this will also really depend on what life will throw at them.

As of right now, none of the kids is really equipped to deal with though situations.

The girls will be fine as long as they find a good and kind husband with a steady job. The boys will be fine if Boob will provide them with a job and as long as they find nice women who will submit to them and never really question their way of life.

But difficult situations like job loss, medical problems which would require to stop breeding, and spouses who will question the fundie dogmas could pose a real challenge to them.

I think the worst off will be the ones who won't be able to adapt to new circumstances, but who that will be is impossible to tell right now.

I completely agree. You reminded me of this.

“In the end what will happen will be what has happened whenever a

civilization breaks up. The people who have brains and courage

come through and the ones who haven't are winnowed out. At least,

it has been interesting, if not comfortable, to witness a

Gotterdammerung.'

'A what?'

'A dusk of the gods. Unfortunately, we Southerners did think we

were gods.â€

― Margaret Mitchell, Gone with the Wind

I think Jinger has it rough and is already struggling. Josh seems like a chubby robot resigned to life. John David could not handle a questioning, difficult wife as he comes off as a mans man. Jana would be very happy living a private life after the gravy train comes to a halt. Jill seems well adjusted but clingy. Jessa could handle anything. Joseph very well may have a good life. Josiah is going to struggle and we all know it. He needs to keep his inner fire burning no matter how hard they try to break him. He is the one I worry for. Joy is a sweet girl and I think she has common sense enough to get through life happily if not successfully. The twins want to be filmmakers and I want them to chase their dreams. Jason idk. James seems to have mellowed out, but in a sad way almost. Perhaps it's just from losing Jill. Justin idk. Jackson idk. Hannie on down could go either way.

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apandaaries

What a question! I'm worried about most of them, except Jill, who I think is happy with the Kool Aid and found a husband with an education and a smart mom. Here's hoping a better model of womanhood will help her out.

After reading Cynthia Jeub's posts, I now worry that Jennifer might be at risk for self-harm, now or in the future. She is so tragically neglected (as most of them are), but she has the saddest eyes. I can only recall seeing her happy when she's near Jill, her real mother. We all know how neglected poor Jordyn is, but she still seems so remarkably happy. I hope she is able to continue with that sunny disposition; maybe her friendship with Kenzie will help with that.

I worry about all the howlers, too. Again, no structure and no connection to their birth parents...but some of them seem to be connected to each other. Josiah, however, has obviously incurred some serious wrath from J'Boob and J'chelle. (snip) JoyAnna now seems Joy-less...she used to be the cool kid shooting hoops from a skateboard! But fundie womanhood is where fun goes to die.

James is FAR behind in math, and who knows how educationally deficient these kids are? We get hints, but they are going to need a LOT of remedial work to ever hope to catch up...but since education isn't valued in their community, that may never be resolved. (I'm still dying inside about Jessa, who'd been in charge of the kids' education, saying she just called 'em flowers. So this willfully ignorant young woman lead her siblings in learning? I'm an educator. This pains me.)

CinderJana doesn't seem to have any spark of life. She seems so beaten down. I wonder if Jinger is eating. I wonder if either parent can recognize their howlers by name. And Josie's life will obviously be hindered by her parents' and siblings' infantilizing of her (unless, as someone else suggested, this is the Duggar way of hiding preemie issues).

These poor kids.

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