Is divorce the only path to freedom for the Duggar daughters?

[apandaaries]

There is an amzing story on patheos about a woman who courted and married a man involved in ministry. They had serious issues developing their independence after marriage; they had no experience with decision making. Eventually they moved away from the family and began their own...eventually the husband realized he was transgender and she realized she was a lesbian. They transitioned and moved and the kids have been fine. It's a really extreme example, but it gives me so much hope for the fundies. I'll include the link since it's to patheos (still new here! let me know if that's an issue): http://www.patheos.com/blogs/permission ... ealed.html

[calimojo]

I think the repercussions from Divorce would be very hard for the Duggar kids. Yet again, the departing spouse would have a wealth of info that I am sure the Duggars wouldn't not want to come to the surface, so that might encourage "playing nice" during custody and property negotiations. I think the Duggar child, especially if it is one of the girls would be back under JB's headship, or the headship of the oldest surviving Son. They would probably be relegated to the role of housekeeper of the main house, and in addition to raising their own children, they would be expected to babysit and raise the other kids as well.

Of course, if the kids actually have their own money, it might not happen that way. Jess could settle with Ben and still have a good amount of money, potentially, and could avoid going back to the TTH

[apandaaries]

I hope you are right that Jana has made a choice not to court because she is planning her exit. :) I can see how Jana might be more likely than the other girls to reject the Quiverful way of life. Since she is one of the oldest kids, she probably remembers a time when life wasn't so chaotic and may have quietly reached the conclusion on her own that having 20 kids isn't for her. I have heard that often the people who grew up doing a lot of childcare for their siblings from an early age end up not wanting children of their own because they feel like they've already filled that caregiving instinct.

My great-grandmother had 8 children. The eldest daughter refused to get married; she had no desire to keep working so hard at home. She became a high school teacher instead and spent her summers travelling. I'd love to see Jana find some form of freedom.

[Mama Mia]

I only very casually follow her Instagram page since I don't even have an Instagram account, so I probably miss seeing those comments. It's too bad that people are acting like that. It's a missed opportunity. A sincere effort to educate them about things like evolution and the true history of the Bible might potentially make an impact. I really do not think that Jessa, Ben, Jill, or Derrick are bad people - they are just genuinely ignorant (in the sense of being uneducated and unaware of the alternatives, NOT stupid).

My experience in trying to reach people who are in the mental prison of the Jehovah's Witness cult is that a lot of them really just don't even know any other way to be because they have been forced to avoid outside information that contradicts their views. They are constantly told by their leaders to hate and fear "the world" and that outside information is dangerous. The fact that the Duggars are trying to interact with the outside world rather than hiding from it gives me hope that at some point some of them will open their eyes and want something better for themselves.

Wouldn't comments about evolution or Bible history just come across, to them, like, being handed some church pamphlet as you're walking down the street? Something most people just don't pay attention to?

I think they are probably more likely to expand their world view by making real or on- line friends with people who have some common interests and views, but live a different lifestyle - and kind of slowly grow from there.

I don't know, it seems like starting out with " hey , everything you think about the origins or the Universe is wrong" even if put politely, is unlikely to get much buy in, from anybody.

[Toothfairy]

Divorce is terrible but it happens. I think if a Duggar kid divorce it would bring bad press. Especially from the Duggar fans. These people live in la la land. They think their whole life is a damn fairytale. They think if you follow what God and your parents tell you then god will bring a godly spouse to your door step, get married, have sex and babies and live happily ever after. Unfortunately this is far from true. Divorce can happen to anyone. Getting a convent marriage isn't going to prevent divorce or prevent your spouse from cheating or doing ungodly things. I think a divorce would hit these girls in the face so hard. They waited all these years for the perfect man saved their hearts and their hymen only for the fairytale to end. So whats the point of courting, saving yourself and all this other shit for it to come crashing down. It doesn't help that these girls have to depend on others to live. They have no life skills or education. They could set their own path but that would go against everything they believe in. I do think a divorce would shut the Duggar thumpers up.

[Coldwinterskies]

Considering how common divorce is, I really see it as pretty much inevitable at least some of the Duggar kids will end up divorced even if it might be a little less common among them than the general public.

[Freefundies]

Freeing Fundies is akin to watching those Amish leaving their families shows. You would have to completely shed the whole lifestyle, friends, family, even some people who work certain jobs would have to leave them. I don't see Jill ever broaching this subject in her life unless Derick really turns into a monster (beating, drugs, alcohol or just up and leaving her and he isn't that type right now). Ben and Jessa are a bit more questionable to me. I see they love one another and have chemistry but they are 2 kids at heart wanting a bit of freedom and this was the choice to take to get it. Jessa is heavy into the Koolaid but she really has some strong beliefs but if Ben continues down the path to becoming a minister I just don't see Jessa as a ministry wifetype. She is very opinionated, can be bossy, snarky and in order to be a ministers wife you need o show a good bit of restraint and she is not/nowhere near that stage. I would feel that the lifestyle would be very confining to Jessa (she would do so much better if not in a fundie church but a more progressive one). It will be interesting to see if Ben keeps to ministering course or veers off into another direction. Watching these 2 kids grow together will be interesting because Jessa has moxy and could pull off a coup to a degree if she wanted to if she really got tired of living that life.

[Coldwinterskies]

It would not surprise me if Jill stays in the lifestyle, but I think even someone like Jill could potentially end up leaving if something happens that causes her to be disillusioned with it.

For example, for all we know, maybe having such a difficult birth this time has caused some doubts to seep into Jill's mind about the whole quiverfull thing. It might take years for her to be able to admit those doubts to herself, let alone go public with it, but I think that it is possible that even someone who seems totally 100% committed might have doubts.

[Mela99]

The only other path to freedom is Mullet and Boob spontaneously combusting from AquaNet use and thus freeing all the children.

[Eleemosynary]

If a spouse really wanted to get out of a covenant marriage and moving wasn't an option, wouldn't commiting adultery themselves be a way out?

[HarleyQuinn]

If one of the Duggar girls divorce, wouldn't that put them back under Boob's headship?

He'd probably force them to move back into the TTH as well. Back in the girl's room.

ETA: In regards to Jill in particular, I don't think she'll ever leave Quiverfull. She's far too smug about it. Bragging about not preventing children in any way, bragging about the covenant marriage. She's a koolaid drinker for life.

[nana sew dear]

People used to get divorced ALL THE TIME! Anyone who says differently hasn't done their homework. In addition, other couple stayed married even though they couldn't stand each other.

Just Sayin'

[JMO]

I've been wondering what Jessa would do if she was a single mom. At first I assumed it would be a beautician/aesthestician but at the gym yesterday it occurred to me that she'd make a good pilates instructor. Maybe even some combo of the two! Jill would probably end up living under JB's headship again and living at TTH raising her kids like she was raised. The only way she would veer from that is if she was really disillusioned with the fundie life style. I could see Derrick realizing 3 kids in that he had no idea what it would be like to have 3 under 3 and that needed to go fundie lite together.

[Coldwinterskies]

He'd probably force them to move back into the TTH as well. Back in the girl's room.

ETA: In regards to Jill in particular, I don't think she'll ever leave Quiverfull. She's far too smug about it. Bragging about not preventing children in any way, bragging about the covenant marriage. She's a koolaid drinker for life.

To me she just comes across as a very naive and sheltered kid. She hasn't seen enough of the world to even begin to grasp how her parents might be wrong, so of course she is arrogant about it. Maybe someday she will come to realize the world is much larger and more complex than she thinks and Daddy doesn't really have all the answers.

[FaceTheShadow]

Could be. But another thing could happen if they filed divorce: JimBob and J'Chelle would probably try to drag them back into the Duggar household, especially in the case of one of the married sisters whose house is just near the Duggar property. Unless the girls would run away pretty quick after the divorce, worst would come to them. Who knows, divorce would have them end up being sent away on some reformation camp and we all know horrible things happen from there.

[DIRTYPILLOWS]

No. I don't think any of the Duggars will Divorce. My family was not fundies but we were raised strictly. We went to a very very strict Christian school where you were to never go to the movies, watch tv, listen to the radio, or even allowed to wear something on a shirt with a label or anything on the shirt, just plain, dresses everyday and such.

My dad had an affair and left us. The principal of the school brought my sisters in on the first day to talk with them. He said that he agreed with the divorce but we were treated as sub par broken family girls. Many of our friends could no longer be our friends all because of our fathers decision. We were treated unfairly and unjust. Thankfully we left that school.

[Idolatry]

There are lots of ways to leave. They could go to a normal school, like I did, make allies on the outside, and do it slowly. No one has gone to a normal school so far, but I would imagine Boob would allow it for hair or mechanic work or something.

Or they could do it FLDS style, cold turkey. Reach out for help at a non-cult. Live with someone. Get some skills. Wait some tables, get on their feet. The Duggar kids certainly have enough travel and worldly contacts and worldly family members that this wouldn't be hard.

Oh, and any one of them could leave tomorrow with a camera crew, a bunch of producers, and a storyline ready in days.

Plenty of ex-fundie kids have done this, including plenty on these very boards who have escaped worse. It happens every day. Heck, some of the older kids may have been working on this plan for years and the cameras just complicated things. This takes bravery. For some kids, you know all along you need to figure out how to get out (me). For some, it keeps piling on until you reach your breaking point (my oldest brother). This scandal might be that breaking point.

[theinvisiblegirl]

There are lots of ways to leave. They could go to a normal school, like I did, make allies on the outside, and do it slowly. No one has gone to a normal school so far, but I would imagine Boob would allow it for hair or mechanic work or something.

Or they could do it FLDS style, cold turkey. Reach out for help at a non-cult. Live with someone. Get some skills. Wait some tables, get on their feet. The Duggar kids certainly have enough travel and worldly contacts and worldly family members that this wouldn't be hard.

Oh, and any one of them could leave tomorrow with a camera crew, a bunch of producers, and a storyline ready in days.

Plenty of ex-fundie kids have done this, including plenty on these very boards who have escaped worse. It happens every day. Heck, some of the older kids may have been working on this plan for years and the cameras just complicated things. This takes bravery. For some kids, you know all along you need to figure out how to get out (me). For some, it keeps piling on until you reach your breaking point (my oldest brother). This scandal might be that breaking point.

At this point, the only Duggar spin-off I'd probably watch would be a "Breaking Amish"/"Breaking the Faith" like show about some Duggar kids leaving Fundie life. I doubt TLC would put that on their network if they were still supporting JB&M, though.

[Toothfairy]

These girls have no education, skills, or anyway to support themselves. Divorcing would probably put them back where they started, at home waiting for prince charming. I think it would be extremely hard to get remarried again. Jessa and Jill are very brainwashed. A divorce would means the perfect fairytale ends. That daddy wasn't right in marrying them. Divorce is sinful. I would hope that they would get divorce if their partner became abusive emotionally, sexually, physically

[polecat]

I wonder that as well.

In theory, yes. In practice, maybe not. Certainly boob would want to take control again, but if the woman in question were somehow able to either get help (financial and social support) or a job on her own, she could launch herself outside their sphere. That's a pretty big "if" though.

It's not easy to get out particularly for a woman, and I think that's exactly the way they want it. Additionally, the woman will need to WANT to get out, and sometimes, the brainwashing is so effective that they simply don't. Or think the evils they don't know are worse than the evils they do know. :cry:

[Idolatry]

These girls have no education, skills, or anyway to support themselves. Divorcing would probably put them back where they started, at home waiting for prince charming. I think it would be extremely hard to get remarried again. Jessa and Jill are very brainwashed. A divorce would means the perfect fairytale ends. That daddy wasn't right in marrying them. Divorce is sinful. I would hope that they would get divorce if their partner became abusive emotionally, sexually, physically

None of this means they can't leave. FLDS women do it all the time with way less resources. Posters on these boards have done it. Any of the Duggar kids could leave this religion and take care of themselves, if they chose to do so. Don't sell them short like that.

[Avalondaughter]

Am I the only one who finds the Duggars' need for covenant marriage amusing?

They are so sure that their way of courting and married is failproof and that only people who traditionally date and have physical contact before marriage divorce. If their method is so foolproof, then why the need for a covenant marriage? You're making it impossible to divorce, but you are not ever going to divorce because you did your courtship correctly, right?

[Idolatry]

Am I the only one who finds the Duggars' need for covenant marriage amusing?

They are so sure that their way of courting and married is failproof and that only people who traditionally date and have physical contact before marriage divorce. If their method is so foolproof, then why the need for a covenant marriage? You're making it impossible to divorce, but you are not ever going to divorce because you did your courtship correctly, right?

It's also not very biblical to enter into a covenant with the state about your marriage when you believe god control it.

[Hooligan]

And yet the divorce rate for Evangelical Christians is the highest of any group according to a study by Baylor University (a Southern Baptist University) christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/february-web-only/are-evangelicals-bad-for-marriage.html

[polecat]

The only other path to freedom is Mullet and Boob spontaneously combusting from AquaNet use and thus freeing all the children.

I'd pay to watch this. Someone get TLC on it asap.