Week III, Botkin marriage seminar live blog

[meda]

Ok sorry for the fail last week, audio sucked and the headship and I were in the process of moving. I just had a lovely long recap of David and Nadia's court ship story vanish. Grrr...I will try to recap it AGAIN later

Tonight, Ben and Audri's story.

[meda]

I wonder how strapped they are for cash, these webinars with the power points are far cheaper than videos to produce. At 29 bucks for this, the return is much higher. T

[meda]

First question: when do you inform the girl that a young man has talked to her father? Is it after the vetting process, or when the father thinks he is a good candidate, but without mentioning his name?

Geoff does not answer the question, just says go by cases by case basis. How well have you prepared your doughter to handle complex emotions?

Should you ask your daughters opinion on who would be good suitor?

Geoff does tell E and AS when a young man approaches him, and he asks their opinion about the young men

[meda]

Why do my post keep vanishing????

anywho, Ben jumped when Dr. Vernier said to during his courtship. Seek the girls fathers advice on how to approach his daughter

Ben quote: It means something to a guy knowing that a girl would only leave her fathers house for you and no other reason" Yuck

[TVR]

I would have thought it would mean a lot more if a girl could do anything she wants and still chooses to marry you?

[meda]

Cute pic of Ben and Audri playing music together. Dr. Vernier set up music projects for them to work on together.

He and Audri "put everything out on the table" when discussing marriage. Talked about theology, martyrdom, and biology. Sexy

He wanted to make sure Audri knew "just how sinful I really am" Many bits of humor here

[meda]

all of Ben's siblings wrote a paper for Audri about Ben's weaknesses. Audri's siblings did the same thing for Ben. They didn't want to gloss over anything

Q: how much should a young man share about his past sin or moral failings?

Ben answer: if there is anything in your past that would affect the marriage and change the father's decision, it should be shared.

Fathers seem to have ultimate veto power over this

[Destiny]

I would have thought it would mean a lot more if a girl could do anything she wants and still chooses to marry you?

Choices for teh wimminz? Down that path is becoming a witch and a lesbian!

Jokes aside, I can't imagine marrying someone in these circumstances...I want to be loved for me, not for the chance to take dominion over the world, advance the kingdom, and make babies. Sure, not every marriage works out, but I would hate wondering if my husband loved me for me or for my uterus and fantastic cookies.

[meda]

Audri: many of their conversations were over the phone. (gee, just like secular teenage romances everywhere)

apparently they talked a lot about dying to Christ, and they prayed every time they talked on the phone. It was important for Audri to see how Ben talked to the Lord. (that's a bit presumptuous)

Dr. vernier's guidelines adout what they could discuss: everything was long distance, in the 4 months they discussed, it was phone and email. Only 1 week long visit in person during the courtship. Only time they saw each other in person from the time they began communicating to the time they were engaged.

(they did know each other before this0

[meda]

Apparently Audri spent the week interviewing the fam about Ben.

These people are far too serious.

Geoff: Do not rush or push the situation, help protect the girl's objectivity. This is great, Geof told Audri that it would be difficult to marry into the Botkins because they are a persecuted family. Many perople hate what they preach (true that) and ben and the girls have been persecuted. He tried to prepare her for the reality of marriage to Ben and his mission (uh huh)

[meda]

Now we are back on how to avoid emotional entaglement with a potential spouse.

Apparently since the bible says there is a kiss of peace, that means that one can loo

k at a girl without lust.

The first time they kissed was on their wedding day however.

Ben is slogging his way through much of ephesians, thesolonians and psalms. Oh goody, I think his point is how to interact and deal with emotions before marriage. Thinking that you are prone to evil thought around girls you so must avoid them is not acceptable. Avoiding feelings and emotion is also not ok. This is actually a good message: men must take responsibility for their thought and actions, and learn to master themselvs and treat wome with repect. (I doubt this will be the takeway message for most listeners)

[meda]

Ben rambles horribly, I think he has a but of a problem with lustfull thoughts, he harps on this point a bit.

You can have emotional attachment, but not frivolous, romantic , fantasy feelings. No daydreaming about being alone together ot being a couple, thats bad

[meda]

Many times when courtship fails, it is because men start thinking about a particular girl as his wife too soon, and day dreaming about it. Apparently Ben made this mistake before. (I think young Ben is a bit of a romantic, maybe it's because he is a musician)

How did parents prepare Ben and Audri?

Ben: I don't know what the answer is because he keeps rambling. I guess Geoff threw cold water on his courtship with Audri in the sense that he told Ben to beseech the Lord on his knees to reveal the state of Audri's soul. Good grief. He waanted ben to make the right decision for the right reasons.

Ok, now David: when he talked to Audri, he wanted to investigate her for Ben, because Ben is going ackomplish great things and needed an excellent wife.

David on enotional attachment: it is coveting something that is not yours, which is forbidden. If girl has not said yes she will marry you, then you have no claim over her.

[meda]

Many times when courtship fails, it is because men start thinking about a particular girl as his wife too soon, and day dreaming about it. Apparently Ben made this mistake before. (I think young Ben is a bit of a romantic, maybe it's because he is a musician)

How did parents prepare Ben and Audri?

Ben: I don't know what the answer is because he keeps rambling. I guess Geoff threw cold water on his courtship with Audri in the sense that he told Ben to beseech the Lord on his knees to reveal the state of Audri's soul. Good grief. He waanted ben to make the right decision for the right reasons.

Ok, now David: when he talked to Audri, he wanted to investigate her for Ben, because Ben is going accomplish great things and needed an excellent wife.

David on enotional attachment: it is coveting something that is not yours, which is forbidden. If girl has not said yes she will marry you, then you have no claim over her.

[MamaJunebug]

Meda, you should get a medal or be even made a knight! How you cannlidten to this without imploding? I can't imagine it.

These loons set standards for mortals that I really cant begin to call even remotely sensible.

!

[meda]

Final point: making a final decision. I guess cold feet ae biblical.

Do these things when making a final decision.

1. fall on your face in prayer, proverbs 3, verse 23

2. don't justdetermine if a woman will be a good helper for you, you must determine if you are right for her and can lay down your life for her. delight in the lorad, and he will give you the desires you should have. Ben had thought to much about what she could be for him, not what he could do for her. (thats nice actually)

[meda]

MJB, it's so foreign to me, it's like listening to a Nat Geo special on New Guinea tribesmen

[meda]

Q: when is it time to propose, how do you know.

A: the holy spirit made it evident, there were no more questions to ask (how the hell do you run out of questions) For David and Nadia, it was 2 monthe, for Ben and Audri 4 months.

Audri, I knew that it ws time for US (not Ben) to make a decision. Talked to her parents every day for hours about this (lucky parents) "of all the people the lord brought into my life, Ben wa the only man I could follow and hitch my life to" (dear girl, you are 20, how many have there ben)

parents told her to write a list of questions to see if Ben is aman who will be favored by the lord (Wow, it must be nice to think your spouce has been blessed by an al powerful god. No high expectations to live up there or anythng

[Marian the Librarian]

"Geoff told Audri that it would be difficult to marry into the Botkins because they are a persecuted family. Many people hate what they preach (true that) and Ben and the girls have been persecuted."

Golly gee whillikers. And I bet for the life of him Geoff just couldn't focus on why this might be.

[meda]

Pic of Ben walking by himself. Joke was that Ben was walking alone because Dr. Vernier was still vetting him and had not granted him permission to propose.

[meda]

I wish I could save the powerpont pics, they are special. Ben looking thoughtful and industrious and kingdom work-ish

next topic: how do parents help their children, what questions shoul dfathers ask?

A: purpose of fathers vetting is to fulfull the duty of protection to the daughter and fulfill the multigenerational faithfulness mandate of faithful application of family doctrine. WE ARE CHRISTIANS!! he thunders, and we must prevent mixed marriages with unholy seed. Those who follow other gods cannot raise covenant families.

Principles for why men must evaluate suitors:

Couples must be equally yoked.Also, respect the suitors time (this is why Geoff asks his daughters, so he does not waste a young mans time (I guess the girls reject men on a regular basis, There have been "many young suitors")

Also, Honor the principle that wive must joyfully submit to and follow their husband

[meda]

What questions are appropriate for suitors:

1. anything your daughter wants to ask

2. anything you want to ask

Fathers should have a family legacy so they know what questions to ask. For what life missions have you prepared your daughter?

[meda]

And we are done. They are just so serious and more important that the rest of us, their marriages are for a higher purpose than the rest of the world. I need a stiff drink now.

[Marian the Librarian]

And we are done. They are just so serious and more important that the rest of us, their marriages are for a higher purpose than the rest of the world. I need a stiff drink now.

This. It's the arch, "We breathe the rarefied air of Botkin superiority" attitude that I find the most off-putting.

You deserve that drink, meda, along with all our thanks!

[SamuraiKatz]

Also, respect the suitors time (this is why Geoff asks his daughters, so he does not waste a young mans time (I guess the girls reject men on a regular basis, There have been "many young suitors")

So this is why Anna Sophia and Elizabeth aren't married? Really?

Idle speculation bus: Is it possible that at least one of them is waiting for one of the two older Doug Phillips sons?