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I know a family with three brothers, all (in retrospect) somewhere on what we now call the autism spectrum.

None married, incredibly smart, always enjoyed (I assume) social events, they just were totally not adept at socializing and each pursued a hobby obsessively. The oldest (and least socially adept) managed to get through a doctoral program in a highly technical field. The other two manage employment. I discussed this with a co-worker with an autistic son and she agreed that an ad hoc autism spectrum diagnosis didn't seem out of line. And it wouldn't surprise me if the dad is somewhere on the spectrum as well. They all live very near each other.

I guess what I'm sayin' is that perhaps the Arnt "kids" could have some similar issue and staying at home just suits them better than attempting to go out in the world where they are not as comfortable. The not leaving home is especially weird because there are eleventy of them. I haven't really investigated the Arndts or watched them on YouTube, but does this seem to fit?

I haven't done much Arndt investigation either, but your theory is as sound than anything else I've heard.

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I assume this is an unacreditied university??

Well you get a degree in "life" from the "school of hard knocks"...

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I know a family with three brothers, all (in retrospect) somewhere on what we now call the autism spectrum.

None married, incredibly smart, always enjoyed (I assume) social events, they just were totally not adept at socializing and each pursued a hobby obsessively. The oldest (and least socially adept) managed to get through a doctoral program in a highly technical field. The other two manage employment. I discussed this with a co-worker with an autistic son and she agreed that an ad hoc autism spectrum diagnosis didn't seem out of line. And it wouldn't surprise me if the dad is somewhere on the spectrum as well. They all live very near each other.

I guess what I'm sayin' is that perhaps the Arnt "kids" could have some similar issue and staying at home just suits them better than attempting to go out in the world where they are not as comfortable. The not leaving home is especially weird because there are eleventy of them. I haven't really investigated the Arndts or watched them on YouTube, but does this seem to fit?

It's not out of the question. I remember seeing a show on TLC a couple of years ago about a largish Mormon family (six kids, I think) and all of them were on the autism spectrum, from fairly high functioning to low functioning and non-verbal. This would suggest that there is a genetic basis for autism. The problem with the Ardts is that Mom and Dad aren't going to be around forever, and then what will happen? I guess they could all still live together and pool their resources. :think:

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I'm not sure it's statistically possible to have 14 out of 14 offspring with autism, even if we were to assume a strong genetic connection.

Daddy is first and foremost a narcissist who sees all of his kids as extensions of himself. He and his wife have somehow managed to convince 11 adults -all but one male - that the world is such a scary place they must limit their contact with the outside world as much as possible and rely almost entirely on each other for companionship and emotional support. And yet they manage this without coming across as total recluses. They have the big (although getting smaller) softball events, host large parties some holidays during the year, and seem to be fairly successful selling their photography skills to non-fundie brides-to-be.

Stockholm syndrome is real, and who better to perpetuate brainwashing but parents who have complete access to their kids since birth? I have no idea what techniques they used as Daddy has always kept the actual inner workings of the household under wraps (we are only allowed to see harmony and happiness), but they managed to pull it off somehow.

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Yeah, this was my first thought. They really need to bring in someone from outside the family for that.

I really hope the Arndts aren't dieting. Their blog posts about dining at such exotic eateries as Red Lobster are the most interesting thing about them.

Yes, they are dieting but in the sense that all sportsman diet. It is related to being a good weight for softball. They are actually very sensible about it if the podcast is to be believed. Lots of protein, lots of vege, every 7th day a junk day so the metabolic rate doesn't slow, etc.

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I'm not sure it's statistically possible to have 14 out of 14 offspring with autism, even if we were to assume a strong genetic connection.

I agree. I have worked with people with ASD for close to 20 years now and have only encountered one family where all of the kids were on the spectrum (four in total). While it's certainly possible that one or some of the kids may be autistic, I think the odds of them all being so are little to none. I think major dysfunctional family dynamics and cult-like tactics are more to blame. And when I say major, I'm talking headline-making, documentaries and TV movies being made about them major. That family is FUBAR.

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I feel like this family is straight out if the The X-Files. I don't think they are frightened of the world like the Duggars or the Maxwells. I truly believe that they don't care that the world exists. There is more than control here, it's like some type if spell has been cast on the kids and I don't even believe in spells. They all truly seem happy to be together all the time without any friends. I don't think any of the sons even want to leave Mom and the penguins behind.

I was thinking of the X-files episode "Home" only without the inbred mutants. And Mama Arndt still has limbs and isn't kept under her bed on a cart.

But autism makes sense too.

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For anyone looking for a psychological theory on the Arndts, I would advise them them to look into Enmeshment.

http://www.familybusinesswiki.org/Enmeshed+family

Enmeshment is defined as ...

An extreme form of proximity and intensity in family interactions...In a highly enmeshed, overinvolved family, changes within one family member or in the relationship between two family members reverberate throughout the system.

... On an individual level, interpersonal differentiation in an enmeshed system is poor...in enmeshed families the individual gets lost in the system. The boundaries that define individual autonomy are so weak that functioning in individually differentiated ways is radically handicapped ."

... the family members are overly dependent on each other. This is reflected in behaviors such as discussing and sharing with family members almost all aspects of one's life, and seeking advice from family members on most issues -- rather than also having friends and confidants outside of the family.

... Pursuing career paths outside of the family business may be discouraged in a highly enmeshed family."

...the parents are likely to make all of the important decisions and to indirectly discourage the independence and development of their children. The adult children are often reluctant to disobey their parents for fear of losing financial support from the business.

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For anyone looking for a psychological theory on the Arndts, I would advise them them to look into Enmeshment.

http://www.familybusinesswiki.org/Enmeshed+family

Enmeshment is defined as ...

An extreme form of proximity and intensity in family interactions...In a highly enmeshed, overinvolved family, changes within one family member or in the relationship between two family members reverberate throughout the system.

... On an individual level, interpersonal differentiation in an enmeshed system is poor...in enmeshed families the individual gets lost in the system. The boundaries that define individual autonomy are so weak that functioning in individually differentiated ways is radically handicapped ."

... the family members are overly dependent on each other. This is reflected in behaviors such as discussing and sharing with family members almost all aspects of one's life, and seeking advice from family members on most issues -- rather than also having friends and confidants outside of the family.

... Pursuing career paths outside of the family business may be discouraged in a highly enmeshed family."

...the parents are likely to make all of the important decisions and to indirectly discourage the independence and development of their children. The adult children are often reluctant to disobey their parents for fear of losing financial support from the business.

This sounds spot on!

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While the Arndts are definitely highly enmeshed, I see Enmeshment in a lot of the families we snark on here. Honestly, I think it would be hard for a large, isolated family to NOT become enmeshed to some degree.

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This is the weirdest family ever. I could understand if they were isolated like the Maxwells, but they aren't. The older sons have jobs and travel. WTF did these parents do to their children?

I always wondered the same thing!!

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I assume this is an unacreditied university??

It's accredited by the Most High. That is all that counts.

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Look at the bright side - what worldly university has Homecoming all day, every day? And only one true contender to Homecoming Queen?

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For anyone looking for a psychological theory on the Arndts, I would advise them them to look into Enmeshment.

Thanks for your post! Enmeshment would be a signature feature of many of these mega-large fundie families where the kids just don't move on.

Also (my spidey senses are tingling a little here) I recall that in some fundie families the kids are taught to not hold ANYTHING in their mental/emotional life back from their parents. For instance, in this telling of the Maranatha courship story,

As time went by Maranatha found her “attraction†to Matthew “increasingly distracting.†She told her father about her crush as she had been taught to do.

I've see this in several other instances: "I told my parents as I'd been taught to do." This teaches kids that they can have no personal boundaries -- no private emotional or mental life. It seems like that could lead to enmeshment as well.

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I just had to read what Daddy had to say, yep,, this family takes the cake ,,, my God what joy it must be to gather in the master bedroom and do the laying on of hands

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I was thinking of the X-files episode "Home" only without the inbred mutants. And Mama Arndt still has limbs and isn't kept under her bed on a cart.

But autism makes sense too.

OMG, was that the creepiest episode ever of all time? I find Criminal Minds very disturbing, but that episode, "home"? Still shuddering.

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Thanks for your post! Enmeshment would be a signature feature of many of these mega-large fundie families where the kids just don't move on.

Also (my spidey senses are tingling a little here) I recall that in some fundie families the kids are taught to not hold ANYTHING in their mental/emotional life back from their parents. For instance, in this telling of the Maranatha courship story,

I've see this in several other instances: "I told my parents as I'd been taught to do." This teaches kids that they can have no personal boundaries -- no private emotional or mental life. It seems like that could lead to enmeshment as well.

Cult methods and enmeshment. Dad takes kids out one at a time to "talk about things" for hours at a time. They have group discussions about their thoughts and work themselves up (talk in tongues) for hours before and after.

And that dad's cornners or whatever they are called (diary? ) and his talks are like some kind of verbal sedative.

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How are thy financially surviving? I remember on the tv special they were on it was discussed that the Dad and some of the sons were court reporters but you don't hear about that anymore. Did they stop? All I hear about is the photographer one. It has to take quite a bit of money to feed all those men and waste money on Filming Daddy's neverending movie.

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While it's certainly possible that one or some of the kids may be autistic, I think the odds of them all being so are little to none. I think major dysfunctional family dynamics and cult-like tactics are more to blame. And when I say major, I'm talking headline-making, documentaries and TV movies being made about them major. That family is FUBAR.

I don't know too much about them (but now that I'm reading a bit, the WTF value is high!).

This makes me wonder though, completely apart from the Arndts... in a regular worldly family if one or more kids have autism, the other kids still get out and interact with other "regular" kids. But if you were raised in a family with a lot of autistic kids, with family activities and whatnot basically geared to them (because "lowest common denominator" as far as accessibility, etc) and ALSO incredibly isolated so your family were the only kids you hang out with, I can see maybe you'd get socialized a bit "differently" from the normal "going to school" situation.

Completely aside from autism, there's a sort of "weirdness" or "way younger seeming than normal, creepily naive" mannerism around some of the very isolated homeschooled kids who basically only ever get to socialize with their own younger siblings 24/7 and end up quitting their own homeschooling to teach the younger ones. Those families too, all the activities and "field trips" and whatever else end up pitched to preschool or maybe young elementary level (because again, "lowest common denominator") and so the kids just end up very... stunted, in some ways.

Of course often on top of that the parents are so thrilled about this, because look, my kids aren't worldly... it's just creepy.

Meanwhile... Fam Team University? I wonder what would happen if the One Ton Ramp came by as guest lecturers, just imagine the fun!

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I don't know too much about them (but now that I'm reading a bit, the WTF value is high!).

This makes me wonder though, completely apart from the Arndts... in a regular worldly family if one or more kids have autism, the other kids still get out and interact with other "regular" kids. But if you were raised in a family with a lot of autistic kids, with family activities and whatnot basically geared to them (because "lowest common denominator" as far as accessibility, etc) and ALSO incredibly isolated so your family were the only kids you hang out with, I can see maybe you'd get socialized a bit "differently" from the normal "going to school" situation.

Completely aside from autism, there's a sort of "weirdness" or "way younger seeming than normal, creepily naive" mannerism around some of the very isolated homeschooled kids who basically only ever get to socialize with their own younger siblings 24/7 and end up quitting their own homeschooling to teach the younger ones. Those families too, all the activities and "field trips" and whatever else end up pitched to preschool or maybe young elementary level (because again, "lowest common denominator") and so the kids just end up very... stunted, in some ways.

Of course often on top of that the parents are so thrilled about this, because look, my kids aren't worldly... it's just creepy.

Meanwhile... Fam Team University? I wonder what would happen if the One Ton Ramp came by as guest lecturers, just imagine the fun!

Or the potential courtship opportunities. 4 Males over 30! There is hope for poor Sarah yet!

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I don't know too much about them (but now that I'm reading a bit, the WTF value is high!).

This makes me wonder though, completely apart from the Arndts... in a regular worldly family if one or more kids have autism, the other kids still get out and interact with other "regular" kids. But if you were raised in a family with a lot of autistic kids, with family activities and whatnot basically geared to them (because "lowest common denominator" as far as accessibility, etc) and ALSO incredibly isolated so your family were the only kids you hang out with, I can see maybe you'd get socialized a bit "differently" from the normal "going to school" situation.

Completely aside from autism, there's a sort of "weirdness" or "way younger seeming than normal, creepily naive" mannerism around some of the very isolated homeschooled kids who basically only ever get to socialize with their own younger siblings 24/7 and end up quitting their own homeschooling to teach the younger ones. Those families too, all the activities and "field trips" and whatever else end up pitched to preschool or maybe young elementary level (because again, "lowest common denominator") and so the kids just end up very... stunted, in some ways.

Of course often on top of that the parents are so thrilled about this, because look, my kids aren't worldly... it's just creepy.

Meanwhile... Fam Team University? I wonder what would happen if the One Ton Ramp came by as guest lecturers, just imagine the fun!

Of course they are stunted and don't reach "adult" levels in some things. Humans, for the entire history of the species, have been pack animals. We are not meant to live in single family isolated groups. We are meant, at the very least, to live in multi-family tribal groups.

It's like wild animals that are bred in captivity that can never be released into the wild. Why? Because their formative environment was fundamentally incorrect, and even with the best efforts of their caretakers, they will simply never develop the skills necessary to function outside of their cage. That's who these people are: humans born and raised in captivity. They can no longer function outside their cage. They can never enter the "real world".

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How are thy financially surviving? I remember on the tv special they were on it was discussed that the Dad and some of the sons were court reporters but you don't hear about that anymore. Did they stop? All I hear about is the photographer one. It has to take quite a bit of money to feed all those men and waste money on Filming Daddy's neverending movie.

Rumor has it that Mama Short-White-Shorts comes from $$$.

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Yep, this is the one and only family I think are worse than the Maxwells. There is SOMETHING going on in that house that keeps a bunch of fully grown men who actually go out into the world come back home to the bunk beds every night. And it ain't Jesus. Fucking creepy.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
I live not far from them, and they actually SEEM pretty normal on the outside. And the ones I've seen actually do seem happy, too. One of these years I'm going to bite the bullet and go to one of their events just so I can see the whole family in action.
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Look at the bright side - what worldly university has Homecoming all day, every day? And only one true contender to Homecoming Queen?

Love this!!

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How are thy financially surviving? I remember on the tv special they were on it was discussed that the Dad and some of the sons were court reporters but you don't hear about that anymore. Did they stop? All I hear about is the photographer one. It has to take quite a bit of money to feed all those men and waste money on Filming Daddy's neverending movie.

I think they still do court reporting. Why would they give something like that up. I'm not sure the photograpyhy is that lucrtive.

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