Would you consider this controlling or okay?

[2xx1xy1JD]

There's a guest post at Sheila's blog (love, honor, vacuum) today, and it's about what a wife can/should do to stop her husband from watching shows like Game of Thrones:

tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2015/02/husband-watches-nudity-on-tv/#comments

I'm not a fan of gratuitous sex and violence on TV.

OTOH, some of this stuff struck me as being controlling. To my horror, there was even a little voice in the back of my head asking, "is this the sort of thing that Ken was complaining about, when he talks about conflict resolution and being manipulated by feelings or lack of sex?" I don't usually agree with Ken about anything ever, so I thought I'd ask folks here for their opinions and reality check.

[Firiel]

I think maybe it depends on how the woman is truly feeling so it could vary depending on the situation. If a woman really does not feel comfortable sleeping next to her husband after he watches a show with gratuitous sex, then she shouldn't, even if it's silly. Maybe that means she should go get some therapy to uncover her issues with sex on TV or maybe she has a legit reason (I can see someone who has been sexually assaulted reasonably being upset at certain graphic violence to the point where it hurts them that their SO seems to accept it as normal entertainment). Regardless of the legitimacy of the feelings, you shouldn't do something you are uncomfortable with. But if the emotions aren't there and you are just kind of doing it on principle, I think it's manipulative to refuse to share a bed as a "punishment" for doing something you don't agree with.

If that makes sense. :?

[EmiGirl]

I don't think a wife should "punish" her husband by kicking him out of the bed. But I also don't think that it's right to be expected to put out when she's so disgusted by his behavior. I know that if my husband came to me after watching a show or reading something that turned him on I would wonder if it was really ME he wanted or just to get off. Then I couldn't find it within me to actually want and enjoy the act.

[Georgiana]

I personally do not believe it is healthy to use ANYTHING besides words to resolve conflict in relationships. Using other things as "bargaining chips", whether it be sexual relations, attendance at a function, time/contact with children, potential social embarrassment, etc. is manipulation, IMO.

Which doesn't mean that you are never justified in refusing those things in a conflict. A conflict may arise or a situation may occur where you feel uncomfortable doing any or all of those things. That is fine.

The difference is that I don't believe it is OK to use them as blackmail to get your way. You should never have to resort to blackmail or threats to resolve your conflicts. If you aren't communicating well enough to come to a resolution, then bring someone else in to help mediate the situation.

[EmiGirl]

I personally do not believe it is healthy to use ANYTHING besides words to resolve conflict in relationships. Using other things as "bargaining chips", whether it be sexual relations, attendance at a function, time/contact with children, potential social embarrassment, etc. is manipulation, IMO.

Which doesn't mean that you are never justified in refusing those things in a conflict. A conflict may arise or a situation may occur where you feel uncomfortable doing any or all of those things. That is fine.

The difference is that I don't believe it is OK to use them as blackmail to get your way. You should never have to resort to blackmail or threats to resolve your conflicts. If you aren't communicating well enough to come to a resolution, then bring someone else in to help mediate the situation.

This.

[Maggie Mae]

I don't understand any of that article, TBH.

If you don't like your husband's shows, don't watch it with him. If you think that he should only see you naked, maybe you should examine why that is? Are you comparing your body with another woman's body, who is a movie star? Are you ashamed that the man who made a commitment to you is attracted to other women? Newsflash: Everyone is attracted to other attractive people. But he made a commitment to you. You know what's not sexy? Being ashamed, embarrassed, and shy. If you think your body isn't sexy, and you want it to be sexier, work to improve it.

Or cut the cord and save some money and blindfold your husband when you leave the house. Whatever. (Note: I'm all for cutting the cord and not subscribing to TV services. We only watch what we want to watch now, and it's so much nicer. One of our shows is Game of Thrones, and I don't think it's pornographic or awful. It's a TV show based on a fantasy series of novels that I've read and enjoy. Do I think that people should watch it with small children? No. But that's why TVs come with remote controls. So you can change the channel if you have moral objections to whatever it is that you don't like.)

I don't think sex should be used as a bargaining chip, unless you are in a specific type of relationship and that type of communication was agreed upon when entering into the relationship.

[RosyDaisy]

All I have to say is my fiancée may see movies with naked women. But, I know whose bed he will be sleeping in and who he wants to have sex with.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Thanks and yes those answers make sense.

There is a difference between being so disgusted or traumatized that your skins crawls and you don't want him touching you vs. deliberately planning to kick someone out of bed until they follow your demands.

I also don't like the idea of assuming the worst about your spouse. You can talk about YOUR feelings but you can't assume that your spouse is doing something just to humiliate you or disrespect women.

[polecat]

I don't think a wife should "punish" her husband by kicking him out of the bed. But I also don't think that it's right to be expected to put out when she's so disgusted by his behavior. I know that if my husband came to me after watching a show or reading something that turned him on I would wonder if it was really ME he wanted or just to get off. Then I couldn't find it within me to actually want and enjoy the act.

Ugh, this is something I struggle with, too. I think on my part (just speaking for me), it's more a matter of general insecurity with my looks than anything else. But if my husband were watching something particularly titillating and then started kissing me or whatever, I'd feel more like a masturbatory device than his partner. And it would absolutely turn me off.

Not that he really watches anything with gratuitous sex. No, he likes violence. Ugh, he loves war movies and leo movies and so many violent shows, and I can't deal with them. He also likes first person shooter games, and I can't handle that, either. So if I'm in the room with him, I either get up and go somewhere else or I put my headphones in to tune out the noise and do my own thing. There's definitely no punishing going on, though. I don't care what he watches. I just don't want to watch it.

[feministxtian]

I don't give a damn what he watches. I know who he's sleeping with every night. He might want to watch boobies, that's fine, I like to watch men's butts (why do you think I'm a football fan...22 guys in tight pants!)

[ADoyle90815]

I'm also one who doesn't give a damn about what my fiancee watches, but there are times when he wants to watch WW2 documentaries and when I'm not in the mood to watch them, I just get on the computer and either get online or play Solitare for a while.

[whoviana]

Usually these conversations happen while people are still dating, but they learn more about each other while living together. Didn't she know that his husband was into stuff like this? Too late.

I am too, appalled by pornography, violence, bloodshed, war movies etc. and I wouldn't have chosen a partner who loves watching people knifing and swording down each other. What can I say? Too late. And yes, it is downright controlling. The guy has a taste for that stuff. Deal with it. (ETA that it is NOT an invitation into a debate about the GOT).

[whoviana]

I don't give a damn what he watches. I know who he's sleeping with every night. He might want to watch boobies, that's fine, I like to watch men's butts (why do you think I'm a football fan...22 guys in tight pants!)

This made me laugh out loud. I don't really care about men's butts but I'm extremely attracted to blonde men with caveman-like facial bone structures. When Fiance notices one he brings it to my attention laughingly, like, hey that guy looks like the ones that you like. He thinks that they look like blonde monkeys and cannot take me seriously, so he laughs it off.

[Four is Enough]

Mr. Four and I would talk about it.. and work it out, or view things in separate rooms.

[Idolatry]

Game of Thrones also has a lot of gay sex/nudity. So there's that. Wouldn't exactly put that in a fundie man's wheelhouse.

[nelliebelle1197]

All I have to say is my fiancée may see movies with naked women. But, I know whose bed he will be sleeping in and who he wants to have sex with.

Are you seriously telling me you are sleeping with a MAN. TO WHOM YOU ARE NOT MARRIED? Harlot.

[Georgiana]

Game of Thrones also has a lot of gay sex/nudity. So there's that. Wouldn't exactly put that in a fundie man's wheelhouse.

"The dragons are still just on their way! They keep promising dragons, but all I get are more floppy wieners in my face!"

-Butters Stotch

[feministxtian]

This made me laugh out loud. I don't really care about men's butts but I'm extremely attracted to blonde men with caveman-like facial bone structures. When Fiance notices one he brings it to my attention laughingly, like, hey that guy looks like the ones that you like. He thinks that they look like blonde monkeys and cannot take me seriously, so he laughs it off.

I also may or may not be known to freeze the scene with Mel Gibson's naked ass in Lethal Weapon 1 even when the hub is around.

I'm old...not dead...

[Palimpsest]

There are two different issues here:

1. Is a spouse/significant other watching some kind of TV that you don't like (because of sex/violence) inherently wrong.

2. How to resolve conflict within a marriage/relationship.

In my household Mr. P. watches some things on TV that I don't like because I find them too violent. One of those shows is Game of Thrones, BTW. Others are American football and Ice Hockey! I usually leave the room and do something else. The kind of sexy stuff that is on TV bothers neither of us. Sometimes we find it funny and sometimes we might even enjoy watching it together. :mrgreen: Now if he were into hard porn, snuff movies or kiddie porn we'd have a huge problem but he is obviously not. (If he were we'd talk it out, get him therapy, and hopefully come to an agreement in time.)

Resolving conflicts within a marriage should be talked out or resolved with the help of a third party - preferably using a qualified counselor. Probably when you are having a serious disagreement and are angry with your partner then loving sex is not something you want to share. Being forced into grudgingly having sex is obviously out. Nor will having sex, even riotous and enjoyable sex, resolve the basic conflict.

The problem these unfortunate women face is that they are brainwashed into submission. They can't talk it out. It's pray and submit. Pray and submit better. Or put up and shut up because the Headship knows best. So they have to resort to manipulative and very passive aggressive behaviors.

One of the best examples of this is preached by Teri Maxwell. Her brilliant example: You must never, ever, question your Headship's decisions because it undermines his Authority. If he takes a wrong turn while driving then you must just sit there quietly until he realizes his mistake. If he asks for your help you can then look at a map and tell him the right route but he may decide not to take it. If I tried that with Mr. P. he'd be justifiably furious with me for wasting time and gas.

Submission is pernicious and there are a lot of angry Fundie women out there.

[salex]

OH, well..... the idea that a guy would say every time a naked (or barely clad or just attractive) woman came on a screen he averted his eyes is weird to me. Either don't watch shows like that or acknowledge you watch shows like that. I have never found Game of Thrones or The Tudors problematic, and we just finished Spartacus (we being mostly hubby, because I grew weary of blood and orgies, orgies and blood) but if he wants to watch it (or whatever) I don't feel that bothered by it. We talked about Spartacus a bit, because while I liked some episodes, I didn't find it compelling enough to watch. We did agree that the tv porny version was probably actually nicer than the real life version would have been... and that the overall smell of the places and the people would be bad. We also suspected a lot of people would have been dripping with an assortment of STDs.... (ugh, think of the germs)

As far as him getting turned on and coming to find me... OK-- Whatever.

Every single day, as I get older, beautiful young women come of age. If I'm going to be worried about that, I might as well just surrender now.

And, since we don't toss one another out of bed for anything other than sickness, we don't keep score and we both view one another as adults who, while happily joined are still separate people who don't have to like all the same things, mostly this makes me shrug.

[polecat]

I also may or may not be known to freeze the scene with Mel Gibson's naked ass in Lethal Weapon 1 even when the hub is around.

I'm old...not dead...

I'm neither old nor dead, but naked men just don't do it for me unless it's a naked man I know and already want (well, and if I wasn't married -- since I'm married, another naked man would just be uncomfortable). Movie stars definitely don't do it for me. Even the attractive ones.

Although I may or may not have a little bit of a crush on Josh Gates ...

[Howl]

The problem these unfortunate women face is that they are brainwashed into submission. They can't talk it out. It's pray and submit. Pray and submit better. Or put up and shut up because the Headship knows best. So they have to resort to manipulative and very passive aggressive behaviors...

...Submission is pernicious and there are a lot of angry Fundie women out there.

For some reason, Fifty Shades of Pray comes to mind in this instance.

[Palimpsest]

For some reason, Fifty Shades of Pray comes to mind in this instance.

No kidding!

[DGayle]

I think this is stuff they should have talked about before marriage. If she doesn't want to sleep next to him because she's upset, she shouldn't have to, but she needs to examine why she's so disgusted that she can't be near him. It is punitive in a way, because it turns being near her into a reward for giving up a show he likes.

[browngrl]

I very much enjoy the Game of Thrones - gratuitous violence and sex and all. If my husband felt the need to censor what I could or could not watch I would not be pleased (for the record he would NEVER do this). I would certainly be willing to watch in another room or watch when he was not around but I would not be willing to stop watching. I find this to be very controlling. It would not matter to me if he told this with me in a calm and polite tone. It would not matter if he used reasonable 'consequences' or threats. I simply do not want to be censored in this way. Is it more or less palatable if the husband tells the wife what to watch?