Has anyone ever attempted to actually...do something?

[Nishi621]

Jill knows nothing else. THAT is the problem, the limited, scrubbed list of choices that she was offered. Give it 10 years, when she is 33 and has 8 kids....that's when the discontent might surface.

See, that is where I disagree. They have been exposed to a lot of the outside world. They have travelled, seen their brother move to DC, been around all the TLC folks and Jill has married a man who lived a "regular" life. It's not like they have never left Arkansas, etc

[SassyPants]

See, that is where I disagree. They have been exposed to a lot of the outside world. They have travelled, seen their brother move to DC, been around all the TLC folks and Jill has married a man who lived a "regular" life. It's not like they have never left Arkansas, etc

Yet her choices have not changed...not because of her but because of her parents, the cult and brainwashing.

I think it's really strange that out of 8 adult children who have been around the world and exposed to TV cameras and the media, not 1 of the 8 has questioned what they have been taught (maybe Josiah has????)... IMO, it's because they have been heavily [sadly] brainwashed.

[tabitha2]

I think after awhile the brainwashing excuse becomes pretty thin... With Joy in October it will be 9 kids. All the experiences those kids have been exposed to in the last 10 years would logically have been undermining this brainwashing and fomenting little rebellions in a opinionated kid like Jessa or Jinger if it was solely that as plenty of these families have kids going mainstream. No, it's either material greed, laziness, real devotion to the fundamentalist cause, attention whoring inherited from mom and dad, familial affection or some combination thereof keeping them in stasis. I agree will others- if there is any defection going to happen it will be maybe from Jason(12) on down.

[SassyPants]

I think after awhile the brainwashing excuse becomes pretty thin... With Joy in October it will be 9 kids. All the experiences those kids have been exposed to in the last 10 years would logically have been undermining this brainwashing and fomenting little rebellions in a opinionated kid like Jessa or Jinger if it was solely that as plenty of these families have kids going mainstream. No, it's either material greed, laziness, real devotion to the fundamentalist cause, attention whoring inherited from mom and dad, familial affection or some combination thereof keeping them in stasis. I agree will others- if there is any defection going to happen it will be maybe from Jason(12) on down.

For those old enough to have really known and remembered life pre-TLC, it could be they realize that they have an easy gig right now. I think they are all lazy as they have learned from the best in that department.

I think Jill and Anna really believe the Gothard tripe- the rest of the older ones, I have serious doubts.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

My opinion on this probably isn't too popular, but I'll say it anyway:

I doubt that any of those kids are interested in leaving and not just because they were trained to think so. I think that they do have legitimate bonds with one another (or at least a few of their family members). I also think that most, if not all, of these kids honestly believe what they have been taught regarding their faith. They may have some doubts or questions, but I don't think any of them have had thoughts that have risen to the level of wanting to run.

Take Jana for instance. Everyone loves to say that she is on the verge of a breakdown or she looks ready to run out the door. I can understand why she could feel that way - she did spend the majority of her life raising her siblings. However, I don't think she is ready to breakdown or run away. I look at her and see a person who is simply uncomfortable around the cameras, a private person who wants to limit what public exposure she gets. I think she might be frustrated that she is still living with her parents, but that might be more due to the fact that she hasn't found someone she wants to marry - because marriage = adulthood in their culture.

I think a lot of the people here assume a lot about these kids - that Jill absolutely despises higher education, that Jessa is totally going Fundie-Lite, that Jana is going to breakdown, etc. I can't say that I blame people for that either; a lot of you have watched these kids grow up on screen. You want the absolute best that life has to offer for them and want to see them succeed. I think that's normal, but I also think that the simplest answer is usually the correct one - meaning, these kids are believers and none of them have any intention of leaving anytime soon.

If any of them do wind up leaving, it will be one of the younger kids who can't remember or never experience life before TLC - and even then, they'd only leave once the show is over and their parents start limiting their exposure to the outside world. They've gotten to experience things at a younger age than the older kids did. I doubt they'd be happy if their world started to narrow after that.

I agree with you and want to add that there's actually little reason for them to escape. Even thought their emotional needs are rarely completely fulfilled by their parents, they still love their family and have strong bonds within the family unit. Not to mention, they have great opportunities given to them by TLC, including a large amount of free travel.

Even if they don't share their parents' views, they wont need to escape. WE feel they should have the desire to escape because WE would want to if we had our backgrounds and were forced to live the Duggar lifestyle. But the Duggars have a completely different past, present, and future than we do. And, that shapes how they respond to their lifestyle.

[MoonFace]

I used to think and hope tlc cameramen would intervene somehow and save these kids by taking them aside and talking privately to them about their options in life - but no - won't happen - you'd think tlc would see how a private one on one interview with these kids - talking to them about what options they would have would be a ratings hit - I'm so disappointed no one on the inside has stepped up

Couldn't happen. I don't think the kids would be allowed to be alone with an outsider. I bet they are more controlled than a Prisoner of War being interviewed by the Red Cross or something like that.

[shedemei]

has anyone watched that Breaking Amish show? Don't a lot of those kids end up going back to their families?

Also, when the Amish kids have Rumspringa where they are allowed to leave and see and experience the outside world, don't the majority of them return to the life and their families according to statistics?

Running away from fundie life might very well mean being shunned by your entire family and I bet these kids wouldn't want to lose their siblings..

That show is almost completely fabricated.

http://jezebel.com/5949245/arrests-divo ... g-but-lies

Rumspringa is also not what it's usually portrayed as being. The kids don't go wild, except for a small minority. Not all Amish sects even practice it. It's mostly a period of introspection and making sure they want to be baptized, with a period time where they won't be kicked out for bending the rules.

Reality show is mostly bullshit. We know nothing about these people's real lives.

Example: I personally met one of the people on Escaping Alaska and am a friend-of-a-friend of one of their siblings. Did they grow up in a remote village? Yes. Had this person never been out of Alaska before the show, as it was claimed for all four stars? No, and in fact three of the four had lives in the lower 48. Were they ostracized by their families for betraying them by leaving? No. Total bullshit. Was the show edited to make things appear the way the producers wanted? Yup.

Seriously, one of the things that bugs me about FJ is this belief that we know these people of reality shows and know what their lives are like. WE DO NOT.

Approaching the Duggar kids to save then from their family? Really? That's not over the line? People here really believe that they could totally rescue someone from a cult? That's about feeling good about yourself being a hero, not about real concern for the kids for the vast majority of people on FJ.

[VelociRapture]

Seriously, one of the things that bugs me about FJ is this belief that we know these people of reality shows and know what their lives are like. WE DO NOT.

Approaching the Duggar kids to save then from their family? Really? That's not over the line? People here really believe that they could totally rescue someone from a cult? That's about feeling good about yourself being a hero, not about real concern for the kids for the vast majority of people on FJ.

I honestly do think that pretty much everyone on here has only the best intentions when it comes to helping these kids. However, we can only know what is shown on TV and, like you said, we are given a very specific picture to base our thoughts off of. The networks that air these shows (such as TLC) are getting very good at blending reality and fiction - so it doesn't surprise me that people are often at odds over whether the kids are really happy or not. It's tough to tell what is real and what isn't.

That said, if one of the kids were to randomly come up to me and beg for help getting out - I would do it. I'm not going to turn away a blatant plea for help from someone. . . but I doubt that would happen. And I do agree that attempting to do something to save them without having a firm and blatant indication that they want help is over the line and, quite honestly, I wouldn't really blame their parents for taking legal action if they felt the situation warranted it.

(Side note: I just want to point out that it isn't just people here that have trouble discerning truth and fiction on reality shows. There were people absolutely shocked that "The Hills" wasn't really reality and there are people who are convinced that "Keeping Up With the Kardashians" is an absolutely accurate window into their lives)

[tabitha2]

All right. Say you could ''rescue'' Jana and Josiah and have them tour colleges, give the worlds best literature, take them to a modern history museum, let them pursue hobbies and generally show them the world of liberated 20 something's for a month or 2. What would you do when and if they said it was very interesting and fun but they would like to go home now, please? Would you accept that or keep on persuading, arguing, cajoling and so on? brow beat 'for their own good'? people want to rescue them but I never hear anyone discuss that part... like they are stray kittens to just be forever grateful for your ''saving'' them.

[ariel9]

I think that a lot of people underestimate the brainwashing excuse. These people have been doing this for 20 plus years. They have people inside the home reinforcing that alternative views are wrong. Then when they leave the house they are only allowed to marry someone that has the approved views of the world. They have no skills to be able to survive outside the cult. Also when life gets hard they will more than likely go back to the way the are raised. After all they say train up a child in the way they should go so when they're out they wont depart from it. They take it literally people. Sure they may not all remain hardcore Gothardites but they have lots of departing to get all the way to mainstream.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

All right. Say you could ''rescue'' Jana and Josiah and have them tour colleges, give the worlds best literature, take them to a modern history museum, let them pursue hobbies and generally show them the world of liberated 20 something's for a month or 2. What would you do when and if they said it was very interesting and fun but they would like to go home now, please? Would you accept that or keep on persuading, arguing, cajoling and so on? brow beat 'for their own good'? people want to rescue them but I never hear anyone discuss that part... like they are stray kittens to just be forever grateful for your ''saving'' them.

I think it's one thing if the "child" in question is over the age of majority (no way in hell will I ever take a child who is under the age of majority), and said "child" asked for me to take them. But I would NEVER assume any of these kids actually wants what we want for them.

[Trynn]

I almost think that a stranger tried to send them letters saying they would help the (adult, even) children get out.

I mean, if I was one of the Duggar kids, I would find something like that extremely creepy. It would scare me.

[socalrules]

Why would anyone attempt to do anything? We may not agree with their beliefs but what right do any of us have to try and "help" them out of a situation we may not agree with? True they may be brainwashed but it is also possible that they may actually believe in everything they were raised to believe. I have lived a pretty normal life and yet I still hold dear the religion and values I was raised with. Does that mean I was brainwashed because I have never doubted those beliefs? Should I have been rescued at 20? If any of them want out and ask for help, then it would be great to help them. My problem is presuming that any of us should try and rescue people that may not want to be rescued to live the type of life we do.

Of all the fundies we follow on this board, the Duggars are pretty much at the bottom of the list of those I fear for. I absolutely do not agree with their beliefs but I don't doubt that they are loved and well taken care of. This is their family that they are obviously proud to be a part of. Plus, why does anyone think that approaching any of them would be successful? If anyone would come up to you talking about trying to get you away from your family, you would likely think they are crazy. We are strangers. There would be no good reason to think our intentions are honorable. Also, if things are so bad there, why try and get the adults out but do nothing to "save" the children? Their lifestyle may be different than ours but none of them are on danger. For a long time I thought that maybe they just didn't know what was out there in the world. The past few seasons of this show has started to make me think that they know more than we think about the world and just don't care, and that is ok too.

[VelociRapture]

Why would anyone attempt to do anything? We may not agree with their beliefs but what right do any of us have to try and "help" them out of a situation we may not agree with? True they may be brainwashed but it is also possible that they may actually believe in everything they were raised to believe. I have lived a pretty normal life and yet I still hold dear the religion and values I was raised with. Does that mean I was brainwashed because I have never doubted those beliefs? Should I have been rescued at 20? If any of them want out and ask for help, then it would be great to help them. My problem is presuming that any of us should try and rescue people that may not want to be rescued to live the type of life we do.

Of all the fundies we follow on this board, the Duggars are pretty much at the bottom of the list of those I fear for. I absolutely do not agree with their beliefs but I don't doubt that they are loved and well taken care of. This is their family that they are obviously proud to be a part of. Plus, why does anyone think that approaching any of them would be successful? If anyone would come up to you talking about trying to get you away from your family, you would likely think they are crazy. We are strangers. There would be no good reason to think our intentions are honorable. Also, if things are so bad there, why try and get the adults out but do nothing to "save" the children? Their lifestyle may be different than ours but none of them are on danger. For a long time I thought that maybe they just didn't know what was out there in the world. The past few seasons of this show has started to make me think that they know more than we think about the world and just don't care, and that is ok too.

Well stated. :clap:

I absolutely agree that I don't worry too much for the Duggar kids. At the very least they have a roof over their heads, food to eat, access to modern amenities (like heat and running water), and a family that seems to care at least a little about their well-being. I absolutely disagree with a lot of their beliefs, but I do think that JB and Michelle love their children - they don't express that the way I would and they don't do a good job preparing them for real life, but if there are no blatant signs of abuse or neglect then there isn't much anyone can do. I would be far more worried about kids like in that Pennington Point family - the one daughter who did get out can't even get proper identification because her parents' never registered her birth!

[eri]

Rather than feeling sad, you should feel happy. She certainly seems happy now married and ready to have her first child. We all have our favorite Duggar kid and feel protective, but nobody held a gun to her head to get married. I am sure JB was very encouraging, but it was her choice, whether is be for the fame or just her love of Derrick. Contrary to popular belief, I don't think the Duggars would have denied her the ability to become a nurse had she truly insisted she wanted to go that route. Joe is now going to college and they have never ever said they were against college in the first place.

Was it her choice though? Is it really fair to be brought up not to consider any other options?

We would all think we are living happiness by having as many kids as possible if we were indoctrinated like that. Does that really mean her parents get off scotch-free even though they discouraged all vocations besides homemaker?

[nataraja]

Does anybody among us actually know what Jana really wants for her life and what would make her happy? I guess, not.

So we can't really tell if breaking away would actually make her happy and we can't even tell if living in "fundyland" is actually making her unhappy.

Maybe if someone forced her to leave the quiverful lifestyle and her family, she would only end up living with severe loneliness and with a job she doesn't enjoy.

BTW does anybody remember the moment in 2012 when three members of freejinger crashed a Maxwell event? They also told at least one Maxwell child that if they want to leave there are people who are willing to help them.

[fabkiwi06]

I think at this point, the Duggars have enough "worldly experiences" through TLC that if the kids were in any real danger or really wanted out of that lifestyle, they'd have ample opportunities to safely exit or distance themselves from the show. Who knows... maybe that's why we're seeing less of some of the older kids.

I worry more about the families that don't have TV shows, and don't have enough food on the table, and whose kids are actually being abused and harmed instead of just being raised in a manner I personally don't agree with.