Personal Conviction vs Biblical Principles

[roddma]

The Duggars claim they got the personal convictions of modest dress and no birth control by reading the Bible.I think they confuse the two. When you make personal preferences or conviction it isnt necessarily Biblical based on you interpretations and you dont sin when you break them.For eg "Wear modest apparel" can be interpreted many different ways. To most people it would mean to dress in a respectful way, not wear skirts only.If you want to do that fine, but dont use ti as a measuring stick for another person's righteousness.This is what causes legalism.

[jinseng]

All devoted followers of IBLP/ATI have exactly the same principles/standards/convictions. Absolutely none of their beliefs are self-made, or derived from genuine family bible time together. You can watch the basic seminar, the advanced seminar, the anger resolution seminar and the financial freedom seminar on the Embassy Institute website for $9 per month. Absolutely every single idea the Duggars hold that might seem original or unique is clearly mandated through these seminars, and all families in the cult are expected to follow the same set of rules in order to achieve success in life. I highly recommend anyone interested pays to watch the content. It gave me shivers to realise how much of the Duggars lives has been warped around these Bill Gothard seminars. You can even hear Michelle and JimBob talk about Bill Gothard and attending their first basic seminar etc, and it's very creepy listening to them talk more openly about their leader (something they are yet to do in mainstream media).

[formergothardite]

All devoted followers of IBLP/ATI have exactly the same principles/standards/convictions. Absolutely none of their beliefs are self-made, or derived from genuine family bible time together. You can watch the basic seminar, the advanced seminar, the anger resolution seminar and the financial freedom seminar on the Embassy Institute website for $9 per month. Absolutely every single idea the Duggars hold that might seem original or unique is clearly mandated through these seminars, and all families in the cult are expected to follow the same set of rules in order to achieve success in life. I highly recommend anyone interested pays to watch the content. It gave me shivers to realise how much of the Duggars lives has been warped around these Bill Gothard seminars. You can even hear Michelle and JimBob talk about Bill Gothard and attending their first basic seminar etc, and it's very creepy listening to them talk more openly about their leader (something they are yet to do in mainstream media).

I've never actually listed to any of the Embassy Institute videos because I have reached my lifetime limit for Gothard teachings, but I bet it is interesting to see how different Jim Bob and Michelle talk about their beliefs when they are talking to fellow cult members. Have you watched any of Gil and Kelly's videos? I bet they sing an entirely different tune when they speak to their fellow cult members too.

And yes all the rules Jim Bob, Michelle, Gil and Kelly follow are the rules Gothard teaches as Basic Life Principles.

[SassyPants]

I've never actually listed to any of the Embassy Institute videos because I have reached my lifetime limit for Gothard teachings, but I bet it is interesting to see how different Jim Bob and Michelle talk about their beliefs when they are talking to fellow cult members. Have you watched any of Gil and Kelly's videos? I bet they sing an entirely different tune when they speak to their fellow cult members too.

And yes all the rules Jim Bob, Michelle, Gil and Kelly follow are the rules Gothard teaches as Basic Life Principles.

Would you consider Gothardism a cult?

[Cleopatra7]

When the Duggars, the Bateses, or any other ATI family start talking about "personal convictions," I always interpret that to mean, "In a perfect Bible-based society everyone would do exactly as Bill Gothard, our all-seeing, all-knowing leader, teaches but we're going to call it 'personal conviction' in public so we come off better to the heathens." In Gothardland, so-called Biblical Principles apply to everyone, whether you're in ATI or not, so they really aren't personal convictions at all, but laws that govern existence. For some reason, Gothard never explains how so many non-Christians and non-ATI people manage to do just fine without his "Biblical Principles."

[eh02]

Fundies tend to be big on "interpreting the Bible literally" and just go on blind faith that their Great Leader of choice has interpreted it the "right" way.

The whole "conviction" thing is BS. They basically just have some cultlike standards set by select influential people, and that's that. People like the Duggars have no higher level critical thinking skills to see how the Biblical standards vs. conviction thing DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. It's basically just their easy out to any hard question. "Why do you only wear skirts?" "God gave me that conviction." "But why?" "God said so." I mean, what can you even say to an argument like that? It's so illogical you can't even really engage someone in a real discussion. And I think that's the point.

People have been trying to interpret the Bible in just about every way possible for thousands of years, and even Biblical scholars who study it their whole lives disagree on many things - yet somehow people will believe an idiot like Gothard is equipped to tell the world what Jesus REALLY meant.

[SassyPants]

Fundies tend to be big on "interpreting the Bible literally" and just go on blind faith that their Great Leader of choice has interpreted it the "right" way.

The whole "conviction" thing is BS. They basically just have some cultlike standards set by select influential people, and that's that. People like the Duggars have no higher level critical thinking skills to see how the Biblical standards vs. conviction thing DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. It's basically just their easy out to any hard question. "Why do you only wear skirts?" "God gave me that conviction." "But why?" "God said so." I mean, what can you even say to an argument like that? It's so illogical you can't even really engage someone in a real discussion. And I think that's the point.

People have been trying to interpret the Bible in just about every way possible for thousands of years, and even Biblical scholars who study it their whole lives disagree on many things - yet somehow people will believe an idiot like Gothard is equipped to tell the world what Jesus REALLY meant.

Agreed.

Plus if you take the Bible (or OT) literally, why would you need Gothard or anyone for that matter, to interpret the meaning?

[formergothardite]

Would you consider Gothardism a cult?

Very much so. Many former students do. Here is a great blog post written by a former student about coming to see IBLP/ATI as a cult.

http://micahjmurray.com/bill-gothard-homeschool-cult/

[SassyPants]

Very much so. Many former students do. Here is a great blog post written by a former student about coming to see IBLP/ATI as a cult.

http://micahjmurray.com/bill-gothard-homeschool-cult/

Thank you!

[roddma]

recoveringrace.org has many stories to back up the claims of it being a cult. Midwest Outreach has a long article about the Dangerous Leanings of Bill Gothard, but too lazy to get link now.

Michelle wore pants when they first married and said one day God laid it on her heart to wear skirts/dresses. But was that before or after ATI? I also think the made the no birth control conviction' prior to joining ATI. It seems they made them and just happen to find a faith that supported that and ran with the rest.