Duggars Vs. Bates

[SassyPants]

10 minutes ago, calimojo said:

I think we need to remember that the Duggars have a way of exaggerating, (remember Jana being a concert pianist?)  So when they claim to be working in real estate or that they have a license, I am suspect.  That would be like them trying to claim that Jinger is a used car saleswoman.  They might help out with JB's real estate ventures, but I don't believe any of them are selling property on their own. 

 

When Jessa made that claim, that she and Ben work in Real Estate in her Dad's business,  I took that to mean that Ben gets to clean the toilets on the properties that JB owns, and Jessa gets to maybe help with some of the paperwork at the very most. 

Paperwork, like putting the TP on the roller?

[calimojo]

Oh my,  just spit out my wine on that one @SassyPants!

But Yes, I was thinking that because Ben would need a reliability partner and so would Jessa

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, amandaaries said:

The best way I've heard it framed was as a question: Have you heard of the country Hispania?

That's okay, because none of us has heard of this country.  It's an invented category.  The history of the indigenous meeting with the colonizers and the slaves is complex and multi-faceted, with a LOT of time involved. The lightest to the darkest amongst us could fall into that category, provided our parents were from the right places and spoke Spanish, Portuguese, or an indigenous language.   

 The truth is that all such categories are arbitrary.  In the 19th Century, the Irish and Polish immigrants were seen as belonging to a different "race" than the German, English and Scandinavian immigrants. Now some of the descendants of the Irish and Polish immigrants claim to be "superior" because they are "white" and others aren't.  Jews in America are considered a different "race" in some contexts, but not on most documents that ask about ethnicity. (I think there is a question in the Census, but it is the only place--and it is about ethnic origins/religion, as I recall.)   A white skinned person in the US is expected to identify his/her race as "black" if even one of his/her parents is classified/identified as "black."  Some members of Native American communities  in Virginia lost their identity as Native Americans when an a prejudiced state official in the late 19th or early 20th century decided that there were only 2 possible designations in the state: white and colored. (I read this in the context of what has happened to some of the descendants of the Powhatan people, the folks "Pocahontas" came from.)

The classification of Hispanic derives its name from Hispania, which is what the Romans called the territory that is now Spain and Portugal.  The term is useful to refer to people who inherit cultural elements and traditions from Spain and Portugal.  It is not useful to refer to a race because many "races" comprise the "Hispanic" and always did. 

Some people who are classified as Hispanic prefer to be identified by country of origin, which is where your question about the country "Hispania" comes from.  Mexican-Americans are not the same as Puerto Rican-Americans and vice-versa.  But we do have some cultural links. We just aren't a "race."

[THERetroGamerNY]

I know about Hispania from the endless history books I read. The name is shrouded in mystery as to it's origins, but one theory holds that it is a Punic cognate of a Hebrew word which means "Island of Rabbits."

Truly this is the most important thing in all of its history.

[OrchidBlossom]

18 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I so wish I was fluent in another language just so I could do this. 

It is VERY fun. I also speak Spanish and I also look (and am!) very northern european in heritage so spanish-speaking people often assume I can't understand them. Sometimes I mess with them, sometimes I just listen and learn. 

[MarblesMom]

8 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I grew up in Puerto Rico,

So did I!  Fajardo here 

[nastyhobbitses]

3 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

It is VERY fun. I also speak Spanish and I also look (and am!) very northern european in heritage so spanish-speaking people often assume I can't understand them. Sometimes I mess with them, sometimes I just listen and learn. 

This was my favorite pastime when I lived in China. So many times I would hear people talk about me within earshot because they assumed I couldn't understand, and I'd just bust out asking directions or making small talk. 我听得懂, guys. And it was great in the opposite way, because if I just wanted to be alone on a bus or whatever, I could just pretend I couldn't speak or understand Mandarin. I also would sometimes walk close to tour groups so I could listen to the guide and get some more vocabulary.

Though I usually was totally fine with the fact that people would assume I couldn't speak Mandarin (I don't remotely look like someone who would speak it -- Caucasian with light brown hair, brown eyes, and super-pale skin), I once got pretty offended when I went to lunch with the other teachers at my school and some teachers from the next village over. The teachers from the other school, despite me greeting them and trying to make conversation with them in Mandarin, would ask my co-workers stuff like "can she speak Chinese?" I JUST FUCKING SAID HELLO TO YOU AND ASKED WHAT SUBJECT YOU TEACH. "Can she use chopsticks?" I AM SITTING TWO FUCKING FEET AWAY FROM YOU EATING LUNCH AND GUESS WHAT THE FUCK UTENSIL I'M USING. "Does she eat Chinese food?" DID THE SPICY NOODLES I AM EATING SUDDENLY TRANSFORM INTO MCDONALDS  WHAT THE FUCK. Later I asked my co-workers why the other teachers seemed to refuse to acknowledge that I could communicate with them just fine, and they said that they didn't want to embarrass me by making me speak my second language, and had never seen a foreigner in real life. After that experience, I do my very best to combat ignorant or condescending attitudes towards foreigners and immigrants, because after I felt so exposed and ignored at the same time, I didn't want anyone else to feel like that ever again.

[Ali]

On 4/23/2016 at 6:40 AM, VelociRapture said:

I so wish I was fluent in another language just so I could do this. 

I once accepted a furniture delivery for my parents. The delivery guys had difficulties getting one of the pieces of furniture in the house. They damaged one of the pieces of furniture when they brought it in the door. Before I could say anything about it, they started talking in Spanish about where it was damaged and whether or not to say something about it right in front of me. I am not fluent in Spanish, but I knew enough, at that time, to understand most of the conversation. I had fun sitting there thinking about how I should handle it, but then one of them decided to tell me.

[EmCatlyn]

14 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

So did I!  Fajardo here 

I think we may have discussed it before -- your family was with the military?  My parents lived in the San Juan/Santurce area until 1978 or so. I went off to college in 1973 and only visited at Xmas and parts of the summer after that.  And when my parents moved, I stopped visiting there. I still stay in touch with some friends though.

[nausicaa]

On 4/24/2016 at 4:21 AM, nastyhobbitses said:

Though I usually was totally fine with the fact that people would assume I couldn't speak Mandarin (I don't remotely look like someone who would speak it -- Caucasian with light brown hair, brown eyes, and super-pale skin), I once got pretty offended when I went to lunch with the other teachers at my school and some teachers from the next village over. The teachers from the other school, despite me greeting them and trying to make conversation with them in Mandarin, would ask my co-workers stuff like "can she speak Chinese?" I JUST FUCKING SAID HELLO TO YOU AND ASKED WHAT SUBJECT YOU TEACH. "Can she use chopsticks?" I AM SITTING TWO FUCKING FEET AWAY FROM YOU EATING LUNCH AND GUESS WHAT THE FUCK UTENSIL I'M USING. "Does she eat Chinese food?" DID THE SPICY NOODLES I AM EATING SUDDENLY TRANSFORM INTO MCDONALDS  WHAT THE FUCK. Later I asked my co-workers why the other teachers seemed to refuse to acknowledge that I could communicate with them just fine, and they said that they didn't want to embarrass me by making me speak my second language, and had never seen a foreigner in real life. After that experience, I do my very best to combat ignorant or condescending attitudes towards foreigners and immigrants, because after I felt so exposed and ignored at the same time, I didn't want anyone else to feel like that ever again.

Gosh, yes. Living overseas and being "the foreigner" was such a freakin' enlightening experience for me on a visceral level. (Some) people assuming you're dumb or have no personality because you aren't fluent in the language, people assuming you don't speak the language at all while you're in the middle of reading and speaking the language, people telling you what your country is like (usually broad stereotypes) while you sit there saying no actually, it's not like that-- to no avail.

I'd like to think I was polite to non-native English speakers and immigrants to the US before, but after living overseas, I definitely had a lot more empathy for what they go through.

[nastyhobbitses]

23 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Gosh, yes. Living overseas and being "the foreigner" was such a freakin' enlightening experience for me on a visceral level. (Some) people assuming you're dumb or have no personality because you aren't fluent in the language, people assuming you don't speak the language at all while you're in the middle of reading and speaking the language, people telling you what your country is like (usually broad stereotypes) while you sit there saying no actually, it's not like that-- to no avail.

I'd like to think I was polite to non-native English speakers and immigrants to the US before, but after living overseas, I definitely had a lot more empathy for what they go through.

I mean, fuck Donald Trump for several reasons, but especially fuck him because the instant someone sees/hears/Spidey-senses that I'm American, I have to steel myself for either a rant about how awful Donald Trump is (preaching to the choir, honey), or how Americans are all so stupid for voting for him. Though I will admit that some of the weirder broad stereotypes about America have made me chuckle. Apparently I'm way skinnier than Americans are supposed to be (but still fat by China standards), it's weird that I like to eat things other than hamburgers and french fries, I'm a "good"/"cool" American because I am not rabidly right-wing, I carry a machine gun everywhere I go in America, and as an American girl with American sexual morals, I'm a huge slut who sleeps with everyone she meets. I've been tempted to just go "fuck it" and cultivate the image of a hamburger-guzzling, gun-toting harlot while abroad.

I really do think that international travel and work have given me a much richer perspective on life, and have made me so aware of how it feels to be an outsider or reduced to stereotypes. I don't want other people to feel like that.

[Imagine20]

Our apartment complex is predominantly immigrants from Tamil Nadu, India. So, my husband will be in the elevator or outside smoking a cigarette and will just eavesdrop on all their Tamil conversations they think are private. (Tamil is his first language.) I think they assume he's Middle Eastern or something. 

In today's world, people should never  assume others can't understand their conversation. 

[nastyhobbitses]

57 minutes ago, Imagine20 said:

Our apartment complex is predominantly immigrants from Tamil Nadu, India. So, my husband will be in the elevator or outside smoking a cigarette and will just eavesdrop on all their Tamil conversations they think are private. (Tamil is his first language.) I think they assume he's Middle Eastern or something. 

In today's world, people should never  assume others can't understand their conversation. 

I had a science teacher in middle school who had a great story about this: her family came to the US from Estonia, and her first language is Estonian, which isn't spoken very much outside of Estonia and only has about 1 million total native speakers. She and her sister would always talk shit about people in Estonian, since hey, most of the people who can speak the language are back in Estonia. One day, they were doing this on a bus...and the woman they were making fun of whirled around and gave them an absolutely legendary tongue-lashing in Estonian. Always assume that someone speaks your language and can understand you.

[Screamapillar]

41 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Always assume that someone speaks your language and can understand you.

Perfect example:

Spoiler

 

 

[Bugaboo]

My step mom dated a Pakistani guy at one time and my step sister was enamored by the culture and language. She was no older than 10 at the time. My step mom and step sister went to a store and these guys were talking badly about them in Urdu, the Pakistani language. My step sister had learned Urdu from my step mom's boyfriend and spoke it fluently. She cursed them out in Urdu and they had a look of horror on their faces because a little blonde haired, blue eyed girl cursed them out in Urdu. 

[CorruptionInc.]

For some reason, I encounter a lot of couples arguing in French.

Sometimes I listen, sometimes I don't; however there have been a few times where I have said the equivalent of "don't speak to your wife / husband / partner like that".

The mortified looks - hopefully, it teaches them to be more polite to their spouse in future.

Mind you my French is getting worse because I spend 99% of the time speaking English now...

[Apricot]

My OH learned how to say "I know what you're saying" in a few languages, he likes creeping people out with that, even though that's pretty much the only thing he can say!

[downtherabbithole]

17 hours ago, Apricot said:

My OH learned how to say "I know what you're saying" in a few languages, he likes creeping people out with that, even though that's pretty much the only thing he can say!

I think about that 90% of the time while listening to people speak other language. I can understand a little spanish, but most of the time they talk too fast for me.