Radaronline: Jana said no to courting Zach

[Coco]

I guess I am in the minority here and I don't see tension between them either. Jim Bob was one of the main reasons they were able to get their house re-done and the kids are obviously very fond of each other and stay with one another quite a bit based on photos. And I think there have been some nice moments with Kelly and Michelle, though Michelle's demeanor was more superficial, but I think that is just her.

They may have rekindled their friendship just for those early episodes of the show, but I do think it is genuine. At least as genuine as Michelle and Jim Bob can be.

Is there competition? Perhaps, as we all know JB is competitive and Gil seems like he is too. I could see some tension developing if the Duggars perceived that the Bates Family was stealing their thunder. So far they all seem to support one another's endeavors. I am also certain that the reason Joseph is going to Crown, is the proximity to the Bates Family. So the clearly trust one another with their kids, even after the miscalculated "Kidnap" situation. I watched that episode recently and I really think that describing Kelly's reaction as "livid" is a bit hyperbolic. In fact when I watched it a second time, I almost felt like the situation was somewhat scripted and she knew or assumed JB was behind it the whole time, but TLC played it up a bit to show what a "character" that Jim Bob is.

If she had truly believed her kids were kidnapped, Camera's rolling or not, I think Kelly is enough of a Mother Bear that she would have torn JB a new one. Kelly may have the whole "Submissive" wife theme going, but I think it is pretty clear that she is a force to be reckoned with and I imagine she is the Neck that control's Gil's head most of the time, on matters that matter to her.

You're right, livid was a little strong :lol: but being from the south too i could see she was pissed. In the "grit your teeth and keep sweet because he's a man but hold a grudge" way.

[RosyDaisy]

I think JB only wants yes men that he can boss around for is pretty princesses. A Bates girl for one of sons, sending Joseph to Crown College in Bates territory is just too much of a coincidence to completely ignore for now. He did agree with the Josh/Anna marriage, and the Keller's are ATI.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

But I wonder if they see each other more like cousins, since they grew up pretty close. Close family friends of mine would never cross my mind as potential spouses, simply because I grew up with them.

My best friends family and my family have been best friends since our moms were pregnant. We lived across the street from each other for a few years and have been a huge part of each other's lives. We even spent weeks at a time at each other's houses when we lived in other states.

That never stopped me from crushing on her brother.

Another one of my moms best friends (they'd been best friends since high school) had a son my age. There was a time when we liked each other.

My brothers "brother" (they've been best friends since they were 18 months old) has a cousin my age. Said cousin and I were practically raised together from the age of 10. We ended up dating in high school, college, and 2 years ago. We even talked about marriage.

Long story short: being raised knowing each other doesn't mean you're always going to see each other as undateable.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Even if the Bates parents and Duggar parents dislike each other, I doubt they'd risk people finding out the blocked a courtship between their kids. But I really don't think they really dislike each other. Kelly obviously doesn't like JBs pranks and Michelle was CLEARLY mortified when she found out. (She was trying a bit too hard to keep it sweet. I'm sure there was a lot of yelling off screen.) But I think they do like each other. They spend too much time sending their kids back and forth.

[Letgo]

If that were the case they wouldn't need to have chaperones to keep them accountable.

At what age would a 'child' be allowed to go on an unchaperoned outing?

There is no age that could have an unchaparoned outing. At any age there is ALWAYS the possibility of sin. They also want to avoid even the appearance of potential wrong doing so unmarried couples are never alone. The chaparone can verify that nothing sinful occurred and that both parties are maintaining purity. Even though the Duggars have been raised with proper ATI/IBLP teachings, they aren't taking any chances. Accountability is VERY important to them. I've always wondered how this magically changes with marriage-suddenly Jill and Jessa are okay to be home alone while their husbands are working? Once married they can go grocery shopping alone? Drive alone? The system really makes no sense. Children should have adult values by age 12, but can't be alone. Couples can't be alone in spite of their careful upbringing; are they really so afraid of sin and lust, or is it just to maintain the show of purity?

[lawlifelgbt]

(snip) I hope (Josiah) has the sense to run! But, maybe Jana's tired of raising her family's kids- granted, she's still doing that, but there are no babies, and she has Jinger and Joy, at least, to help. If she got married- there'd be a literal tsunami of crap to deal with when she had babies! And I think she's changed enough diapers. :ew:

[DGayle]

I don't see this Bates/Duggar dislike at all. How do they show this? I am really curious about this idea that they don't like each other. I have seen others post the same. Or that the men like each other but the women don't, or vice versa. The families make trips to see each other-why do that if you can't stand the people you are going to visit? The Duggars could simply never have had the Bates family on the show. What evidence is there that they can't stand each other? I could see a rivalry to have Child #20, but not dislike or enmity. And thankfully, I doubt either family will reach #20.

Michelle and Kelly are never friendly with each other. At best, they're civil. Their body language speaks loudly. They're pretty clearly in competition with each other, and when there was a new baby, there was a clear lack of excitement for the other.

JB & G seem friendlier, not really buddies, but a lot like they are least can hang out and have some fun. But their trips to see each other are absolutely always arranged for a convenient show time. If they were really friends, they wouldn't worry so much about what lines up for a show's storyline.

[DGayle]

Most of their visits haven't been featured on the show. I remember seeing Lawson in the background of an episode. Zach has said that John David is one of his best friends. If there was some tension between the two families, would the Bates have allowed the some of the kids to celebrate Christmas with the Duggars?

An individual visiting isn't a big deal, and probably a couple of the kids in each family are friends with each other, genuinely. But you aren't going to be able to keep 21 people out of sight.

I think the Bateses and Duggars would celebrate anything together if it meant money. Money is their real religion.

[Coconut Flan]

!

{TEXT1}:

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[Kira]

An individual visiting isn't a big deal, and probably a couple of the kids in each family are friends with each other, genuinely. But you aren't going to be able to keep 21 people out of sight.

I think the Bateses and Duggars would celebrate anything together if it meant money. Money is their real religion.

It's not just individual visits or a couple of kids. There is a ton of evidence on IG. Most of it hasn't been on the show.

[MoonFace]

There is no age that could have an unchaparoned outing. At any age there is ALWAYS the possibility of sin. They also want to avoid even the appearance of potential wrong doing so unmarried couples are never alone. The chaparone can verify that nothing sinful occurred and that both parties are maintaining purity. Even though the Duggars have been raised with proper ATI/IBLP teachings, they aren't taking any chances. Accountability is VERY important to them. I've always wondered how this magically changes with marriage-suddenly Jill and Jessa are okay to be home alone while their husbands are working? Once married they can go grocery shopping alone? Drive alone? The system really makes no sense. Children should have adult values by age 12, but can't be alone. Couples can't be alone in spite of their careful upbringing; are they really so afraid of sin and lust, or is it just to maintain the show of purity?

So, if JB or Michele kick the bucket and the one that is left wants to marry again they need to have a chaperone as well!!!!

Seems like there isn't much difference in the Duggars and women in some Muslim countries concerning being alone other than wearing a burka.

[Walking Cat Bed]

IF there is any truth to the original story, I'd call it a positive -- Jana CAN decline courtship with anyone she does not see as a match. Much better than the idea that JB chooses, and the kids follow his directive.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Zach and Whitney seem to be a very good match. Zach and Jana: nah, wouldn´t have worked imho.

I think this constant Bates/Duggars pairing up is quite a bit kitschy. Why they MUST be friends and marry into each others family, just because both are large families? The parents obviously can´t stand each other anyway.

So true on the mothers at least. You can just hear them both saying "Bless her heart..." in that snarky way Church women have. I think the men do get along just fine.

I think its bond to happen that a Duggar/Bates will marry unless both families relax a whole lot. I think Zach got to marry his Sonic Waitress because of being thrown under the bus on tv when he proposed to the girl who couldn't stand him. I rewatched that the other night and it was utterly pathetic.

[silverspoons]

I think Kelly is very greatful for the Duggar's help with the home addition & gifts. Kelly still uses the Duggar's old green dinig room table. I see Kelly as caring about the Duggars espcially the kids. Sometimes I think Kelly might know the Duggar kids (or kids in general) better then Michelle.

Gil and Jim Bob I see differently. Gil was what Jim Bob wanted to be as a teen and young adult. Jim Bob admits he was the shy, non athletic kid who didn't date much. Gil excelled at many sports, had friends and was popular in school. Gil had dates and went off to college as a student athlete. Jim Bob I think liked to brag that he (up until 2 years ago), had 1 more kid then Gil. Somehow making one more kid, made Jim Bob more of a man. Jim Bob loved to point to he had the new better bus and Gil has the hand me down. While I think Gil and Jim Bob have a good time "fellowshipping", it is more because Jim Bob finally gets to play with a cool friend and Gil is just nice.

As for Jana, not sure I believe this rumor. If it is true I can see why see would say no. Zach reminds me a bit of JD and maybe she doesn't want to marry a man like her brother. JD and Zach both have run for office, held various volunteer positions police/safety, and hold down several jobs to make ends meet. Both seems more mechnical then into books. I see Jana wanting a stable provider with a clear career path. I also see her wanting to stay within a reasonable distance of her home. Maybe not next door but at least within a days drive. I think she is very attached to her younger siblings and wouldnt want to move too far away.

[CorruptionInc.]

While I believe Kelly is very grateful for all the help from Mullet and Boob (as well as Gil); I think the woman might have a little bit of trouble keeping sweet if a Bates was dating a Duggar.

Gil and Kelly don't expect their kids to have 19 kids each like the other two; I don't think it is their aim to populate Arkansas, Tennesee etc. with uneducated fundamentalist Christians. However I think she would be troubled by the Duggars expecting her child to have 19 kids as well.

[RosyDaisy]

Well there was also a rumor posted here that Kelly was more or less pimping Zach to fundies with available daughters until his courtship with Whitney became official. I don't know the original source though.

[fabkiwi06]

An former housemate of mine worked for a gossip magazine. And yeah they just made shit up. Sometime they where right though ;)

I doubt they are in this case!

Sorry to drag this comment up, but yes! I swear 90% of "blind items" are taking what we already know about a celeb and bumping it up in gossip just slightly so it's believable.

As far as this story... It's believable enough but I would believe it more if it was a different pairing of kids.

I'm thinking JB has less control over Jana than we think. If this story is true... she's able to call some of the shots in major areas of her life and that IS a major positive. It would lead me to believe she isn't CinderJana after all.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Sorry to drag this comment up, but yes! I swear 90% of "blind items" are taking what we already know about a celeb and bumping it up in gossip just slightly so it's believable.

As far as this story... It's believable enough but I would believe it more if it was a different pairing of kids.

I'm thinking JB has less control over Jana than we think. If this story is true... she's able to call some of the shots in major areas of her life and that IS a major positive. It would lead me to believe she isn't CinderJana after all.

Honestly, I believe that JB would love to be able to marry off all his daughters. I'm not sure about his sons, but definitely his daughters. I honestly believe he's been trying to set his daughters up for years. And I also believe rhat he won't push a courtship the daughters aren't interested in.

I also don't think "Michelle wanting slaves" would be enough of a reason for him to deny his girls courtships if that's the path they wanted to take. Nor do I believe that Michelle would hold her daughters back from marriage, especially now that Josie is 5.

I think Jana just hasn't found the guy she's willing to court yet. Which I think is fine. I don't think 25 is too old to be single (I mean I'm 28 and single). And I also don't have a problem with her living at home (I lived at home until I was 27), especially if living at home means she's not being forced into marriage.

As for the "more believable if it was other pairings," I'll second that. I definitely think Erin and JD would have been more believable than Jana and Zach.

[Alexa]

I am sure there is a lot of competition between the two families about who will have more grandchildren, whose kids will marry better, whose kids are getting married off first etc. However, they have enough beliefs in common, particularly political and religious that they like/respect each other. I bet it rankles Jim Bob a little bit that one of Gil's daughters married a senator's son and not a yard boy. I also remember how snarky Jessa was about Erin's pink bedroom and their rather rude gift of a cookbook for her. At the time I thought maybe there was some resentment from the Duggar girls that they weren't courting. Jana and Michael seem to genuinely like each other though.

At the end of the day both Jim Bob and Gil know that a courtship between the 2 families would be a publicity draw and great television.

[Fluffypaws]

Where can I see the part where Jim bob kidnaps the Bates kids? I would like to see everyone's expressions. :D

[BirthingGodsWarriors]

I've never seen the actual event on film, just the re telling, and I would say Kelly being livid would be quite the stretch. Erin cracked me up with her line, "everyone just looking at us like we fell off the back of a cucumber truck." Ahaha! I do find it crazy that they were playing pranks while getting ready for Grandpa Duggar's funeral, but it is the Duggars after all.

tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/videos/jim-bob-pulls-a-prank/

[Four is Enough]

I can totally see Jana refusing the advances of any man. If she marries, the entire baby-rearing circus starts all over again for her. Geez. If she stays at home, the baby rearing is almost done for now. She can take a break, maybe marry in a few years. Have a few kids at an older age, and live a more "normal" life. I can see her refusing as a way of controlling both her fertility and her interests. At least now she has a tiny bit of say as to the way her days go. I'm betting she has more hours now that the babies aren't babies, and she can do her piano, harp, or what have you to her heart's content.

[singsingsing]

The rumours about Kelly desperately going around trying to drum up interest in Zach from proper fundie girls because she didn't want him to marry Whitney came from the user 'wutwuzdat' who claimed he/she lived near the Bateses and knew people who knew them (also that he/she worked with Zach for a short time). I don't really have any doubt that he/she was telling the truth -he/ she had info before it became public, like Chad working in the scrap metal yard, and when John asked Alyssa to court. Whether that means his/her gossip had any substance to it, who knows.

Here are some other things he/she said (all from early November 2013):

"I heard Erin didn't go to church last Sunday because she was at home crying she's so nervous over the wedding. She also asked Gil if Chad could just move in with the family because she doesn't want to move out. She gets treated like a queen over there and waited on hand and foot. She's always been a stuck up who is better than everyone else. I can only imagine what she will be doing at home all alone while Chad is at work. She's going to have to start taking on responsibilities and 9 months after tomorrow even more so (Provided they figure out how things work, lol)"

"On the topic of the wedding [Erin's], I heard that at the end they took up a collection for the honeymoon. My understanding is Grandmother Bates (Jane?) was furious saying it was inappropriate"

In reply to any other 'special friendships': "I believe Lawson is on the prowl looking for someone but there are no other special friendships that I'm aware of." and, "She's [Michael] been asked for several times but she/and or Gil has always turned them down. I don't know why"

"That's a long answer. When I first met them it was cool and kinda a novelty. After getting to know them better and see how they treat their "friends" is appalling. Once they milk the cow dry and you can no longer benefit the family they are done with you. You'll not hear from them unless they have a problem they think you can help with or they have a wedding and want gifts. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Gil tell people he has 19 kids in a effort to get a discount or something given to them. Everyone in the family has come to expect stuff for free."

"I know Zach the best of any of the Bates. We worked together for a short time. He's the only one that has gotten out and seen the outside world and had jobs that weren't family related. I've never met Whitney but from what I've seen/heard she grew up in a somewhat normal family with internet/TV etc. Zach won't let other guys talk to her if he can help it and they are constantly holding hands. I think they are love struck and she will do anything Kelly tells her to do without questioning it. Gil and Kelly very much disliked Whitney at first. She started chasing Zach right after they met at sonic. They tried to stop it with everything short of saying no. I was told that Kelly was asking around to fundie mothers that had girls of age if anyone was interested in Zach and was flabbergasted that no one was. But now that they have seen how Whit is willing to do what she's told they have accepted the situation."

"Zach can't wait to get out of the house. I think he will be less fundie than his parents, at least for a while. I think that Lawson (mainly for the reason of dad spending his money) and possibly Alyssa may be on the fence. Michael, Nathan for sure are staying by the kool-aid station"

He/she hasn't posted since November 7th, 2013. Too bad because he/she clearly had a lot of 'insider' information about them.

[eh02]

That's some interest info, if it's true. I definitely believe Michael's blood has probably turned to pure fundie Koolaid by now. Really, Michael is one of the very few fundie adults we follow who I would truly expect to continue the same lifestyle, especially considering the kind of weird (sorry), ultra-IBLP guy she found for herself. And she is the only one I would be SHOCKED to, say, wear pants someday, or attend a more mainstream church.

And Michael is, as far as I can remember, the only one who when asked how many kids she has, didn't just vaguely, mysteriously say "we'll see what God gives us," but flat-out admitted she wanted as many as possible, and very enthusiastically.

I definitely believe the info about Erin. I always got the impression she was very high maintenance and sensitive, which is why lately I've been pretty surprised (in a good way) about how her demeanor has changed. Being out of her house with Chad must be really good for her. She seems much more mature and confident - like she's actually gotten her shit together. It's a pretty big change for just a few years, which does make me think Chad could be a big part of it.

And I've always gotten the impression that Whitney didn't 100% fit in. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Kelly and Gil dislike her, but she has a very different personality from fundie women. More laid back. I think she is a good match for Zach - he got lucky with the way things worked out! He probably really dodged some bullets if Kelly was desperately trying to marry him off to any fundie woman she could get her hands on.

[BullyJBG]

I'm starting to wonder now, if Mrs Ashleigh-Splashleigh who runs that fake blog works for, or knows someone who works for RadarOnline. For a time I thought maybe she was the same person as WhatWuzDat, but yeah; a lot that was said by this person seemed to be accurate.

I imagine Michelle and Kelly cried on each other's shoulders over the phone about Zach, but they would've been very careful. And furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if Jana's had a few very short courtships; where they meet and talk, and quickly find that they're not really suited to each other. Was Zach one? Not sure; possibly. After all, Zach DID cry with JD at times after his breakup with Sarah.

I guess the moral of the story is, take RadarOnline with a bunch of salt. LOL.