Erin (Bates) Paine is PREGNANT

[Firiel]

I don't understand why the fundies are into Fertility treatments. The whole point of letting god plan your familly is trusting him to "open and close the womb".I mean Sarah and Abraham are THE biblical story on fertility issues.

If they want to turn their nose up at birth control, the other side of that coin is fertility treatments.

It wasn't fertility treatment-- it was help sustaining a pregnancy. She has no problems getting pregnant. She just can't stay pregnant without help. ATI/IBLP folks have never had a problem with medical treatment in general. Since they believe life begins at conception, they believe that medication to sustain a pregnancy is a-okay. I disagree with many of their starting assumptions, but Erin is being internally consistent with her stated beliefs in taking medications to help the fetus survive.

[ViolaSebastian]

Aw! I'm late, but I'm genuinely happy to hear those two have worked out how to sustain a pregnancy.

That said, I'm jazzed they'll have some photographs other than the two of them to put in all those frames in their house.

I think it'll be a girl. I hope they kept the can of pink paint left over from the bedroom...

[Dandruff]

Keeping up with what is in with hair is too much of a hassle. That said, I dont really have a problem with her hair. She looks great.

As for the baby, I wonder if they'll find out the sex or not.

I think they'll find out the sex, especially if she's having frequent ultrasounds. They may also want to decorate the baby's room beforehand and it'll help family and friends know what kind of gifts to get them.

[whoviana]

I don't understand why the fundies are into Fertility treatments. The whole point of letting god plan your familly is trusting him to "open and close the womb".I mean Sarah and Abraham are THE biblical story on fertility issues.

If they want to turn their nose up at birth control, the other side of that coin is fertility treatments.

My gosh, THIS, so much! I never understood how was tampering with a woman's body in order to get her pregnant "up to God"?! And exactly, if they condemn people who use birth control, how do they have the guts to ask for fertility treatment? Shameless hypocrisy.

[singsingsing]

Which fundies are using fertility treatments, though? Kelly and Erin never did fertility treatments, they only took medicine to sustain existing pregnancies.

[whoviana]

Kelly did, didn't she? Even if she didn't they have, none of them have any business using fertility treatment. If they try to tell me, and you, and all the other women what to do with their uterus, and to lay my uterus in their god's hands, they should show a good example and accept their infertility gracefully, they owe everyone that much.

[singsingsing]

No, Kelly took hormones to sustain existing pregnancies. I can't think of a single fundie discussed here who has undergone fertility treatments (though of course that doesn't mean there are none). On principal I agree with what you're saying, but practically you may as well be saying, "Fundies are so hypocritical if they tell the rest of us not to drink alcohol and meanwhile they smoke pot!" Well yeah, they would be hypocritical if they did that, but they don't.

[whoviana]

OK, I know where you're coming from. On the other hand tho', I'm not sure that while Kelly and Michelle was still in the race for nr 20, none of them tried to conceive using fertility drugs of any sort. It is possible that they'll never share it on TV, but how much of that do we really know? These people's lives revolved around pushing out as many kids as they can, I'm not entirely convinced that they never took replacement hormones around the time they thought menopause struck.

[veron1que]

Fundies believe that life begins at conception, and once a life has formed God has given then tools and medicine to save the life. (The same way they believe micropremies should be saved using any interventions possible.)

You might say that if they believe in medicine for sustaining pregnancy why don't they believe in abortions or birth control? It may appear hypocritical, but it's not. They may believe god gave us knives so we can slaughter animals for food, but you wouldn't argue that using those knives to kill people is equally as right or what god intended when he provided knives.

[Snarkle]

Michelle may have been financially able to use fertility treatments, but Kelly sure would not have had the money.

I went through fertility treatments and didn't even need to get to IVF, yet the drugs and scans and tests were not cheap - and I was lucky enough to live in a state that covered such treatments. I recently found my medical statements from over a decade ago and there were pages and pages of charges. Also, I hope people continue to support her. If you have an underlying medical condition where a side effect/issue is some form of infertility, when you get pregnant and sustain a pregnancy, a lot of people think you're "cured" and all of your problems are now solved. No - you overcame one hurdle, but that doesn't mean there aren't lingering problems.

As for hypocrisy, yes, she is skirting a line if you want to get legalistic on their idea of not interfering with/preventing conception. But this is not conception - it's post-conception - and sustaining a pregnancy is a different situation. I nearly miscarried because of low progesterone, and after all of the treatments and finally getting a positive test, I was willing to put up with a very large gauge needle and intramuscular progesterone in oil shots (which are super viscous) to sustain my pregnancy. I met women through an infertility group (before the web made Facebook groups and blogs so popular - it was a text based site) and many of them did not tell their families how they conceived, including a secular Israeli Jew I met where both she and her husband were infertile but they manged to finally conceive twins, a DES daughter with multiple miscarriages who finally carried to term by getting injected with her husband's blood (her bod rejected his sperm until she did so - it was cutting edge then), and a devout Catholic who bent the conception rules because she felt having children was so important it was worth the sin of getting fertility help.

I also don't think anyone really "accepts infertility gracefully" if they really want children, or at least I've never met anyone who has. It's sad, it makes you angry (especially when everyone around you seems to be knocked up), it's frustrating, and it's isolating. And if you do get pregnant, it's often not the pretty picture of pregnancy you hear about so much these days, where expectant mothers are doing cross fit and yoga and marathons and working right up until their due date. It's often sustaining drugs, bedrest, many, many tests and scans, high risk OBs (not lay midwives) and pretty much doing everything you can just to stay pregnant and get as close to your due date as possible.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Michelle may have been financially able to use fertility treatments, but Kelly sure would not have had the money.

I went through fertility treatments and didn't even need to get to IVF, yet the drugs and scans and tests were not cheap - and I was lucky enough to live in a state that covered such treatments.

My employer is currently doing IUI and a very low dose of clomid. Her insurance covers it, so she doesn't have to worry about the cost; but without the insurance, it would cost her $10000 a cycle. I couldn't imagine one of these fundie families shelling out $10k a month just to get pregnant..

[stardust]

I'm one of those women who don't like babies/small children but the minute the news was confirmed I just squealed and gushed over how happy it made Erin. They really deserve this and I hope to God that she has a healthy pregnancy. Their culture would be just too cruel on a young woman who can't have kids.

Chad is such a lovely guy, as well. You can tell he cares so much about her. I'm wishing the best for both them and their baby.

[SoSoNosy]

I am happy for them; I think this baby will be loved and cherished. I think Chad will be as incredible a father as he seems to be a husband.

[AngelGirl8811]

I am also happy for them because it had to be hurting them to not have children especially Erin because she was taught that she was to be a mother and that's it. I think that they will be good parents. Girls might be smothered in pink but that's ok too!

[pugglemama]

My employer is currently doing IUI and a very low dose of clomid. Her insurance covers it, so she doesn't have to worry about the cost; but without the insurance, it would cost her $10000 a cycle. I couldn't imagine one of these fundie families shelling out $10k a month just to get pregnant..

Clomid and IUI are nowhere near that high. IVF tends to run $10-15,000 a cycle. However, you can get Clomid at Walmart for $10 and IUI usually costs about $500 out of pocket (many people do two IUIs per cycle, so still only $1000 a month, not $10,000).

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Clomid and IUI are nowhere near that high. IVF tends to run $10-15,000 a cycle. However, you can get Clomid at Walmart for $10 and IUI usually costs about $500 out of pocket (many people do two IUIs per cycle, so still only $1000 a month, not $10,000).

She just got the receipt in the mail from her insurance company stating how much they paid. Maybe it's less elsewhere, but that's what she's paying. And that's how much she paid for her first child (it ended up being $30k for him because it took 3 cycles).

[Mama Mia]

Here's a good article on the wildly different prices charged for the same procedures at different places:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... her-38000/

[Kelsey]

Clomid and IUI are nowhere near that high. IVF tends to run $10-15,000 a cycle. However, you can get Clomid at Walmart for $10 and IUI usually costs about $500 out of pocket (many people do two IUIs per cycle, so still only $1000 a month, not $10,000).

We paid similar costs for my Clomid cycles.

[nonymouse]

I am very happy for Chad and Erin. My one pregnancy was achieved after years of infertility treatments and resulted in many complications (including the need for progesterone injections and constant monitoring), a c-section and a preemie, and I can say that although I was always very happy on the outside, it changed me forever on the inside. I became much more of a realist and my priorities changed. As much as I'd love to have another child and experience pregnancy again, I will never forget what the whole experience did to my body, and I'm acutely aware that another attempt could leave my children (we adopted as well) without a mother. No matter how much Erin might be "keeping sweet" for the cameras, she'll never again be the same woman we've seen on TV for so long. It's not a bad thing, just an inevitable truth. I wish them happiness and health.

[Snarkle]

The costs vary widely depending on what one uses. If you do injections like I did (my doctor said Clomid wouldn't work for me), the drugs are a LOT costlier because you need to get syringes and often use multiple vials (I had four) every day, plus the HCG shot, plus 1-2 ultrasounds, plus the IUI itself, sperm washing, etc. If you just take Clomid and get an IUI with no monitoring (which some non-reproductive endocrinologists do), then yeah, it can be cheaper. I went through my treatments about a year after the McCaughey septuplets were born, so multiples were creating a buzz in the infertility community. My repro endo said she felt that multiples meant she didn't do her job properly - singleton pregnancies were her goal. I hoped very much for twins (one and done), but got one. I knew another woman who had one baby with her first assisted pregnancy, then switched doctors and the new doc gave her a lot more meds than she needed and she was pregnant with triplets (although one had a congenital defect and didn't make it, but would have if she had been a singleton). So yeah, WalMart may have Clomid for $10, but if someone is taking it without being monitored, it can be detrimental. A lot of doctors give out Clomid like candy, but my RE (who was very successful) said if it didn't work within three rounds, it wasn't strong enough and she switched her patients to injectible meds. I met women who had taken it in some cases for over a YEAR. That's a lot of hormones to deal with.

[Doormat12345]

Kelley was taking treatments to thicken her uterine lining artificially. She is passed child bearing years. She is trying to extend her child bearing years so she can add to the collection.

That doesn't sound like gods plan to me. I don't see a difference between injecting your body with hormones to prevent pregnancy or injecting your body to encourage pregnancy. You can dress it up however you want.

But let's take hormones out of the equation. She teaches her children that even prevention method of birth control like condoms, cervical caps, sponges, and spermacide are not part of gods plan.

I don't think there is anything wrong with either. But you can't stand on a bible and condemn others for what you do yourself.

[Firiel]

Kelley was taking treatments to thicken her uterine lining artificially. She is passed child bearing years. She is trying to extend her child bearing years so she can add to the collection.

That doesn't sound like gods plan to me. I don't see a difference between injecting your body with hormones to prevent pregnancy or injecting your body to encourage pregnancy. You can dress it up however you want.

But let's take hormones out of the equation. She teaches her children that even prevention method of birth control like condoms, cervical caps, sponges, and spermacide are not part of gods plan.

I don't think there is anything wrong with either. But you can't stand on a bible and condemn others for what you do yourself.

No, she did not inject hormones to get pregnant. She injected hormones to STAY pregnant.

There is a difference there, and that difference makes their beliefs consistent. They give their babies medical care, especially if that baby's life were in danger. For them, embryo = baby, so for them, injecting hormones to keep the embryo growing equates morally to giving a baby with a bad infection antibiotics. That's not the same as taking fertility drugs to create an embryo (which equals a baby for them).

I can't think of any Quiverfull fundies who use fertility treatments. I'm sure some do, though, and they are being hypocrites for doing so.

[justmy2cents]

Kelley was taking treatments to thicken her uterine lining artificially. She is passed child bearing years. She is trying to extend her child bearing years so she can add to the collection.

That doesn't sound like gods plan to me. I don't see a difference between injecting your body with hormones to prevent pregnancy or injecting your body to encourage pregnancy. You can dress it up however you want.

But let's take hormones out of the equation. She teaches her children that even prevention method of birth control like condoms, cervical caps, sponges, and spermacide are not part of gods plan.

I don't think there is anything wrong with either. But you can't stand on a bible and condemn others for what you do yourself.

l

Egg and sperm meet in the fallopian tube therefore life already exists when it enters the uterus. By thickening the lining with hormones they're just supporting that life that's already been created naturally. At least that's how I think they would see it so it's not the same as taking fertility drugs to get pregnant.

[DaffyDill]

Which fundies are using fertility treatments, though? Kelly and Erin never did fertility treatments, they only took medicine to sustain existing pregnancies.

That ridiculous Adeye from nogreaterjoymom.com is the first person who came to mind for me.

She is in the process of having someone elses 4 embryos transferred into her through IVF because they are l'il frozen babies dontcha know? And deserve a life, or a chance at life. This is in addition to her three biological children, her six adopted children who all have special needs. Oh, and they are moving to South Africa to open an orphanage all around the same time. Woman is a fool of the highest order.

Her craziness aside though, I don't really think she is being a hypocrite as they don't seem to be technically quiver full as they only have the three biological children. Though their adopting of all the special needs kids could make them quiver full in a sense I guess...

I suppose the question should really be "Which quiverfull fundies are using fertility treatments?" as the QF's are the ones that spout on about god determining how many children a woman has. Not all the fundies we snark on are quiver full.

[Mama Mia]

l

Egg and sperm meet in the fallopian tube therefore life already exists when it enters the uterus. By thickening the lining with hormones they're just supporting that life that's already been created naturally. At least that's how I think they would see it so it's not the same as taking fertility drugs to get pregnant.

That was an excellent explanation. I'm confused as why this seems to be a difficult distinction

for people to get? :?