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Sarah Maxwell lays a guilt trip on people who are pro-choice


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I would bet that Sarah has no idea that there are various reasons women have abortions. She has probably been told that the women having abortions had loose morals, are out there drinking, doing drugs and havin sex with anyone who has a penis. Sarah has been raised to believe that there are only extremes, the Maxwell side and the heathen side. There are no shades of gray.

Of all the fundies, I feel for Sarah the most. As much we talk the Duggar and Bates families and whether the kids are moving away from what they were taught, Sarah has never been in a situation where she can question how she was raised. She has no frame of reference other than her Steve's. It's as though she has been raised in a bubble, being sheltered would be a step up. She makes Josh Duggar look like a man of the world who can confidently pontificate on anything.

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There are no shades of gray.

There are, and there are FIFTY of them. I bet Sarah would love to read about it. :popcorn2:

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There are, and there are FIFTY of them. I bet Sarah would love to read about it. :popcorn2:

from what I have seen of both that book and Sarah's, their writing skills are on par

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There are, and there are FIFTY of them. I bet Sarah would love to read about it. :popcorn2:

The lead male character's name is Christian, clearly the book is religious in nature.

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from what I have seen of both that book and Sarah's, their writing skills are on par

:lol: I just can't bring myself to read the book because of all the reviews that critique the author's writing skills (and I tend to be resistant towards what's trendy), but I may watch the movie. I finally saw a preview and I'm intrigued.

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The sad part is, there are SO many women who can't afford that kind of "tourism". That's why I donate to organizations that help women do things like pay for childcare, hotels, or gas to get to clinics that are far (thanks Republicans, for passing legislation that closed abortion clinics in so many states). God forbid abortion becomes illegal, I would absolutely donate money to fly a woman to another country to get an abortion.

And I would drive over the border to pick them up. Even if a law were passed against that sort of trip. And I hope many other Canadians would do the same.

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Slightly OT, but making a point here: Last night, I had dinner with a friend. She commented on the fact that she's seen significant numbers of folks well over 60 working retail jobs when it's obvious that they're farwell above normal retirement age. She said, "I really doubt that most of them are still working, and for lousy pay, because they really want to." I agreed, and said, "And I find it hard to believe that they're all in such lousy situations because of poor life choices."

Yes--$#!+ happens. When I was a teenager, I COMPLETELY agreed with Sarah. I was a sheltered little Catholic girl, taught that having sex outside marriage is The Worst Thing You Can Possibly Do, and dreamed of marriage and babies. I married at 20, and, if my girlhood dreams had unfolded as I'd originally hoped, I have no doubt I'd be just as big a closed-minded twit as Sarah.

But I grew up, and learned that life, despite our best efforts, can be very, VERY messy. The romantic Mr. Wonderful I married turned out to be mentally ill and self-medicating with alcohol, so I found myself on my own with a baby, no job, no house, a 13-year-old car, and $2000 to my name. After we separated, I got it into my head that I might somehow be pregnant (unlikely, in that he was hardly a firecracker in the bedroom), and firmly decided that I'd have an abortion if I were (I wasn't).

So many girls and women who have struggled to lead "perfect" lives find themselves facing heartbreaking crises. Poor Sarah has No Freaking Clue.

And, of COURSE she isn't out helping needy moms with their babies! Of COURSE she isn't helping out at the local soup kitchen or Habitat for Humanity! If she did, she might wind up interacting with people who watch TV, or cuss, or expose their ankles, or aren't The Right Kinds of Christian[tm][/tm].

ETA that Big Mama JB's story is heartbreaking, and still all too real, given what is going in on El Salvador, where women who miscarry are in danger of being arrested for "committing abortion." My God. Don't people understand how common spontaneous abortions (aka miscarriages) are? My mother and a close friend each had three. My cousin had five. Another cousin had an ectopic pregnancy that could have killed her if it hadn't been terminated (she went on to have three kids). ALL of these pregnancies were much wanted. Imagine the agony of being charged with a crime when you're suffering so deeply.

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And I would drive over the border to pick them up. Even if a law were passed against that sort of trip. And I hope many other Canadians would do the same.

I'd chip in to help you out with gas money.

I seriously wonder that other than voting and picketing and donating what can WE do? After I got out of that nightmarish home of mine, I spend quite a few years living as a selfish person, pursuing things I never got as a kid. It took me much longer to grow up than it takes for an average person.

But I want to do something, just to contradict or counterfeit the actions of these anti-human-right hordes, and I feel like the voting-donating-picketing-petition signing is not enough anymore.

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My guess is that when Steve reads these heartbreaking stories of sad, messy, unfortunate situations is that he doesn't think, hummm, I never thought of it from that angle. Rather he thinks, well if all these females had been safely at home under their fathers' umbrella of protection, or been wearing long skirts, or cleaned more ceiling fans none of this would have happened.

Which; as we are well aware, is total and utter bullshit. Although there is very little chance that actual facts and events will ever get in the way of what he wants to believe and what he wants his little cult to believe.

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I was a sheltered Missouri Synod Lutheran and a mostly-good girl. I didn't get pregnant out of wedlock, but I did get pregnant a few weeks after starting a new job that I loved, and my husband and I were between insurance coverage-- this was well before pre-existing conditions had to be covered. The pregnancy was a result of the pill failing to work during a course of post-ear-infection antibiotics.

Anyway, after a lot of discussion, we both decided that the timing was disastrous, and with his reassurance that I could change my mind at any time and have his full support, I scheduled and went through with the abortion. I felt relief knowing I was able to make a rational and legal choice. My two healthy children were born in the years to come, to parents with good insurance and a good financial situation to ensure that they had the most stable start in life. I was able to work that job for five years, save the money, and stay home with them as babies and preschoolers.

So we're not all sluts.... sometimes the timing just isn't right. We all have different reasons. Sarah doesn't have enough life experience to understand that everyone's lives are different, everyone's reasons are different, and everyone's priorities are different. I needed to wait until I could put my family first and be completely responsible, and I have no regrets, Steve.

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I was a sheltered Missouri Synod Lutheran and a mostly-good girl. I didn't get pregnant out of wedlock, but I did get pregnant a few weeks after starting a new job that I loved, and my husband and I were between insurance coverage-- this was well before pre-existing conditions had to be covered. The pregnancy was a result of the pill failing to work during a course of post-ear-infection antibiotics.

Anyway, after a lot of discussion, we both decided that the timing was disastrous, and with his reassurance that I could change my mind at any time and have his full support, I scheduled and went through with the abortion. I felt relief knowing I was able to make a rational and legal choice. My two healthy children were born in the years to come, to parents with good insurance and a good financial situation to ensure that they had the most stable start in life. I was able to work that job for five years, save the money, and stay home with them as babies and preschoolers.

So we're not all sluts.... sometimes the timing just isn't right. We all have different reasons. Sarah doesn't have enough life experience to understand that everyone's lives are different, everyone's reasons are different, and everyone's priorities are different. I needed to wait until I could put my family first and be completely responsible, and I have no regrets, Steve.

Thank you so much for sharing your story.

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The fact is the is that The Maxwell family will never see any other side of the abortion coin. They want people to believe what they do and if they don't then they think u are a horrible person.

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In the Maxwellian way of thinking there is no excuse for an abortion EVER.

If you don't want a baby for any reason,you shouldn't be having sex. (The best contraception is an aspirin between your knees). If you're raped, you shouldn't have put yourself in a risky situation. If pregnancy is a result of 'legitimate rape'(ugh) the fertilised egg is still 100% alive and human and an abortion would be killing an innocent bystander. If a woman's life is genuinely at risk, there's no need to worry since death is the ultimate promotion. God will provide for the family left behind. And it's God's job to decide who dies and when, so there's no excuse for having an abortion if you're carrying a fetus with a condition incompatible with life. That would be like bumping off your neighbour with a terminal cancer. (He's going to die in the next few months anyway, so why not just take some initiative and take him out now?)

The only grey area would be in the case of ectopic pregnancies. And even then, I wouldn't be surprised if they considered that unethical as well. VF certainly did. The miniscule chance of having a successful pregnancy outweighed the practical certainty of maternal death.

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Does no one read Above Rubies?! A few months ago (maybe a year now) there was an "article" in there titled something like "missing from our family" or "missing from the family pictures". She talks about she and her brother were like best friends growing up and did everything together. Even though they had a great time, they always felt something was missing, but could never really figure it out. They had loving parents and everything was roses and sunshine. But then .. then she got pregnant. She was in high school and her boyfriend was in college (IIRC). She thought about keeping the baby but her mother insisted that she have an abortion because she had her whole life ahead of her. Mom told her that not everyone who had an abortion was a slut, hell even she had one "between you and your brother" "I knew it! We always knew someone was missing!!" See, she knew her whole life - without anyone ever telling her - that something was missing from her life. Now she knew what it was; her mother had killed her sibling. Well, now she definitely wasn't going to have an abortion. But here's the great part. She prayed and she married her boyfriend. Now they are still happily married and have six kids together because Jesus loves them and he makes everything better because they prayed. And there you have it. All you have to do it pray and you, too, can have a wonderful happy life without having an abortion. :angry-banghead:

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The only grey area would be in the case of ectopic pregnancies. And even then, I wouldn't be surprised if they considered that unethical as well. VF certainly did. The miniscule chance of having a successful pregnancy outweighed the practical certainty of maternal death.

I have to agree with you when it comes to ectopic pregnancies and the Maxwell's. I wonder how Steve would feel if one of the either his daughters or an daughter-in-law had one. Would be feel as though he lost a grandchild.

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I absolutely hate prolifers. Actually, hate is mild. I had my abortion in 2002. It was in Lubbock, Tx. I had to be there at 7am. Fine, cool.We weren't allowed to go in yet, because they had to search the clinic for bombs etc.I and my fellow patients were forced to duck behind the front of a pickup truck before we were allowed to go in to safety. We got to hear all that the protrstors had to say. It was pure meanness. Once, I was in the waiting room. What a relief!!! Once the abortion was over with, Freedom!!! My body was my own again.

There is a PP close to me, where no abortions are performed, and there are idiotic protestors. I hate them.

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I absolutely hate prolifers. Actually, hate is mild. I had my abortion in 2002. It was in Lubbock, Tx. I had to be there at 7am. Fine, cool.We weren't allowed to go in yet, because they had to search the clinic for bombs etc.I and my fellow patients were forced to duck behind the front of a pickup truck before we were allowed to go in to safety. We got to hear all that the protrstors had to say. It was pure meanness. Once, I was in the waiting room. What a relief!!! Once the abortion was over with, Freedom!!! My body was my own again.

There is a PP close to me, where no abortions are performed, and there are idiotic protestors. I hate them.

I am so sorry you had to go through that. Bomb checks, hiding behind a pickup truck for what is your right as an American citizen. I have no words. Well, I do and they are nasty.

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I am pro choice, unless it is an early term termination, I CHOOSE not to abort.

What another woman chooses is none of my business and I have absolutely no right to judge.

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Thank you so much to the earlier posters for sharing their stories.

I wish Sarah Maxwell were allowed to read them all, she could learn so much through your experiences.

I don't even blame her that much for posting that, hateful as it was - she might be 33 in years but in mental age she's far closer to a 5-year-old who's never yet set foot in school.

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I'm probably the least pro-choice person here. And I deeply regret my own abortion - despite being raised in a completely pro-choice environment.

But I still can not understand how anyone could possibly thing that terminating a pregnancy to save the life of the mother, or if the fetus has severe abnormalities, or if the mother is going to be traumatized forever if forced to deliver because she was raped --- how can they want to have abortion illegal in those circumstances?

And if they really want to support life in more elective cases --- they would be much better off spending their time, money and votes on providing birth control, childcare, food, housing and health care everyone.

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I'm probably the least pro-choice person here. And I deeply regret my own abortion - despite being raised in a completely pro-choice environment.

But I still can not understand how anyone could possibly thing that terminating a pregnancy to save the life of the mother, or if the fetus has severe abnormalities, or if the mother is going to be traumatized forever if forced to deliver because she was raped --- how can they want to have abortion illegal in those circumstances?

And if they really want to support life in more elective cases --- they would be much better off spending their time, money and votes on providing birth control, childcare, food, housing and health care everyone.

You might have a fight for that title. I'm not a fan of abortion at all, and I don't think I could ever have one under any circumstance, but as someone else mentioned, that doesn't give me the right to make that choice for someone else. I don't know her life or her circumstances. Does anyone watch Orange Is The New Black??

In the second season…

they go further into the back stories of the women there. Doggett (Pennsatucky), the crazy religious one, with the bad meth teeth, who tried to attack Piper in the 1st season finale, gets her backstory told. It turns out she's there because she killed a nurse at an abortion clinic. Doggett went in for her sixth abortion (not sure why she couldn't just use birth control but okay) and the nurse made the comment that she should have a card "get five, get the next one free". Doggett left and got her shotgun from the car and told her boyfriend the woman disrespected her and then went in to kill her. The anti-abortion people turned her into this martyr for the unborn and turned her entire trial into a farce about her standing up for babies. Anyhow, I suspect that Sara assumes all women who get abortions are exactly like Doggett. In fact, I suspect most anti-abortion people believe that.

But here's what I don't get about these anti-abortion people: they want all abortions to end, claiming they love these babies, but once these babies are born, they don't care about them. They want to end abortion while also slashing programs like subsidized child care and food stamps. These are the same people who vote against health care legislation and vote for abstinence only sex-ed. If they wanted abortion to end so badly, then why wouldn't they want to promote birth control? And if they seriously believe that the pill will cause abortions, then why not promote condoms? Or diaphragms? Or copper IUDs? If they truly believe all these abortions are killing babies, then why aren't they willing to help and support them once they're born?

And just for semantics, I refuse to call anti-abortion people "pro life". People who support a woman's right to choose are not out there promoting death. They're promoting choice. And yes, they're promoting life. No one is out there encouraging abortions. Plus the anti-abortion people aren't even really "pro life", they're pro birth. Because, as state above, they don't care about it once it's born, they just want it born.

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I am pro choice, unless it is an early term termination, I CHOOSE not to abort.

What another woman chooses is none of my business and I have absolutely no right to judge.

My thoughts exactly!!!!

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It does seem strange that so many of the people who want to restrict abortion also want to restrict birth control and do away with the limited safety net that exists.

Obviously that's a generalization, and people don't always fit into neat ideological and political categories. But it definitely does seem to be a majority of the anti- abortion advocates are also against publicly funded resources that would actually be helpful.

The few far-right tea party types that I know are more of the strictly government hands-off type. So they don't want " the taxpayers!!!! Eleventy!!!!" paying for food stamps or birth control or shelters or childcare --- but they also don't want the government restricting abortion or same sex marriage. I'm not quite sure what they want from the government :think: because they sure don't mind their own public sector jobs or disability benefits :roll:

Of course, as noted up thread -- MOST people have a middle ground view on when abortion should be legal. It's really only the extremists who are out there marching.

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It does seem strange that so many of the people who want to restrict abortion also want to restrict birth control and do away with the limited safety net that exists.

Obviously that's a generalization, and people don't always fit into neat ideological and political categories. But it definitely does seem to be a majority of the anti- abortion advocates are also against publicly funded resources that would actually be helpful.

The few far-right tea party types that I know are more of the strictly government hands-off type. So they don't want " the taxpayers!!!! Eleventy!!!!" paying for food stamps or birth control or shelters or childcare --- but they also don't want the government restricting abortion or same sex marriage. I'm not quite sure what they want from the government :think: because they sure don't mind their own public sector jobs or disability benefits :roll:

I see you've met my relatives. :) I call that Those Other People syndrome. The person in question believes that they deserve all the benefits they are receiving, but Those Other People are lazy moochers who need bootstraps. :roll:

Of course, as noted up thread -- MOST people have a middle ground view on when abortion should be legal. It's really only the extremists who are out there marching.

I live in Texas where abortion is currently only available to big city residents and those with the means to fly or drive to an abortion provider. That means I see this issue a little differently than you do.

I am vehemently pro-choice when it comes to abortion. That doesn't mean I personally approve of every single abortion that is performed in this country, nor does any woman need my approval. It means that even when the particular circumstances make me feel queasy inside, I still think that the woman in question is the best one to make that decision.

Wendy Davis caught hell six ways from Sunday for daring to stand up for a woman's right to choose. Here in Texas, any woman that doesn't "know her place" runs the risk of being called an extremist, or some other really vile words that I choose not to write or say out loud.

Our reproductive rights are in jeopardy. I may not always agree with their tactics, but I am glad that those "extremists" are making their voices heard.

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I am pro choice because I am pro allowing others to have control of their own bodies and pro allowing others to make all medical decisions for themselves, with input from their medical practitioner.

Not my body, not my choice.

Until age of independent viability, the 2 are considered one, and the one with the voice and decision is the one using her own body to sustain the other.

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