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Joseph Duggar starts College


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You know what? I couldn't care less about FJ. Sorry, because I know it's everyone's life here. :D LOL, you guys kill me...

Bye then! Have a beautiful life! :D

I get that the Duggerlings aren't academically prepared for PHC and it costs a lot but I'd think if JB was really serious about his kids leading change in this country he'd be willing. I know he is too much of a control freak to let his kids actually learn and get jobs and be independent, but it sucks he won't even prepare them for PHC.

I don't know. I get the feeling that Boob honestly believes the education his children get is more then adequate for things like leading countries. Obviously it's not - I wouldn't trust a Duggarling to lead the way out of a paper bag. But to Boob all that matters is Jesus, no abortions, and no contraceptives. As long as his kids are indoctrinated on those points, that's really all that matters to him and all he thinks is really required for leadership positions.

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You know what? I couldn't care less about FJ. Sorry, because I know it's everyone's life here. :D LOL, you guys kill me...

You do get that the site owner is an actual person, yes?

It isn't a matter of people not being able to read their favorite forum. It's the potential liability issues when someone on this site openly advocates harassment of college students. Which is wrong in and of itself anyway, especially when, short of psychic powers, there was no way to tell that you supposedly didn't mean it.

You goofed with that post. Own it and move on.

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I don't know. I get the feeling that Boob honestly believes the education his children get is more then adequate for things like leading countries. Obviously it's not - I wouldn't trust a Duggarling to lead the way out of a paper bag. But to Boob all that matters is Jesus, no abortions, and no contraceptives. As long as his kids are indoctrinated on those points, that's really all that matters to him and all he thinks is really required for leadership positions.

Absolutely agree 100% with this. To be frank, Jim Bob strikes me as one of those people who sneers at education in part because he has no idea what he's missing. I don't think he could really defend a thesis or debate his way out of the previously referenced paper bag, but how would he know? How often does his authority get challenged? At PHC his kids might actually learn something about those skills and I don't think he would like that too much. I can only imagine what would happen if any of his children tried to debate fundie theology with him. As someone else mentioned. PHC does prepare female graduates for actual careers, even careers in law and politics. Imagine the kids trying to defend that to JB! :wtf:

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I get that the Duggerlings aren't academically prepared for PHC and it costs a lot but I'd think if JB was really serious about his kids leading change in this country he'd be willing. I know he is too much of a control freak to let his kids actually learn and get jobs and be independent, but it sucks he won't even prepare them for PHC.

God's Harvard about PHC is a really interesting and frankly frightening read. Most of the kids are homeschooled and a lot come from very large (Quiverfull?) families. They don't allow dancing or alcohol there but girls are (somewhat) prepared for real jobs and can wear pants. Music is also allowed. There are strong ties between PHC, Home School Legal Defense Association and their doners. ATI is pretty tight with the HSLDA.

To paraphrase Gordon Ramsay, I wouldn't trust the Duggar kids to run a bath. And that's likely by design. If you're actually prepared and educated to be a leader, you have to be able to think for yourself, see the bigger picture, think critically about multiple things, and come up with original ideas that you're willing to compromise to get other people on board. None of those things line up with JB's vision of keeping his little cult under his thumb forever. He wants them educated enough to parrot his talking points and maybe hold down a basic job in one of his shady ventures around Arkansas, but any more than that would get them too far out from under his "umbrella". He doesn't want his kids to be able to function in the real world, because then they'd be free, or at least entertain the notion of freedom. It's why slaves often weren't taught to read or write. It's why women's finishing schools had pretty limited curricula. It's why the Taliban prohibited women from going to school and why Boko Haram intimidates and kidnaps girls who attend school. Education is liberation. Keep a person uneducated, and you can hold power over them.

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You know what? I couldn't care less about FJ. Sorry, because I know it's everyone's life here. :D LOL, you guys kill me...

Oh, time to insult all the "losers who spend all their time here" because you made a comment that drew criticism and later backpedaled to claim you were joking.

Good grief. Defensive, much?

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If I were Joseph Duggar, I would keep very quiet and do nothing to draw any of Jim Bob and Michelle's attention in my direction.

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Peeps, never underestimate the ability of people to doxx, stalk, and troll others; especially when they become desensitized to the idea that the fundies discussed here are real people. Multiple posters from FJ have trolled fundie social media accounts, crashed the Maxwell conferences (yes, I know "crashed" is debatable), and at least one had some sort of weird plan to get onto the Duggar compound that resulted in a legal talking-to. It's stalking, it's not funny, and personally I think there should be zero tolerance of it.

So, that's why the topic is sensitive and why there was this reaction on this thread.

Leave Joseph and his classmates alone. FFS.

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As we've discussed Crown College programs are SUPER thin (basically non-existent). Seems like a HUGE waste of money to me ($13k/year)

Didn't realize that PHC is $40k/year not including dorm. That's crazy. Though I guess that is what "elite" college is running these days.

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Clown seems like a huge waste of money, but at least it means Joe is out of the TTH and at least it means Erin and Tori get some form of education, even if it's not accredited. It's more than the Duggar daughters are getting and at least Erin is using her 'degree' to teach piano. (Which with her talent she could have done without a degree, but at least she got a little bit of life experience going I guess).

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Just had a look at Crown College programs. One would have thought a christian college with religious curses would at least have had a classic curse or a strong biblical curse including hebrew, not only greek. It is one of these christian colleges which upset me a lot : there are only three way to be a good christian, ministry, business and teaching. I would very much like to know how they teach all the biblical stuff about money and wealth as they are quite the contrary of everything businessmen are doing in daily life.

I am deeply christian but I would never send my children to this kind of college. They would not be educated but changed into puppets.

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It's interesting, the positive/negative reviews for Crown on 'rate my professor' are pretty well split, and the ones who have extremely negative reviews seem inclined to refer to the college as a 'joke' and harp on the fact that the credits are not transferable and the school teaches nothing useful aside from scripture. And those are both things related to its unaccredited nature and will be huge obstacles for the school in its goal to become accredited. There was one interesting review that claimed the teacher in question was awesome and anyone who didn't like him must have been from students in the back row goofing off. Regardless of its automatic dismissal toward dissenting opinion, I like the fact that at least there are students sitting in the back being idiots. That's a true college/school experience that a lot of these kids have missed out on, haha.

I also read through the student handbook from 2014/2015 (mostly for selfish reasons, I'm writing a story with a character from a similar upbringing but with an obstinate nature and wondering how he would fare in a school like this. Spoiler alert: not well.) Crown is EXTREMELY restrictive, even compared to other christian schools. Students who even want to get part-time jobs have to get approval, and they can't work anywhere that would make them work Sundays, and they can't work anywhere that would make them sell alcohol (grocery stores) and they can't work in any restaurant that serves alcohol (most), and they can't work in hotels unless they're living off-campus (only allowed for married students or those over 23 years of age). What kind of jobs could these kids possibly get, outside of their campus bookstore or cafe?

And something I found especially peculiar was that chaperones for student dates were clearly described as being married couples (who had been married more than a year), student's parents, or faculty members. So it's not like you can go on a date off-campus with a girl, even with no touching whatsoever, and just have your roommate come along. It's either students with marriage seniority or (if you don't live within 50 miles of the school, as with Joseph) a staff member of some kind. Can you imagine trying to go on a date with your freshman English professor there, making sure you're being appropriate? THAT IS SO WEIRD, GUYS. It seems like a lot of people (especially females) go to this school to meet people outside their immediate circle in the hope of getting married. Because the education this school offers won't be accepted even by most Christian schools, who will expect education degrees from accredited colleges. The degree itself is almost useless outside of IBLP or ATI businesses. So acknowledging that, and the fact that Joseph in particular has gone to ALERT and the like (probably to get some independence and teach himself basic physical discipline that is lacking in the Duggar home), it's interesting that he chose this school. Maybe he IS looking to court. An undergraduate student under 23 is NOT ALLOWED to live outside of the dormitories unless they're living with their own parents, and they're not allowed to live with in the same home as an unrelated, unmarried person of the opposite sex. He's definitely not living with the Bates. He would, as far as the student handbook is concerned, be required to live on-campus with a roommate and be subject to all the other rules that dormitory students have.

I feel bad for him going to a school with such a lack of ability to help him further himself professionally, but I suppose it's a good thing that he's yet again trying to separate from his family as an independent adult. The rules probably don't seem quite so restrictive to a kid raised in this culture in the first place, and he has the opportunity to meet a LOT of new people in different environments. But I wonder what he's studying... somehow I feel the 2-year trade programs will be more helpful to their students in terms of finding employment, but the 4-year programs give him a fuller social experience. I wish we knew more about what he was doing there!

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-snip-I also read through the student handbook from 2014/2015 (mostly for selfish reasons, I'm writing a story with a character from a similar upbringing but with an obstinate nature and wondering how he would fare in a school like this. Spoiler alert: not well.) Crown is EXTREMELY restrictive, even compared to other christian schools. Students who even want to get part-time jobs have to get approval, and they can't work anywhere that would make them work Sundays, and they can't work anywhere that would make them sell alcohol (grocery stores) and they can't work in any restaurant that serves alcohol (most), and they can't work in hotels unless they're living off-campus (only allowed for married students or those over 23 years of age). What kind of jobs could these kids possibly get, outside of their campus bookstore or cafe?

-snip-

Sounds like they have a deal with chick-fil-a.

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Another interesting tidbit from the handbook read through - if a couple decides to get married during the school year without prior approval from Crown, they can get expelled. Even compared to other fundie schools, this one seems extra whack

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Another interesting tidbit from the handbook read through - if a couple decides to get married during the school year without prior approval from Crown, they can get expelled. Even compared to other fundie schools, this one seems extra whack

Is Bob Jones University considered fundie, because that shit is seriously off the wall nuts. At least when I was looking into it about 10 years ago. Also, Liberty University has some bonkers shit going on as well.

OT: I was just poking around on the website, and they spelled "dietary" wrong. Scroll to the last question.

thecrowncollege.com/student-life/qa/

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Is Bob Jones University considered fundie, because that shit is seriously off the wall nuts. At least when I was looking into it about 10 years ago. Also, Liberty University has some bonkers shit going on as well.

OT: I was just poking around on the website, and they spelled "dietary" wrong. Scroll to the last question.

thecrowncollege.com/student-life/qa/

Yes, Bob Jones is fundie, but I haven't heard of any Quiverfull/ATI kids who have gone there. Then again, it is rare to hear of an ATI kid going to *any* college. The Bateseseseses are the only ones I can think of who have sent multiple kids to college.

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Yes, Bob Jones is fundie, but I haven't heard of any Quiverfull/ATI kids who have gone there. Then again, it is rare to hear of an ATI kid going to *any* college. The Bateseseseses are the only ones I can think of who have sent multiple kids to college.

I used to be on the reliant K forums like 10 years ago, and someone drug up a copy of their by-laws. Holy cow, boy did we snark. And a church I went to when I dated my first bf at 15 seemed like a funnel right to Liberty University and tons of other Christian colleges like College of the Ozarks and Southwest Baptist University. I went to a straight up heathen school, but heard tons of stories about what they thought a "normal" college experience was like. [emoji32]

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I know this is not confirmed in any way, but I keep thinking back to that episode of bringing up bates, where a gaggle of Bates kids are asked "will there be any bates/duggar courtships" and several of the older boys respond "Tori hopes there will be." She blushes and refuses to answer. I think it is Joseph who she has/had a crush on, he wanted to start courting her, but the Bates parents said "not unless you have a job or marketable skills" so he started at crown to appease them. Kelly was very insistent of Trace taking a few classes once he graduates, so I can see them pulling the same card for any future SILs.

If that is the case, a courtship could be in the works for them AND joseph gets out of the TTH for a while. Win-win for him.

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Yes, Bob Jones is fundie, but I haven't heard of any Quiverfull/ATI kids who have gone there. Then again, it is rare to hear of an ATI kid going to *any* college. The Bateseseseses are the only ones I can think of who have sent multiple kids to college.

I would think bju would have a lot of quiver full/ati kidd on campus. It's just like home.

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It's interesting, the positive/negative reviews for Crown on 'rate my professor' are pretty well split, and the ones who have extremely negative reviews seem inclined to refer to the college as a 'joke' and harp on the fact that the credits are not transferable and the school teaches nothing useful aside from scripture. And those are both things related to its unaccredited nature and will be huge obstacles for the school in its goal to become accredited. There was one interesting review that claimed the teacher in question was awesome and anyone who didn't like him must have been from students in the back row goofing off. Regardless of its automatic dismissal toward dissenting opinion, I like the fact that at least there are students sitting in the back being idiots. That's a true college/school experience that a lot of these kids have missed out on, haha.

In response to the bolded: is the school actually trying to become accredited with SACS (that would be the standard, regional accreditation group? or with some fundie fake accreditation? Some of the scary fundie places like Liberty University and regent do have ungodly secular accreditation (those are both SACS schools) but a lot seem perfectly happy with Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools (TRACS) accreditation. (Even though, even by fundie standards [baker's guide] TRACS is the least desirable accreditation!: bakersguide.com/faqs/153-faq/accreditation-and-online-degrees/374-what-is-the-best-type-of-accreditation ]

I wish more of these places WOULD get regional accreditation-- I've had several students lamenting that they started at a fundie place and spent a good deal of $$$$ before dropping out and coming to a secular state school--only to find that none of their credit hours transferred. Some of these colleges aren't very honest about transferability of credits.

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I used to be on the reliant K forums like 10 years ago, and someone drug up a copy of their by-laws. Holy cow, boy did we snark. And a church I went to when I dated my first bf at 15 seemed like a funnel right to Liberty University and tons of other Christian colleges like College of the Ozarks and Southwest Baptist University. I went to a straight up heathen school, but heard tons of stories about what they thought a "normal" college experience was like. [emoji32]

What did they think a "normal" college experience was like? Mine was Sodom and Gomorrah-level debauched by fundie standards, maybe a little bit wild by secular standards, and downright tame by my university's standards (I went to a "hippie school").

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I'm not sure who they're trying to get accredited by - the website and student comments I've seen only seem to say that they're working toward it. I suppose if they were going for fundie accreditation it would be easier for them to adjust because the religious bent wouldn't be so glaring. But I looked through their course schedules for the different programs and they are very limited in terms of general education. A couple of them have history (I'm sure revisionist) or math, and one has an American literature class (I'd love to know what books they read in that) but aside from those they're almost all bible classes. It also sounds like the content/teaching is subpar from the student comments on ratemyprofessor. I can't imagine them achieving accreditation, especially any time soon.

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I wish more of these places WOULD get regional accreditation-- I've had several students lamenting that they started at a fundie place and spent a good deal of $$$$ before dropping out and coming to a secular state school--only to find that none of their credit hours transferred. Some of these colleges aren't very honest about transferability of credits.

I don't know if I agree. When credits transfer and the previous school is not very good, students suffer from the lack of preparation. I've had students in advanced classes who couldn't do the work because they were no better prepared than our 100 level students. it may be kinder not to give them credit.

However, I do agre that these unaccredited schools are often less than open about the transferability of their credits. That is truly unfair to students.

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I'm not sure who they're trying to get accredited by - the website and student comments I've seen only seem to say that they're working toward it. I suppose if they were going for fundie accreditation it would be easier for them to adjust because the religious bent wouldn't be so glaring. But I looked through their course schedules for the different programs and they are very limited in terms of general education. A couple of them have history (I'm sure revisionist) or math, and one has an American literature class (I'd love to know what books they read in that) but aside from those they're almost all bible classes. It also sounds like the content/teaching is subpar from the student comments on ratemyprofessor. I can't imagine them achieving accreditation, especially any time soon.

Looking at their faculty list, I can tell you there is NO WAY they are anywhere near SACS accreditation.

thecrowncollege.com/about-crown/faculty-staff/

SACS requires that anyone teaching subject X have 18 graduate course credit hours in subject X (sacscoc.org/pdf/081705/faculty%20credentials.pdf) and they can be reeeeal sticky about that, I know from my own university's re-accreditation process (you have to be re-accredited every 5-10 years depending on various circumstances). You can make a case for individual faculty member who don't quite have that or who are special cases, etc. but normally they're sticklers. So if you have a PhD in history they really don't like it if you're teaching a class labeled Poli Sci, even if it's something like "the history of Politics" or something.

Now look at that faculty list for Crown, and you can see that they have people listed in History and English with no graduate work in history or English whatsoever, maybe a BA in that field but maybe not even that. Maybe they are too cheap to pay people with proper qualifications, I dunno, but a graduate degree in nursing in no way is the right credential to teach English.

I mean, this is very bare minimum stuff. The classes could be full of fundie propaganda but if theyw ere taught by people with the right credentials, they'd probably pass--that's how places like Liberty U get through. (SACS does look at syllabi but they're pretty hands-off about the ideological bent of courses, although I don't know if a completely fake fundie biology course, for ex, would pass muster--they'd probably have to at least cover the basics of evolutionary theory.) And the teachers could be lousy in the classroom--SACS doesn't really have a measure for that, although they do expect the university's departments to show they are monitoring outcomes in some way and working to improve.

tl;dr many of their faculty don't even come close to having the minimum number of graduate hours in the subjects they're teaching' if they're trying for real accreditation as opposed to fake fundie, they're not trying very hard!

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