Stanley family - Fundies have children removed

[NotALoserLikeYou]

The Stanley Family lives in Hot Springs, Arkansas (home of the Seewalds). They are homeschoolers, homebirthers, home garden growers, and self described preppers. The dad is a "former pastor" who has 5 older children and then 9 more with his current wife.

Saw this article on facebook, posted by "Medical Kidnap" which is an interesting site in and of itself.

medicalkidnap.com/2015/01/18/arkansas-takes-away-7-homeschool-children-because-father-had-unapproved-mineral-supplement/

That has an explanation from the mom.

It was also posted by a lot of other sources. This one has a good summary:

arkansasmatters.com/story/d/story/7-children-taken-from-parents-during-search-for-mi/18793/P9S1iYaoUEuIXypDAa_3kQ

HOT SPRINGS, AR - A "miracle" mineral treatment alleged to be a remedy for cancer and aids is at the center of an law enforcement search warrant. The investigation ended in the removal of seven children from their home in Garland County.

The family has cried foul, saying only the father has taken it and it's mostly used for purifying water for their garden.

The substance in question is referred to as "MMS" or Miracle Mineral Solution. The FDA has weighed in on the substance citing serious health concerns reporting that it can turn into a potent bleach and cause nausea, vomiting and diarrhea if taken.

The Stanley family however say it wasn't grounds for the way they were treated during a search Monday (1/12) night that ended with their seven children taken away.

"Policemen here, policemen here," Hal Stanley pointed, standing on his front porch. "Over here, on the side roads full of policemen."

Stanley opened his door Monday afternoon to find a warrant waiting for him and his home surrounded by State and Garland County agents.

"It said we're here to search your house," Stanley explained.

Hal and his wife Michelle were kept outside for hours while officers searched the home with their seven children inside.

Hal said, "If they had asked me if I had MMS, I'd say yes and give it to them."

Hal insists that only he takes the supplement and he uses MMS as a water purifier for his garden.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement

They have a website that has not been updated in over two years:

stanleyfamily.wordpress.com/

run by daughter Madelyn, who goes by Starlie. She has a facebook but its private. She is big into Ron Paul and the tea party. She is 21. Not much on that site. They are into submission and all that. She has another blog but its private.

They have a support facebook page that has a pic "liked" by a Seewald relative, so I am assuming they are acquaintances.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Here is the facebook page:

facebook.com/bringthestanleykidshome?fref=photo

which has some actual pics of the removal.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Ah, when I look at the who shared the article names on the FB, a woman shared it directly from Michael Seewald, meaning he posted it himself.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

And Guinn liked something too.

[mirele]

"Miracle Medical Solution" (or Supplement) is an evil quack medicine of a solution of 28 percent sodium cholorite in water. It's peddled by a guy named Jim Humble. I first heard about it several years ago when I read about what a 15 YO kid did when he was recommended to drink the stuff on Crohn's forum. He did some scientific investigating!

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010 ... mms-bleach (link not broken, it's to the grauniad)

The FDA issued a warning about this stuff back in 2010:

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/Safe ... 220756.htm (government, link not broken)

So did Canada:

http://www.healthycanadians.gc.ca/recal ... 0a-eng.php (government, link not broken)

Dr. David Gorski goes into more detail about MMS and what it's used for. Apparently some parents were using it on their autistic children:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ble ... -ails-you/ (they'd be thrilled to hear we were educating ourselves!)

Now, all that said, what I would like to know is if the parents were giving one or more children MMS. If so, I would think that would be grounds to remove the children.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

"Miracle Medical Solution" (or Supplement) is an evil quack medicine of a solution of 28 percent sodium cholorite in water. It's peddled by a guy named Jim Humble. I first heard about it several years ago when I read about what a 15 YO kid did when he was recommended to drink the stuff on Crohn's forum. He did some scientific investigating!

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010 ... mms-bleach (link not broken, it's to the grauniad)

The FDA issued a warning about this stuff back in 2010:

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/Safe ... 220756.htm (government, link not broken)

So did Canada:

http://www.healthycanadians.gc.ca/recal ... 0a-eng.php (government, link not broken)

Dr. David Gorski goes into more detail about MMS and what it's used for. Apparently some parents were using it on their autistic children:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ble ... -ails-you/ (they'd be thrilled to hear we were educating ourselves!)

Now, all that said, what I would like to know is if the parents were giving one or more children MMS. If so, I would think that would be grounds to remove the children.

The dad specifically says they did not give it to the children. That they mainly used it for garden water purification and that he took it.

MMS is bad stuff, no question. But removing children from a house because it's merely PRESENT there? sounds ridiculous...Again...medicalkidnap is out of control with the one-sided way they report these things, but it seems like situations where parents are into alternative medicine and losing their kids for it are becoming more common and that is not okay.

[mirele]

The dad specifically says they did not give it to the children. That they mainly used it for garden water purification and that he took it.

MMS is bad stuff, no question. But removing children from a house because it's merely PRESENT there? sounds ridiculous...Again...medicalkidnap is out of control with the one-sided way they report these things, but it seems like situations where parents are into alternative medicine and losing their kids for it are becoming more common and that is not okay.

Call me suspicious, but I'm skeptical about dad. It sounds like something you'd say to get people to go away. If there's any indication the children were drinking the stuff, I'd want them out of there. It's not legal to sell for consumption by humans in the USA and the FDA has warned against it. Parents of autistic children latched on to it a few years ago as a "treatment" for their children. Of course, it did not work.

And, for all we know, the MMS may only be the tip of the iceberg. Or there may be nothing there.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Unless there's something else going on in this family, this is absolutely insane!

[NachosFlandersStyle]

It sounds like the product is sometimes labeled as water purifier to get around food safety laws, but the quacks who sell it don't actually advocate using it for that purpose.

Also, the police entered the home on a warrant related to MMS, but we don't know why the children were removed. It could have been for some other reason.

Edited: typo

[eh02]

Something else is up here. Have they given any reason why their home was searched in the first place?

It makes me wonder if he had told someone he was giving it to his children and they were reported. The circumstances are just too weird otherwise. Like someone mentioned, in a fundie circle, I wouldn't be the tiniest bit shocked for a parent to try some weird home "remedy" for autism or behavioral disorders.

Just not buying that there was a totally routine, random fundie home search. There has to be more to the story...

[DGayle]

Something's got to be left out. If the kids were removed with the stuff used only as said, then CPS overstepped the boundaries. But probably a kid had taken it or something. The only side who can talk will want to say that that's the whole story, but I don't believe that.

[Coco]

The sad thing is that it's going to be misused by the far right to incite that group of people to voting for a Republican or Tea Party candidate. (They would already, but this will light a fire under them) Scare tactics. Reporting the story in a way on social media that make it look like everyone should be scared.

The entire story and all the reasons, when they're known, need to be shared. People need to know that they don't have to live in fear. I just wish more stories of how CPS has helped children, saved kids from horrible situations, and turned people's lives around, would be shared. I just wish people who are fearful without cause would take the time to learn WHY kids are removed.

It happened with that viral story about the premature malnourished twins who were removed from that young couple a few months ago. The young couple had a history of involvement with police for domestic struggles. They were not following respectful recommendations. But the posts about it were wailing that it was because of homebirth and breastfeeding. Of course those weren't the reason. Breastfeeding is heavily endorsed by WIC. People need to realize they can't just choose to harm their children or starve their children without others caring enough to try to help them do better. And good parents don't need to worry.

It's like the Amish - they have a very different lifestyle, but they are respected because they do care for their children and they are peaceful.

[eh02]

Holy sht, the reviews for the book about this stuff on amazon...

"I had a cat bite in my right hand from a feral cat. I went to the emergency dept at the hospital. They gave me antibiotics but didn't think that they would help much and to stay in the vicinity of the hospital. Sure enough, my hand turned black. I didn't go back to the hospital (they said they might have to amputate), I took MMS activated with lemon every hour. [[????!!!!!?????]] I also mixed the activated MMS with DMSO (DMSO drives the application under the skin) and put it on my hand every few hours wearing a glove over it with cut off fingertips so I could still work. I did this religiously for 10 days. Reducing the internal MMS and application to every 4 hours. The hand healed up without even leaving a scar! Go to [...] and learn all you can if you have a health problem or better yet BEFORE you have a problem! There is also a yahoo support group that will help with advise."

and one of my favorite oh-so-common claims from the alternative medicine community about every product from essential oils to MMS...

"taken internally, it naturally eradicates all dangerous viruses and germs before they can get a hold on us or even after they get going. "

Really? It eradicates all of the dangerous viruses and bacteria? But let me guess, it's able to magically discriminate the good from bad bacteria? :roll: You're right, that IS a miracle!

And this is why folks like Michelle Duggar shouldn't be your science teacher...

[FJismyheadship]

http://www.arkansasmatters.com/story/d/ ... XypDAa_3kQ

I saw a post on a swap shop about this family, and was confused at first until I read the article above. The family has a page about bringing their kids home. I'm not sure entirely whats going onm but these two links might make something clearer to someoone else?

https://www.facebook.com/bringthestanleykidshome

[Mama Mia]

If it happened like it says it did in the article, then yes, CPS did make a horrible, traumatizing mistake.

The family states the kids never even took that supplement. And if they DID take it, wouldn't a simple warning that it's dangerous and they shouldn't give it to the kids suffice?

It seems to be sold legally. So why on earth would CPS have the right to just haul the kids off. This is much more a situation where if there were concerns the appropriate response would be to develop a plan with the parents, not take the kids away. Unless there is MUCH more going on, which is, of course, possible.

It really bugs me when adult authorities, parents or CPS, don't understand the impact of tearing children away from their surroundings and family. Even if it's for a short time.

[eh02]

This was shared a few threads down, but I'll just say again: I really do not think we're getting the full story. CPS doesn't just randomly stop by to say hi and see how things are going. Someone must have filed a report against them, and it very likely could have been about a parent giving a child MMS. For all we know, it may have not even been the first report. While an adult may be free to take something dangerous and unregulated like that on their own, giving it to a child is a whole different story.

I feel for those poor kids either way. Sad.

[FJismyheadship]

The part that confuses me is that I have had a couple of dealings with Garland County CPS, and a couple of other friends of mine have too. Overall, they seem genuinely interested in keeping families together, and not taking them away except for in the worst circumstances. I had a friend leave her 9 month old in the bathtub by himself for five minutes, and CPS didn't take that baby away. They tried to help her first! Now, after they showed up she never did it again, but they didn't take him away and that is more serious.

They did recently hire two new guys, maybe the wrong social worker was put on the case?

[Mama Mia]

In my experience, brand new CPS workers can sometimes be over-zealous. And they are just like teachers, or cops or anyone in a position of authority. They all have regulations, but a considerable amount of independent decision making power within those regulations. Some of the individuals are amazing, dedicated, fantastic people. Most are somewhere between fair and good. And some are vindictive assholes.

[SoybeanQueen]

In my experience, though, it's not just up to the one social worker. There's a whole team of people involved, and there has to be approval for the actions taken.

I really think there's more to this story than we will hear. CPS doesn't get to tell their side of the story to the press, so it automatically allows the parents total control of how the public perceives the case.

I'll say this - it took four years of reports for my kids to be removed from their birth family. I'm always skeptical when someone claims CPS just showed up and yanked the kids with no warnings or chances to change. My daughter's birth family broke her bones and still didn't have a surprise "take the kids away now" visit.

That isn't to say it never happens. I just think it's incredibly rare.

[SoybeanQueen]

If the kids were thought to be in some sort of danger due to whatever chemical was in the house, what would happen if CPS did not remove the kids and one of them died? Everyone would cry foul about how they didn't do their job to keep those kids safe. CPS can't win, ever, basically.

Just having the plumbing supply line in the house isn't a crime, either, but Hana Alemu died as a result.

[Coco]

In my experience, though, it's not just up to the one social worker. There's a whole team of people involved, and there has to be approval for the actions taken.

I really think there's more to this story than we will hear. CPS doesn't get to tell their side of the story to the press, so it automatically allows the parents total control of how the public perceives the case.

I'll say this - it took four years of reports for my kids to be removed from their birth family. I'm always skeptical when someone claims CPS just showed up and yanked the kids with no warnings or chances to change. My daughter's birth family broke her bones and still didn't have a surprise "take the kids away now" visit.

That isn't to say it never happens. I just think it's incredibly rare.

This comment isn't directed at anyone on FJ, it's just frustrating that the majority of CPS workers are in it to help and that the wrong people with agendas use stories like this with incomplete facts to scare and influence other people and make life even more difficult for social workers trying to save lives. Especially on social media. It's not right.

[Mama Mia]

This comment isn't directed at anyone on FJ, it's just frustrating that the majority of CPS workers are in it to help and that the wrong people with agendas use stories like this with incomplete facts to scare and influence other people and make life even more difficult for social workers trying to save lives. Especially on social media. It's not right.

I agree the vast majority are in it to help. And most work hard in a really incredibly difficult and stressful job. Seeing horrific things nobody wants to see. But just like there are awful cases of abuse where they obviously dropped the ball and should have pulled the kids years prior -- there really are times when some rash/over zealous/power hungry/biased CPS worker pulls kids without valid cause. Yes, they have oversight, and structured decision trees and the goal is to keep families together and all of that -- but it still comes down in large part to how the Social Worker evaluates the situation.

What I don't understand is why people completely get it that sometimes the police abuse their authority, but think it doesn't happen, or it's one in a million, with CPS. I can think of several times CPS workers behaved in a wildly biased manner just in my own professional life off the top of my head. Of course there are hundreds more where they were just fine and did everything right. They are people, like everyone else.

I don't think most cops are bad cops. I don't think most CPS workers are bad Social Workers. But yeah, some people in those professions are crap at their job. Or just happen to let the stress get to them and snap. Or seriously under or over-react to something that personally triggers them. The only difference between them and , say, a department store manager or waitress in the same situation is that it can be life-altering for other people if they suck at their job, or just seriously fu k up for whatever reason.

I have no idea about this particular family situation. They could have been using the kids as professional guinea pigs for this supplement. Or kept them chained in the basement manufacturing it. Who knows. But I don't get why it's okay to point out cop oversteps on social media --But people should shut up about any perceived injustice by CPS? Or, for that matter, vice versa. Cause it seems a lot of people who denounce CPS entirely think all the cops are great all the time. I just don't get it.

I don't know , it's a disconnect to me.

[DGayle]

If the kids were thought to be in some sort of danger due to whatever chemical was in the house, what would happen if CPS did not remove the kids and one of them died? Everyone would cry foul about how they didn't do their job to keep those kids safe. CPS can't win, ever, basically.

Just having the plumbing supply line in the house isn't a crime, either, but Hana Alemu died as a result.

Any kid can be in danger from even normal household chemicals. What if no one takes my kids away and they get into the bleach and die? It's got to be more than just having something in your house that's dangerous, and if you've got it stored wrong, CPS will try helping you with safety.

CPS CAN win, but not by taking away kids just because of a legally-sold chemical. There's more to the story, but we aren't being told.

Remember a couple months ago a couple lost their kids and claimed it was because of breastfeeding? And then it turned out they had a long, long list of domestic violence and other problems, and everyone who originally thought CPS was wrong started saying CPS was right after all?

[Trynn]

I agree with those who think there must be more to this story, not because I think CPS is infallible, but because they had an actual warrant. Judges don't just give those out on a whim, usually.

And also, it just doesn't ring true he way it's written.

[Jana814]

Unless there's something else going on in this family, this is absolutely insane!

Agree!