Stacy: Brady Bunch Kids Had Measles, No Biggie

[FloraDoraDolly]

Every anti-vaxxer should read this heartbreaking essay by author Roald Dahl, who lost his 7-year-old daughter to the measles in 1962:

http://www.vaccineinformation.org/infan ... a-dahl.asp

The Brady Bunch episode was a fictional account of kids getting the measles in the 1960s. What happened to Olivia Dahl was real.

[Terrie]

A friend of mine with young kids told me once that the worst thing she ever had to go through was watching her baby get vaccinated, because she was too young to understand and just cried and cried. And then she said "Thank God, that's the worst I've ever had to go through."

[August]

I'm sorry, not to be rude, but......this makes no sense to me. I have never even heard of an epidemic of shingles. My family has had a few members who have had chickenpox, twice, and three of us have had shingles and my daughter was 8 when she had her first outbreak with shingles. We were told then and it has remained the 'belief' of the medical community that if you have not had chickenpox, you can get chickenpox from someone who has an active outbreak of shingles, but you cannot get shingles from someone who has an outbreak of shingles, nor can you get shingles from someone with chickenpox. What you have shared is foreign to me. Do you have any links to article or such that provide further information? I would be interested in reading it if you do.

I often wonder about the chickenpox vaccine and what affect it will have on 'shingles', long term.

I'd also like to see some confirmation of this. My understanding (not a virologist) is that shingles is an internal thing. The virus sits there in your nerves, waiting for your immune system to slack off, and the moment it does, bam! shingles! Recurrent exposure to circulating virus in the community is actually protective against shingles because it boosts your immunity and the virus in your nerves doesn't get that chance to break out. That's what they're seeing now, the incidence of shingles is increasing because those of us who've had wild type chickenpox and thus have the virus resident in our nerves are not getting the immune boost we got in the past. Maybe your sister doesn't become immune to the virus? This is something that happens, with all viruses.

Polio and the oral vax is a fascinating problem. The oral vaccine confers mucosal immunity, but is live, and you shed live virus into the sewage system. The IPV confers blood immunity, and you don't shed virus. But you can still have your mucosa infected, you just don't get sick. They switch to IPV once the risk of infection from shed virus from the oral vaccine becomes greater than the risk of wild type infection. But, the IPV people can still circulate the virus the OPV people are shedding. I don't see how we're ever going to be able to stop vaccinating, unless everyone gets both OPV and IPV for a while.

[Miggy]

From Wikipedia

Shingles is a viral disease produced by the varicella zoster virus (VZV), the same virus that causes chicken pox. Its symptoms include pain and a blistering rash that occurs along the nerves that contain dormant virus. You can not catch shingles. However, you can catch chicken pox through direct contact with someone who has shingles, by touching the area of the rash. Most people who get shingles are old. It sometimes infects younger people, or people with a weakened immune system. Stress may trigger shingles. The disease starts with tingling, itchiness, or pain on an infected person's skin. After a few days, the disease causes a blistering rash. This rash may be on the trunk or face. The rash grows into small blisters filled with fluid. These blisters dry out and crust over for several days. The rash causes anything from mild itching to extreme pain. The rash stays in one region of the body.

The shingles virus is contagious from person to person only by direct contact. For this reason, persons with shingles are advised to limit contact with those who are not immune to chicken pox, those with increased risk are young children and pregnant women. Contracting chickenpox when one is pregnant can be dangerous to the unborn child.

If people have had chickenpox, they cannot get chickenpox from someone else again. However, it is thought that contact with a shingles patient may trigger a person's own dormant chickenpox virus to become shingles.

So...

# You catch chickenpox the same way as any other virus.

# To get shingles, you must already have had chickenpox and have the dormant virus in your system.

# The vaccine protects you from chicken pox and therefore means you are protected from shingles as well.

There use to be an idea the chicken pox protected you from shingles. Some people still believe this and intentionally infect their children with chickenpox to protect them. Jim Bob talked about this when his kids were sick. This theory was disproved a long time ago.

There are a few people, like me, who for some reason do not retain the chicken pox virus in their system. I can not develop shingles because I do not carry the inactive virus but I can get chicken pox multiple times. I volunteer for medical research because scientists believe this trait may be useful n developing further treatments and vaccines. (My husband is a university lecturer at a medical school so I get volunteered for a lot of studies!)

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I'm sorry, not to be rude, but......this makes no sense to me. I have never even heard of an epidemic of shingles. My family has had a few members who have had chickenpox, twice, and three of us have had shingles and my daughter was 8 when she had her first outbreak with shingles. We were told then and it has remained the 'belief' of the medical community that if you have not had chickenpox, you can get chickenpox from someone who has an active outbreak of shingles, but you cannot get shingles from someone who has an outbreak of shingles, nor can you get shingles from someone with chickenpox. What you have shared is foreign to me. Do you have any links to article or such that provide further information? I would be interested in reading it if you do.

I often wonder about the chickenpox vaccine and what affect it will have on 'shingles', long term.

Honestly, all I know is that this happened. And I know what I've been told about it happening. I'm not a doctor, but I'm someone who lived through this. I can't give you any explanation except what I've been told:

The chicken pox virus is spread through coughing, sneezing, and breathing. People who have had the chicken pox very early in childhood (particularly under a year, like my sister and the friend who needed plastic surgery) tend to be more susceptible to the shingles virus during childhood. One kid on the street was exposed to the chicken pox. Soon, everyone who lived on the street and was present at the time (so this doesn't include my dad who was out of town during the incubation period and then stayed with a friend after he got home because no one knows if he's ever had chicken pox or not), contracted either the chicken pox (like me) or the shingles. This includes parents and children. We were told at the time (and 2 years ago when my grandmother came down with the shingles, her doctor said the same thing) that the shingles virus can be triggered by exposure to the chicken pox virus, particularly if your body's immunity against the virus is either compromised (as in you have a immune disorder, or your immune system is already battling another disease), you were particularly young when you contracted the chicken pox, your immunity to the disease was naturally decreasing (after a certain amount of time, your body stops producing antibodies it doesn't think it needs; hence the need for booster shots), you came in physical contact with people who had the shingles, or the chicken pox strain you were exposed to was a particularly strong one.

[VVV]

I'm sorry, not to be rude, but......this makes no sense to me. I have never even heard of an epidemic of shingles. My family has had a few members who have had chickenpox, twice, and three of us have had shingles and my daughter was 8 when she had her first outbreak with shingles. We were told then and it has remained the 'belief' of the medical community that if you have not had chickenpox, you can get chickenpox from someone who has an active outbreak of shingles, but you cannot get shingles from someone who has an outbreak of shingles, nor can you get shingles from someone with chickenpox. What you have shared is foreign to me. Do you have any links to article or such that provide further information? I would be interested in reading it if you do.

I often wonder about the chickenpox vaccine and what affect it will have on 'shingles', long term.

One of my private music students is homeschooled (by sane parents) and vaccinated, so she got the chickenpox vaccine as a toddler. Her mother told me that they had been part of a homeschool group that had a "chickenpox party" without letting parents know that's what it was, and her daughter (age 8) got shingles from exposure to the live chickenpox virus. Needless to say they are no longer part of that group.

Second hand information, but I do know these people well and they are sane and educated.

[DarkAnts]

I only had chicken pox and was in the hospital for secondary infections. I have ictheyosis so skin infections can be deadly. As an aside, I got most of my sisters friends sick because the pox were discovered the night of her birthday party. I was also the typhoid marry for my class.

I got scarlet fever in college. I survived thanks to modern antibiotics.

[Flyinthesoup]

From Wikipedia

Shingles is a viral disease produced by the varicella zoster virus (VZV), the same virus that causes chicken pox. Its symptoms include pain and a blistering rash that occurs along the nerves that contain dormant virus. You can not catch shingles. However, you can catch chicken pox through direct contact with someone who has shingles, by touching the area of the rash. Most people who get shingles are old. It sometimes infects younger people, or people with a weakened immune system. Stress may trigger shingles. The disease starts with tingling, itchiness, or pain on an infected person's skin. After a few days, the disease causes a blistering rash. This rash may be on the trunk or face. The rash grows into small blisters filled with fluid. These blisters dry out and crust over for several days. The rash causes anything from mild itching to extreme pain. The rash stays in one region of the body.

The shingles virus is contagious from person to person only by direct contact. For this reason, persons with shingles are advised to limit contact with those who are not immune to chicken pox, those with increased risk are young children and pregnant women. Contracting chickenpox when one is pregnant can be dangerous to the unborn child.

If people have had chickenpox, they cannot get chickenpox from someone else again. However, it is thought that contact with a shingles patient may trigger a person's own dormant chickenpox virus to become shingles.

So...

# You catch chickenpox the same way as any other virus.

# To get shingles, you must already have had chickenpox and have the dormant virus in your system.

# The vaccine protects you from chicken pox and therefore means you are protected from shingles as well.

There use to be an idea the chicken pox protected you from shingles. Some people still believe this and intentionally infect their children with chickenpox to protect them. Jim Bob talked about this when his kids were sick. This theory was disproved a long time ago.

There are a few people, like me, who for some reason do not retain the chicken pox virus in their system. I can not develop shingles because I do not carry the inactive virus but I can get chicken pox multiple times. I volunteer for medical research because scientists believe this trait may be useful n developing further treatments and vaccines. (My husband is a university lecturer at a medical school so I get volunteered for a lot of studies!)

This Wiki article is full of wrong information:

-yes, it starts out with the tingling, itchy pain, but it does not always produce the blisters!

-While it was nearly 30 years ago I had my first bout with shingles, I was in my 2nd trimester with my first child and they did not believe my baby was ever at risk, stating my immunity would protect baby, until baby is born...then it's a different story....so unless things have changed, I don't believe that information is correct

-You can get the chickenpox virus more than once. There is a belief that there are different strains. My two children who got it a second time, the first one had a bad case of it the first time, but mild the second time. It was reverse for my 3rd child that had chickenpox, mild case first time, bad case the second time. It was this 3rd child that had shingles when we was about 18 years old.

They still do not know what triggers shingles. It's still guessing. They know it travels the nerve pathways, so it's speculation on the triggers....

Fascinating about your inability to have the inactive virus. Have you had chickenpox many times?

[Flyinthesoup]

Honestly, all I know is that this happened. And I know what I've been told about it happening. I'm not a doctor, but I'm someone who lived through this. I can't give you any explanation except what I've been told:

The chicken pox virus is spread through coughing, sneezing, and breathing. People who have had the chicken pox very early in childhood (particularly under a year, like my sister and the friend who needed plastic surgery) tend to be more susceptible to the shingles virus during childhood. One kid on the street was exposed to the chicken pox. Soon, everyone who lived on the street and was present at the time (so this doesn't include my dad who was out of town during the incubation period and then stayed with a friend after he got home because no one knows if he's ever had chicken pox or not), contracted either the chicken pox (like me) or the shingles. This includes parents and children. We were told at the time (and 2 years ago when my grandmother came down with the shingles, her doctor said the same thing) that the shingles virus can be triggered by exposure to the chicken pox virus, particularly if your body's immunity against the virus is either compromised (as in you have a immune disorder, or your immune system is already battling another disease), you were particularly young when you contracted the chicken pox, your immunity to the disease was naturally decreasing (after a certain amount of time, your body stops producing antibodies it doesn't think it needs; hence the need for booster shots), you came in physical contact with people who had the shingles, or the chicken pox strain you were exposed to was a particularly strong one.

I have long believed you could trigger shingles in people by exposing them to the chickenpox virus, thus why we kept out children away from the grandparents during that time. Different strains of chickenpox is not something that is not spoken about very much. The reason this came up for us is, our 3rd child, when he got chickenpox for the second time and a terrible outbreak of it, it was the first time I had seen the virus inside the lower eyelid and on the tip of the nose. We were told to get him into the doctor immediately for inspection. Why? Because some medical professionals believe that the virus can lead to blindness when it's inside the eyelid. Not every doctors believes this....so, I'm not sure. But, what was explained to us at the time is, you can see the nerve 'pathway' the disease takes. The tip of the nose and inside the eyelid were signs to my doctor the 'nerve pathway' the disease was traveling. He told me at that time, it could easily be a different strain, which then could explain why my son got it a second time....but this is the same kid, who at 18 years old, developed a rotten case of shingles, just 2 weeks have having his wisdom teeth removed (which I suspect was the trigger point).

[August]

Flyinthesoup, the areas on the skin where the blisters appear show which spinal nerve is harboring the virus. Each spinal nerve innervates a paritular area of skin. It's unusual for them to be above the torso, so my doc had to get out her dermatome map to confirm the rash was a dermatome, and therefore shingles. And if they appear onyour eye, you're sent to an opthamologist.

I'm just glad mine wasn't on C5-8. Imagine shingles the whole way down your arm! Or your whole leg!

ETA: this is fun, turns out the vaccine gives you shingles, too.

[Miggy]

This Wiki article is full of wrong information:

-yes, it starts out with the tingling, itchy pain, but it does not always produce the blisters!

-While it was nearly 30 years ago I had my first bout with shingles, I was in my 2nd trimester with my first child and they did not believe my baby was ever at risk, stating my immunity would protect baby, until baby is born...then it's a different story....so unless things have changed, I don't believe that information is correct

-You can get the chickenpox virus more than once. There is a belief that there are different strains. My two children who got it a second time, the first one had a bad case of it the first time, but mild the second time. It was reverse for my 3rd child that had chickenpox, mild case first time, bad case the second time. It was this 3rd child that had shingles when we was about 18 years old.

They still do not know what triggers shingles. It's still guessing. They know it travels the nerve pathways, so it's speculation on the triggers....

Fascinating about your inability to have the inactive virus. Have you had chickenpox many times?

Thank you for those corrections. I know very little about shingles other than what I have read and what the uni researchers say, that you need to have it in your system first. I will trust what you say based on your experience.

I've only had chicken pox twice. (Touch wood) The first time I was 17 and it was typical, childhood chicken pox. The second time, 37, was the sickest I have ever been in my life. It was while in hospital that I was tested and they found I had no antibodies from the previous infection. I had to go back after three months for more tests and they found I still didn't have antibodies nor the inactive firm of the virus. The doctors can't explain why this happens. They have warned me that others in my situation get sicker and sicker with each repeat infection so I'm terrified of catching it again.

[catlady]

Pregnant women who get Rubella run the risk of their child having multiple birth defects.

Measles can lead to a variety of long term disabilities in the people who catch measles.

I always wonder if the anti-vaxxers just think their parents and grandparents were gullible iidiots, or if they recognize that their parents and grandparents took their kids in for vaccinations because they had seen first had the results of these childhood diseases and want to avoid them. I guess we'll have to have a few severe epidemics to reteach us about why people used to be happy to get vaccinations.

I haven't even read the rest of the thread yet, but I have to emphasize the bold above because I can vouch for it: my aunt had rubella while pregnant in 1964. this caused her twin sons to be born 2 months premature, and one died 36 hours later. my surviving cousin is deaf, non-verbal, and developmentally disabled to the point of having the mental capacity of a forgetful 9-year-old. since his mother went to a nursing home last spring, he has been living with me while he is wait-listed for a group home. he goes to a (rather expensive) day-hab program and has a home health aide while Mr. CatLady and I go to work.

just because these diseases were far more common 4+ decades ago doesn't mean they have ever been harmless.

[DogIsMyCoPilot]

Ugh... the stupid... it burns...

[PennySycamore]

I haven't even read the rest of the thread yet, but I have to emphasize the bold above because I can vouch for it: my aunt had rubella while pregnant in 1964. this caused her twin sons to be born 2 months premature, and one died 36 hours later. my surviving cousin is deaf, non-verbal, and developmentally disabled to the point of having the mental capacity of a forgetful 9-year-old. since his mother went to a nursing home last spring, he has been living with me while he is wait-listed for a group home. he goes to a (rather expensive) day-hab program and has a home health aide while Mr. CatLady and I go to work.

just because these diseases were far more common 4+ decades ago doesn't mean they have ever been harmless.

The actress Gene Tierney contracted Rubella from a soldier she served at the Hollywood Canteen during WWII. Gene was pregnant at the time although I can't remember if she knew it nor did the soldier know how sick he was. Gene's daughter, Daria, was born deaf, partially blind and severely disabled. Daria spent most of her life in an institution. Howard Hughes was a good friend of Gene's and he paid for Daria's hospitalization. The stress of having such a severely disabled child didn't help Gene's mental illness either. She was institutionalized several times and attempted suicide once.

[thoughtful]

The actress Gene Tierney contracted Rubella from a soldier she served at the Hollywood Canteen during WWII. Gene was pregnant at the time although I can't remember if she knew it nor did the soldier know how sick he was. Gene's daughter, Daria, was born deaf, partially blind and severely disabled. Daria spent most of her life in an institution. Howard Hughes was a good friend of Gene's and he paid for Daria's hospitalization. The stress of having such a severely disabled child didn't help Gene's mental illness either. She was institutionalized several times and attempted suicide once.

And that incident was then fictionalized in Agatha Christie in The Mirror Crack'd From Side to Side.

I think the fan was a woman in the original incident, as well as the fictionalized version, and knew she was ill:

Sometime afterward, Tierney met a woman who said that she’d gone to the Hollywood Canteen that night despite being in quarantine with rubella. From Tierney’s website:

“Everyone told me I shouldn’t go,†the starstruck woman told Tierney years later at a tennis match, not realizing what she was responsible for, “but I just had to go. You were my favorite.â€

http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-david ... ne-follies

[August]

Antivaxxers on rubella makes me the most white-hot angry of all of them. The fuckers say they won't get their kids vaxxed becauseit's such a mild illness, so little Moonspiral will be perfectly fine if they get it. Andyes,little moonspiral will be perfectly fine, it's not even as bad as the flu, but who gives a shit about the pregnant stranger at the supermarket who cannot form antibodies (it's not all that uncommon to not seroconvert), or who wasn't planning on getting pregnant and hasn't had a booster since she was 13. Of course, precious Moonspiral's few minutes of discomfort is so much more important than that unborn baby's life.

After they introduced the rubella vaccine they had to close lots of deaf/blind schools because there weren't as many deaf/blind kids any more.

Aside from Gallaudet and the National Technical Institute, there are roughly 80 college-degree programs for the deaf, according to the American Annals of the Deaf directory. Dr. Lowell contends that it is especially important to support the local programs that can expand and contract more flexibly with the bulge because students enrolled in them can live at home.

''As the bulge moved through elementary and secondary schools, it left empty classrooms that had been specifically built and staffed for the deaf,'' Dr. Lowell said. He added that if all available financing is now centralized for Gallaudet and the institute in Rochester, much would be spent on building classrooms and dormitories that would stand empty after the bulge has passed through.

[SaturnianCatalina]

My neighbor across the street decided not to get her son vaccinated against MMR because he has autism. I cannot for the life of me understand how that works. Like, I can kind of understand why you'd believe the stupid lie that MMR causes autism (assuming you've never done any research of your own and realized it's been disproved). But, he already HAS autism. What the hell is she afraid of?

She's freaked out by the needles, guaranteed. I think that's the real motivation for a lot of these anti-vax people. Just look at how they've been acting lately about routine Vitamin K injections, which are not in any way a vaccine.

[whoviana]

I remember visiting a preschool classmate as a whole class after she was out of the hospital (where she had spent almost an entire month) after measles made her lungs collapse and screwed up her entire cardiovascular system. It took her months to recover from it and she was as fragile as a wee chicken hatchling.

[whoviana]

She's freaked out by the needles, guaranteed. I think that's the real motivation for a lot of these anti-vax people. Just look at how they've been acting lately about routine Vitamin K injections, which are not in any way a vaccine.

I don't know. Having a fright of needles versus willing to risk to catch nasty and possibly deadly diseases seems outbalanced to me. I strongly believe that it's the conspiracy theories that keep people away from the ebil Pharma.

[Mama Mia]

I think the problem with the anti-vax Brady Bunch narrative is that it misses the point. And I think the pro-vaccination marketing misses the point as well.

I'm just talking about measles here -- but the truth is that before vaccines 90% of U.S. Adults had been infected with the measles virus.

The Brady Bunch version of just a usual annoying childhood disease actually was true for the vast majority of people. In fact some cases were so mild people didn't even know they had it. But what it leaves out , is that in cases where there are complications -- the complications can be very severe and cause life-long disabilities. Notably blindness, deafness and encephalitis. So people who just hear about the old days through sitcoms or stories from their parents or grandparents may have no idea about the severe complications or even death that aren't likely -- but are possible. The vaccine came along when I was Jr. High age ( at least to my area - the article I'm reading says it started earlier) - I recall kids at school getting it. I never did - that I know of. I never heard of any complications -- so if I just went off my experience and what seemed a common view in the media -- I would have no idea it could be so serious. So the Brady Bunch view glosses over that very, very important point....and the reason why vaccines are important.

But I think in trying to get people to vaccinate the media is kind of driving people who are already skeptical away by portraying measles as something that will cause death and disability at much, much higher rates than is actually the case. If you wAtch the news it is portrayed as if it is almost guaranteed that someone who gets the measles will be hospitalized - if they are extremely lucky - but most likely they will be dead or permanently disabled. The hype makes it sound like Ebola. I really think that makes people who aren't vaccinating less likely to consider it. Because it just doesn't sound plausible.

I think it would be much more effective to just give accurate numbers -- "if your child catches the measles there is a chance they could have the following complications --- breathing issues, blindness, hearing loss, encephilitas these complications can cause permanent damage and even death. Most children will only be temporarily ill, but it is an avoidable risk - and your child being vaccinated might protect a child with a weak immune system. There are some risks with any vaccine, however there is 10 times the risk of a serious complication from having the disease as getting the vaccination. ---- with whatever the actual numbers are.

Heres a link to an article that's pretty interesting:

http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/1 ... _1/S1.long

For what it's worth, I'm suspicious as hell of big pharma. But if information is presented in a reasonable way, with actual numbers to back it up, I think most people are more likely to at least consider the possibility of things they might initially be against. On any topic.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

She's freaked out by the needles, guaranteed. I think that's the real motivation for a lot of these anti-vax people. Just look at how they've been acting lately about routine Vitamin K injections, which are not in any way a vaccine.

Her oldest son is 2 years older than her youngest and he's fully vaccinated. And you can be afraid of needles and still get your kid vaccinated. I hate needles but I've taken multiple kids to get their shots/boosters.

[SaturnianCatalina]

Her oldest son is 2 years older than her youngest and he's fully vaccinated. And you can be afraid of needles and still get your kid vaccinated. I hate needles but I've taken multiple kids to get their shots/boosters.

Huh, that's interesting then that her other kid is vaccinated against MMR. Sometimes I really don't understand people's logic (or lack thereof). That makes me wonder if the kid has gotten vaccines other than that one or if she skipped them entirely for him.

Is it just the MMR vaccine that people get freaked out about? I know that's the one that people think causes autism, but then I hear about anti-vax people avoiding all vaccines. (Or any kind of shot at all, like the vitamin K injections.) What's the reasoning as far as you can tell? Admittedly I don't have nearly as much contact with parents of little kids as a lot of people here do, so I very well could be missing something.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Huh, that's interesting then that her other kid is vaccinated against MMR. Sometimes I really don't understand people's logic (or lack thereof). That makes me wonder if the kid has gotten vaccines other than that one or if she skipped them entirely for him.

Is it just the MMR vaccine that people get freaked out about? I know that's the one that people think causes autism, but then I hear about anti-vax people avoiding all vaccines. (Or any kind of shot at all, like the vitamin K injections.) What's the reasoning as far as you can tell? Admittedly I don't have nearly as much contact with parents of little kids as a lot of people here do, so I very well could be missing something.

Her oldest son is still too young for the middle school shots, but he has the rest of them.

Her youngest son never received a single vaccine. She "knew he was different" when he was a baby and so she waited because she heard vaccines cause autism. And then when he was diagnosed with autism, she made sure he never got vaccinated because she didn't want to cause autism. Which. I don't get.

[Mama Mia]

I live in an area with a really high vaccine refusal rate.

This isn't really a big interest of mine, but just concerns I've heard are from people who aren't 100% anti- vaccination like I know some people are.

The reasons I've heard are --- thermisol ( mercury ) which is used as a preservative. I believe because of this they have taken the mercury out of most vaccines - but I think it's pretty recent, and not sure if it's all of them.

-- worry over the greatly increased number of vaccines. That they aren't just for the diseases likely to cause a significant risk of serious complications - but for an increasingly wide range. They worry that the risk of a rare, but possible, vaccine reaction to some of these is greater than the risk of both catching the disease and getting serious complications.

---- schedule. Many people want to space them out, start later and/or have single disease vaccinations at one visit instead of a large number all at once - so if there are reactions, they know what the reactions are to. Delayed immunizations are because they ( or their doctors) feel that the mothers antibodies will protect the baby the first 6 months or so while exclusively breast feeding. I know my doctor told me that with my kids.

So these kinds of people will show up as not vaccinating, or incomplete vaccinations -- but are generally getting most vaccines .

There is also just a general distrust that enough testing and tracking have been done and that the government allows all sorts of dangerous /deadly things and they don't believe that vaccines are any different. They see the pesticides effects on health and drugs that end up causing problems and worry about immunizations. You can see this more with th extreme anti-vaxers, but you get a fair amount of it in general with the people who want to be cautious in which vaccines their kids get, and when.

In my area the people who don't vaccinate at all are generally super crunchy , all organic, vegan

The people who decline some, insist on delayed scheduling etc... Tend to be upper middle class, highly educated, had high powered careers but are now SAHM.

I think part of the issue is that people see these skyrocketing rates in autism, and don't realize that the vast majority of the rise is due to changed definitions. Yes, there has been an actual real increase too, which is something people should be concerned about the cause --- but it's mostly that now kids with Aspergers are identified and included. ( I know all the terms just changed again) this can be true with what people see As a big increase in developmental/behavioral/emotional problems in young children in general. Intervention happens earlier and in much milder cases. But it looks like there are sudden big problems.

[Shirley Blest]

My kids aren't vaccinated.

My brother had a severe reaction to his baby shots. He is a 34 year old infant. Because of the increased risk of brain injury to my children, both their ped and the head of neurology at children's hospital suggested that my kids never be vaccinated. So they aren't.