Consensual incest between teen girl and estranged father

[Cleopatra7]

Seriously, there are about seven billion people in this world and you can't find love outside your own gene pool? There has to be a law against this, if nothing else because she was only sixteen when the "relationship " started:

http://www.salon.com/2015/01/15/a_woman ... ed_father/

(Link not broken because it's Salon).

[DGayle]

Everybody thinks that kids born in incestuous relationships will definitely have genetic problems, but that’s not true. That happens when there’s years of inbreeding, like with the royal family.

Royal families didn't marry parents to their kids! A niece to an uncle, or cousins, but not parents to their kids, and siblings were also not allowed. Anne Boleyn's brother, George, was seen as the worst of her supposed-affairs because they were siblings. That was worse than her supposedly cheating with a lowly commoner musician.

They say, Well, look at King Henry VIII — but he was only a genetic mutant because they had kept it in the family for so long.

No, he wasn't. The "genetic mutant" was Charles II.

The girl thinks she has a great relationship. No. She has abuse. Her father was an adult and should have drawn a line, not literally fucked his kid a few days after seeing her. When her mom finds out, I hope she goes to the DA and gets charges filed. Even in states where consent is under 18, there are age limits on the other partner, and the partner can't be in a position of authority.

The writer can't figure out why anyone should be uncomfortable with that relationship. I know why! Even if they were 26 and her dad's age, or 36 and her dad's age, our society conditions people to believe that parents have some authority over their kids, even as adult. Unless you don't know you're related, there's going to be a power imbalance. So when sex happens, it going to be compared subconsciously to a boss and an entry-level employee, or a 21-year-old teacher's assistant with a 17-year-old student.

Siblings get an EW, but at leas they've usually got equal power.

[DGayle]

From the full interview:

Why didn’t your father try to get in touch with you?

My mom said that he didn’t want to have anything to do with me. But she was very controlling and kept me under Fort Knox–like conditions. She’s had my Facebook password since I’ve had an account. One day, after I got my Facebook privileges back, he added me as a friend. At first, I figured it was my grandpa because they have very similar names. I thought, Maybe Grandpa got techy?

Then I realized it was my dad. I was like, Oh my God, where have you been? I don’t know if I can get close to you. I told him I thought he was dead and asked why it took him so long to contact me. He said he’d been adding me on Facebook but I’d always decline his requests. But that was my mom controlling my account. After we reunited, he showed me emails he’d sent trying to contact me.

If someone keeps deleting your requests, stop sending them! Her dad didn't know she wasn't the person deleting, but he kept at it. Harassment, much?

On the first night he slept on the couch and I slept on the floor, just to make sure that I was okay.

Why was that?

Sleeping in new places makes me very anxious so I asked him to stay with me in case I had one of the terrible nightmares I usually experience. The second night I had him sleep on the couch again and then the third night I fell asleep with him on the floor lying on his chest, in his arms. The fourth night rolled around and we ended up on the floor again. This time we actually cuddled. When he woke up, we were spooning. I didn’t know this at the time but later, after we admitted our feelings, he told me he had had “morning wood†and had gone to fix it.

That sounds so predatory. They had sex the night he had that morning wood.

His parents know and can't wait for their son and their granddaughter to start having kids. What a fucked-up family.

You’re engaged?

I’m planning on a full-on wedding but it won’t be legally registered. And personally, I don’t believe you need a piece of paper to prove that you want to be with the person you love. When you get married, you are signing part of yourself over to somebody. We’ll tell everybody that we got our marriage license, but they don’t have to see it. One of our friends will act as the celebrant

So they're going to start their "marriage" off by deceiving anyone who doesn't know that they can't get a license at all, and that licenses are public anyway. Real mature.

Is that what’s stopping you from telling her now?

Part of me thinks she won’t give a crap and then another part of me thinks she’ll want to hunt us down and get the police to lock us up and throw away the key. She’s very unpredictable, so I just don’t know how she’ll react.

She SHOULD have your statutory-rapist thrown in jail!!

Will you tell your kids that their father is your dad, and their grandfather?

We’ve decided that most likely we won’t. I don’t want to give them any problems.

Grow the fuck up. Neither of you are ready to be in a relationship with anyone. When those kids find out, which they will, they will NEVER trust their mom and grandpa-dad again.

Do you ever call him Dad?

When I need my dad I say, “Hey, Dad, I need you.†And then he’s not going to be my fiancé or my boyfriend, but my father.

:angry-banghead:

Do you ever think about what would happen if you broke up?

I honestly don’t know what I would do. My life would come to a complete standstill; I wouldn’t be happy or confident, and I wouldn’t know how to express myself the way I do when I’m with him. If people found out about this he’d probably get jail time. It’s typically the man who gets arrested when there’s an incest case.

No. No. NO. HE'D be the one going to jail because he's the person with the legal obligation to have stopped this.

Is the large age gap an issue?

I hate immature people, I can’t stand drama, and I want to smack most teens because they act like they are 5. I feel like a 37-year-old trapped in an 18-year-old’s body.

I want to smack that girl. Immature? Isn't fucking stupid? She's planning to deceive and deceive and deceive.

What do you like most about him?

I can go to him with anything and he will listen to me and give me good advice. He helps me fix problems. I love everything about him, but the extreme closeness and the special bond is what I really cherish — most people don’t have that.

Wow. She thinks she and her dad are close and that most people do't have that? What most people don't have is both names on the same birth certificate.

What would you say to people who might think that this is an abusive relationship, that he’s your father and you are still a teenager?

When you are 18 you know what you want. You’re an adult under the law and you’re able to consent. I can take care of myself. I don’t need protection.

Turning 18 doesn't mean you're magically mature. I think that people who say they're 18 now, and when you're 18, you know what you want, are fucking IDIOTIC. You've got a LOT of growing up to do still. The adult age was only lowered so more young men could impulsively sign up to go fight in WWII without their parents' consent. Not a good thing.

It's clear she very immature.

She needs a lot of therapy, and her dad needs a long stint in a federal pen.

[Chowder Head]

On so many levels ew and no. :wtf: I just threw up in my mouth. :ew: :ew: :ew:

[Peas n carrots]

WTH did I just read? Honestly, I have nothing

[Joan of Snarc]

[Arete]

My dinner is about to make a return engagement in my mouth.

I'm going to say it: That man needs killing.

[DaffyDill]

We have had a similar case in Australia that received huge amounts of publicity as the father and daughter couple went on National television AU 60 Minutes) a few years ago to get some cash, tell their side, help people understand...or something.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/fat ... 01721.html

This Romeo and Juliet of the same family tree had a young child together, who was genetically sound IIRC, but had another child 6 or 7 years prior whose genetic defects resulted in her death.

Apparently this Genetic Sexual Attraction, happens more frequently then we realise.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/fe ... 6331192545

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'm not prepared to call a relationship started between a 16 yr old girl and an older man, where that girl had been missing her father and suddenly finds him back in her life, "consensual".

[browncoatslytherin]

i dunno, this particular story...there seems to be either a few discrepancies or just wildly made up portions of the story, if the story itself isn't fabricated...

for instance, there's a HUGE contradiction in how she reconnected with her dad.

So then there was zero contact or word from him?

When I was about 15 he emailed my mom saying he’d like to see me. I vividly remember the moment she told me.

but then, later on...

Why didn’t your father try to get in touch with you?

My mom said that he didn’t want to have anything to do with me. But she was very controlling and kept me under Fort Knox–like conditions. She’s had my Facebook password since I’ve had an account. One day, after I got my Facebook privileges back, he added me as a friend. At first, I figured it was my grandpa because they have very similar names. I thought, Maybe Grandpa got techy?

Then I realized it was my dad. I was like, Oh my God, where have you been? I don’t know if I can get close to you. I told him I thought he was dead and asked why it took him so long to contact me. He said he’d been adding me on Facebook but I’d always decline his requests. But that was my mom controlling my account. After we reunited, he showed me emails he’d sent trying to contact me.

so, he e-mailed her mother asking to get together with her, and her mom told her...but then he added her on fb, she finally added him back after getting control back, and mistook him for her grandpa? and didn't even think he was alive? something doesn't add up there.

and then this little nugget...

Everybody says we are the cutest couple they’ve ever seen. I took him to prom.

BECAUSE OF COURSE THEY DID. OF COURSE THEY DID. seriously, are you fucking kidding me? you're saying that NO ONE noticed the what has to be noticeable age gap? cuz, you know, father and daughter? yeah, pull the other one.

Do you look alike?

I don’t think we do — people really just take us as boyfriend and girlfriend. I guess we have similar bone structures. But he’s dyed his hair and he looks young for his age, so most people think he’s in his 20s.

"20's" is a large age gap that covers TEN YEARS. so...early 20's? mid-20's? late 20's? my bet is he looks older than she thinks he looks.

What would you say to people who might think that this is an abusive relationship, that he’s your father and you are still a teenager?

When you are 18 you know what you want.

ah, but when you started the relationship, you were 16. i can't decide if this is a slip up or just a bratty teenager insisting on what they want. maybe both.

i dunno, it just seems to be a stew of bad tropes, story-wise. conceived on prom night. dad not in the picture. multiple stepdads. crazy mother. experimentation with a girl who was religious. i understand people's lives can be out there - mine has quite a few elements of that, too - but the whole thing reads as bad fiction, to me.

[BrownieMomma]

I have read of similar cases in recent years. Apparently the gap of time not spent together when the child was growing up means no parent/child boundaries exist.

And so we slide a bit further down the slope of tolerance and acceptance.

[browncoatslytherin]

And so we slide a bit further down the slope of tolerance and acceptance.

um, what? i don't think one person here has said that this is acceptable in any way. and if you read the comments on the article and the original interview, it's fairly mixed, but most comments i read were not what i would deem "tolerance" and "acceptance".

[apple1]

I have read of similar cases in recent years.

I haven't.

And so we slide a bit further down the slope of tolerance and acceptance.

Huh????

[tropaka]

I am getting a strong whiff of bs with this one. Just like that story of a mother/daughter relationship that turned up online a few months ago, I sure hope this is a hoax. In reality, I imagine some level of attraction might occur between relatives who meet for the first time as adults, but the knowledge that they're related, especially in a parental way, should've driven at least one of them away in horror at the thought of a sexual relationship.

[browncoatslytherin]

I am getting a strong whiff of bs with this one.

glad i'm not the only one who thinks that. i didn't hear about the mother/daughter relationship hoax, though i imagine i'm better off for being unaware.

[DGayle]

GSA is a real thing, and we know parents sexually abuse kids. I think this story is very possible, even prom. My husband has daddy-daughters dates with the girls. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong going on. When I was a teen, my dad and I had daddy-daughter dates too. Completely proper bonding time. Maybe her school thought of if like that, or he went pretending to chaperone.

This interview reads like someone who is delusional. They've told nobody, yet everyone says they're the cutest couple. "You guys are so sweet together" is more likely, and they're taking that as "cute couple alert!"

I hope someone finds those people and investigates.

[browncoatslytherin]

GSA is a real thing, and we know parents sexually abuse kids. I think this story is very possible, even prom. My husband has daddy-daughters dates with the girls. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong going on. When I was a teen, my dad and I had daddy-daughter dates too. Completely proper bonding time. Maybe her school thought of if like that, or he went pretending to chaperone.

IF this story is true, or at least this part, i really hope that is the case. the dad at least must have some social knowledge to know that it would be creepy to straight-up be his daughter's prom date, not just an escort or chaperone.

This interview reads like someone who is delusional. They've told nobody, yet everyone says they're the cutest couple. "You guys are so sweet together" is more likely, and they're taking that as "cute couple alert!"

yeah, i don't buy it. there's quite a few little contradictory things in the full interview that bug me and make me lean toward it not being true, or at least not fully true.

I hope someone finds those people and investigates.

well, just look for matching tattoos that say "i love my peanut butter" and "i love my jelly" :lol:

of course, surely not too many people have tattoos like that, so if this is true, they just outed themselves prematurely. IF.

[BrownieMomma]

I have read of at least two other cases in recent years. A quick attempt at google search turned up some icky hits so I fast lost interest in trying find any names.

In all the cases of which I've read, they have all occurred between daughter and father and in situations where the daughter grew up without a relationship with the father. When they connected when the daughter was an adult, the relationships became sexual. I believe one even had the daughter pregnant.

What was taboo 20 years ago is a sexual revolution today, trendy and often in the news. Now we will just slide faster into a morass of previously unacceptable relationships and definitions. Says the privileged binary cis.

[browncoatslytherin]

What was taboo 20 years ago is a sexual revolution today, trendy and often in the news. Now we will just slide faster into a morass of previously unacceptable relationships and definitions. Says the privileged binary cis.

again, pretty sure that (1) nobody on this board has ever hinted that this is acceptable in any way aka it is still taboo, and (2) the majority of the comments i read in both articles are either just simply "ew! sick!" or something along those lines, or otherwise framed in a manner that is definitely not indicative that this is considered acceptable.

yes, we do have more reporting on it these days. we have a lot more reporting on a lot more things due to the internet and social media. i don't think that necessarily means it's more prevalent or that it's a revolution or anything, just that it's more easily reported on in the cyber age as compared to the print age.

[shedemei]

What was taboo 20 years ago is a sexual revolution today, trendy and often in the news. Now we will just slide faster into a morass of previously unacceptable relationships and definitions. Says the privileged binary cis.

Can you give an example of one of these taboos?

[Boogalou]

I have read of similar cases in recent years. Apparently the gap of time not spent together when the child was growing up means no parent/child boundaries exist.

And so we slide a bit further down the slope of tolerance and acceptance.

No matter how vaguely you write about these things they still come across as incredibly bigoted. Is that how you intend to present yourself?

[sparkles]

Can you give an example of one of these taboos?

Gee, what could that be, I wonder? :think:

[samurai_sarah]

I have read of at least two other cases in recent years. A quick attempt at google search turned up some icky hits so I fast lost interest in trying find any names.

In all the cases of which I've read, they have all occurred between daughter and father and in situations where the daughter grew up without a relationship with the father. When they connected when the daughter was an adult, the relationships became sexual. I believe one even had the daughter pregnant.

What was taboo 20 years ago is a sexual revolution today, trendy and often in the news. Now we will just slide faster into a morass of previously unacceptable relationships and definitions. Says the privileged binary cis.

To help you with your google searches, try the "Westermarck effect" and "genetic sexual attraction". It may clear up your confusion.

[DGayle]

IF this story is true, or at least this part, i really hope that is the case. the dad at least must have some social knowledge to know that it would be creepy to straight-up be his daughter's prom date, not just an escort or chaperone.

My high school had an age limit of 21 for dates. Older siblings who graduated from the school, and parents also, were welcome as chaperones. A couple kids brought siblings as their dates, but it was only a date in the sense that they planned to go together, like platonic girlfriends.

yeah, i don't buy it. there's quite a few little contradictory things in the full interview that bug me and make me lean toward it not being true, or at least not fully true.

I think maybe in her head it is all true. But the reality probably doesn't match up.

[Palimpsest]

This situation is gross. The father is a sexual predator and the daughter, at 16, is certainly not able to give informed consent given that this is her father. It is statutory rape as well as incest in my opinion.

That said, Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA) is a very real thing and not always father/daughter. I've mostly seen references to it on adoption boards although there are a couple of documentaries out there. Here is one.

My impression - not scientific data at all - from reading adoption fora, is that people acknowledge attraction to siblings they were separated from at birth but not attraction to parents as frequently. Perhaps because it is a bigger taboo? But it certainly happens. Mostly people seem to acknowledge the attraction, deal with it and move on. It seems that it is only the minority who act on it.

I have compassion for those who feel it, and even some (not all) of those who act on it, if they are of an age and mental capacity to give informed consent. The taboo seems to be more nurture than nature, IYKWIM?*

In some ways it is yet another argument against closed adoptions. It could happen more often than we know with the participants completely ignorant of their shared genetics.

As we are Alan Rickman fans here: An Awfully Big Adventure is a good movie.

* ETA: Westermarck effect! That was the hypothetical theory I was trying to remember. Thanks, Samurai_Sarah!