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Dark Matters

Another Gothard brother in trouble

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Grimalkin

How do you like that Duggars? This upsets me to no end. I found out staff at my Mom's assisted living had been stealing from her. They did it very carefully, and stealthy. I think is has been about $600. Over the past six months. Fuck you for taking advantage of elderly people.

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Howl
Is the whole family a bunch of rotten apples?

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/crime/st ... s_44739110

Awesome find, Dark Matters! To answer your question, yes, yes I think they are all a bunch of rotten apples. I'm not a psychiatrist and I don't play one on TV, but my layman's diagnosis is massive social and sexual dysfunction in that family that resulted in raising sons who prey on others--sexual/social/spiritual predators.

I was using the google to try to figure out the total number of Gothard brothers -- there are three at least; anyone know if there are more? Were there any sisters? If so, what has become of them?

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Meh
formergothardite

Anyone know how many siblings there are? You got Bill who scammed people, Steve who scammed people, then this brother who scammed people, and wasn't the father involved with all the stuff that happened in the 80's? This is one very, very dysfunctional family.

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browncoatslytherin
Anyone know how many siblings there are? You got Bill who scammed people, Steve who scammed people, then this brother who scammed people, and wasn't the father involved with all the stuff that happened in the 80's? This is one very, very dysfunctional family.

oh yeah, bill is totally qualified to teach others how to have a well-functioning family :roll:

according to the iblp website, bill is the third of six children. it doesn't mention anything specific, as in how many boys and girls are in the mix. at least we know there were at least three boys, now.

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Johanna25

Reading his father's obit, he had three sisters, Ann, Joan, and Laura, and the 2 brothers. Joan is deceased (Funeral at IBLP Oak Brooke). All three sisters and their husbands appear to have been much involved in his cult.

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salex

To me, this is the kind of thing that happens when people start selling Jesus (or whatever god they are selling) and turn it into a family business. If (and to me it is a big if) the first preacher/jesus seller was/is an believer, eventually something shifts. The person may have always been an Elmer Gantry, or the person may have recognized that God didn't care one bit about any of his/her small or large sins/crimes while preaching the word, so eventually belief either goes or changes so that person believes they are special and the rules don't apply. ANd if the poor saps, aka flock, get something out of it, then no matter what the Jesus seller does, it is ok.

So, the religion becomes culty and the inner circle becomes more dishonest and the family business becomes evermore focused on the cash.

Think of the family dynasties

Oral Roberts... Richard Roberts

Pat Robertson-- Gordon Robertson

Several of Jim and Tammy's offspring

Jimmy Swaggart-- Donnie Swaggart

Jerry Fallwell -- Jonathon Fallwell

Billy Graham-- Franklin and Ruth Graham

Robert Schuller's children and grandchildren....

john Olsteen --- Joel Olsteen

The family business becomes the end goal, and everything else becomes marketing and a scam....

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RosyDaisy

Great find. Sounds like Billy Boy and his brothers are nothing more than criminals who belong in jail.

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Palimpsest
Anyone know how many siblings there are? You got Bill who scammed people, Steve who scammed people, then this brother who scammed people, and wasn't the father involved with all the stuff that happened in the 80's? This is one very, very dysfunctional family.

There are 6 Gothard siblings altogether. The 3 sisters seem to fly under the radar.

To be nitpicky: Steve was (as acknowledged by IBLP) a serial fornicator, molester and sexual harasser but wasn't involved in financial scams (separate from his involvement in IBLP) to my knowledge. I wonder how he has supported himself after his ousting back in 1980. Anyone know?

So David Gothard scammed multiple seniors using his brother Bill's ILBP "ministry" to allay suspicions and gain trust? Color me unsurprised. I'm glad he is being prosecuted.

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Meh
formergothardite

I thought Steve used IBLP money to buy tons of porn and fly around the country for pleasure?

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ILoveJellybeans

I can only blame the parents. If you raise one kid out of many who is a criminal, maybe it was just one of those things that happen, but for the majority of someones kids to be immoral, perverted scam artists, there must be something going on in the home that caused something to happen.

Im glad this guy is being prosecuted, and that he has been to jail in the past too. If only the same could be said for his brother, who should be in jail with him for all the kids he touched over the years.

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Happy
PennySycamore

Ruth Franklin was Biily's wife; Franklin is their thoroughly odious son. Ruth may have been the harsher parent. Once she caught Franklin smoking and she forced him to smoke until he got sick. It may have involved a carton of cigarettes and the trunk of a car, but I'm not sure. Their daughter Anne got married at the age of 18 and, IIRC, Gigi was pretty much in an arranged marriage to some some Swiss evangelical.

The Bakker kids seemed to have faired better. I don't know what Tammy Sue is up to, but their son Jamie is a progressive inner-city minister. He takes after Tammy in his concern for others. Tammy was never one to condemn gays. In fact, she had a talk show with Jim J Bullock who you may know from Too Close For Comfort and The Hollywood Squares.

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Palimpsest
I thought Steve used IBLP money to buy tons of porn and fly around the country for pleasure?

Oh, yes. Steve openly enjoyed the perks of IBLP in it's heyday (Bill was much more careful to hide his enjoyment of the perks) and it took Bill way too long to give him the boot. That's why I wondered how Steve supported himself in the style to which he was accustomed after he was ousted from IBLP. Is he another scammer independent of Bill like David? There is a Steve Gothard on FB who looks around the right age for expert FJ sleuths to look at.

I thought the whole family (parents and all siblings) was supported by Bill, pretty much. Daddy Gothard definitely took an IBLP paycheck and was on the BoD. That David had to start his own scam separate and only vaguely connected to IBLP is interesting.

FormerGothardite, quick question: Way back in the 80s weren't there formal child abuse charges filed against the IBLP reform school camps? This was when judges were openly sending juveniles to Gothard for rehabilitation as an alternative to prison but the camps had a different name then. Or is that my rotten memory playing me false again?

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Palimpsest

^^^^

Thank you so much! I've googled for it before and only got the more recent allegations. That dates to the 90s though and I could have sworn I first saw abuse allegations against Gothard's abuse centers back in the 80s.

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singsingsing

What a shock! :roll: Wake up, Duggars, Bateses, and fellow fundie friends. You can tell a tree by its fruit. The sooner you admit to yourselves that you were taken in by a con-man, the sooner you can shake off all those oppressive and totally unhealthy teachings and start living in a loving, fulfilling, healthy and happy way. You can even stay a Christian, and conservative if that's what you want! I promise!

Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming.

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Coldwinterskies

If I were going to try to be a con artist, I would probably concoct some scam about religion. What better way to get people to shut off their critical thinking skills than to tell them they "Just need to have faith!" and that questioning the cult leader is equivalent to disobeying God?

There are some good people in religion, absolutely - but anyone who doesn't realize that there are also many predatory people in religion who use the cloak of religion to conceal their scams is very naive.

I sincerely believe that Scientology, the LDS church, and Jehovah's Witnesses were all started by conmen (just for different reasons - Scientology and JWs were about making money, while the LDS church seems to have been more about Joseph Smith being a sex addict).

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thoughtful

Aw, we can't be mad -- it's just genetics. Yep, they're all allergic to honesty, poor guys.

On the upside (if there is one), we now know what Bill Gothard would look like if he didn't dye his hair.

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Hilarious
nomoxian
How do you like that Duggars? This upsets me to no end. I found out staff at my Mom's assisted living had been stealing from her. They did it very carefully, and stealthy. I think is has been about $600. Over the past six months. Fuck you for taking advantage of elderly people.

That is horrible. I hope they loose their job and aren't able to work around "vulnerable people" again ...Sorry if that term sounds offensive, but I don't know how else to phrase it (like kids, youth, elderly or other groups deemed to be "at risk" in some way)

When I got my police record check - in two different countries, at different times - I was really surprised at how basic it was. Neither time did they look into whether I had a record elsewhere... I guess the people in your mothers home either didn't do anything like that before, didn't get caught, or just moved to a different state.

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Howl

If I were going to try to be a con artist, I would probably concoct some scam about religion. What better way to get people to shut off their critical thinking skills than to tell them they "Just need to have faith!" and that questioning the cult leader is equivalent to disobeying God?

I think you nailed it! Came across an interesting blog post about the relentless use of analogies in ATI/IBLP literature and how some children exposed only to these materials in home schooling are deficient in higher order critical thinking skills. This was written by a man about his CHILDREN, when he realized that they could not follow even slightly complicated instructions.

And if you are educated completely within the ATI/IBLP paradigm, you know NOT to stray in your thinking.

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roddma
Ruth Franklin was Biily's wife; Franklin is their thoroughly odious son. Ruth may have been the harsher parent. Once she caught Franklin smoking and she forced him to smoke until he got sick. It may have involved a carton of cigarettes and the trunk of a car, but I'm not sure. Their daughter Anne got married at the age of 18 and, IIRC, Gigi was pretty much in an arranged marriage to some some Swiss evangelical.

The Bakker kids seemed to have faired better. I don't know what Tammy Sue is up to, but their son Jamie is a progressive inner-city minister. He takes after Tammy in his concern for others. Tammy was never one to condemn gays. In fact, she had a talk show with Jim J Bullock who you may know from Too Close For Comfort and The Hollywood Squares.

Tammy Faye died in 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Faye_Messner

I never really saw Billy G. as a 'scam' artist in the way the other televangelists were

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silverspoons

I just read through the 85 page compliant against brother Gothard. http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... dsuit.html (not sure if it needs to be broken).

15 years of so many schemes and it seems like a blind eye was turned for years. Since the schemes were in so many states why isn't this a federal case?

Gothard is asking for a full trial by jury. I wonder if anything good will come out.

Also will this be a negative for Rep. Webster? since he is invovled in ATI and in FL.

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FloraKitty35
I just read through the 85 page compliant against brother Gothard. http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... dsuit.html (not sure if it needs to be broken).

15 years of so many schemes and it seems like a blind eye was turned for years. Since the schemes were in so many states why isn't this a federal case?

Gothard is asking for a full trial by jury. I wonder if anything good will come out.

Also will this be a negative for Rep. Webster? since he is invovled in ATI and in FL.

I doubt that Rep. Webster will suffer any fallout from this.

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DGayle
I can only blame the parents. If you raise one kid out of many who is a criminal, maybe it was just one of those things that happen, but for the majority of someones kids to be immoral, perverted scam artists, there must be something going on in the home that caused something to happen.

Im glad this guy is being prosecuted, and that he has been to jail in the past too. If only the same could be said for his brother, who should be in jail with him for all the kids he touched over the years.

I blame the adult scam-artists. Having rotten parents doesn't mean you get off the hook. The Gothard boys still had the ability to make choices, and they chose to break the law.

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ILoveJellybeans

I blame the adult scam-artists. Having rotten parents doesn't mean you get off the hook. The Gothard boys still had the ability to make choices, and they chose to break the law.

I think I put it wrong. Of course I blame the scumbag Gothard brothers too, they are old enough to know better and are doing some really immoral, perverted, awful shit....but what I was trying to say is that it makes me wonder what kind of screwed up things you must do to parent not one, but three horrible kids. Especially because they are too old for the parents to have read To Train Up A Child serial killer.

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