Josh & Anna's evolving standards

[BrownieMomma]

Dang. Jimmy Fallon. This is big news indeed. JB&M would never even want their kids to know Fallon existed.

Huge step for Josh IMO.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Josh's have. Anna is still wearing skirts to go skiing.

Well that's true on the show. But the question is whether that continued off camera as well. I think we will never see a Duggar girl (whether by birth or marriage) wear pants (unless absolutely required to, like when they went skydiving) on the show, regardless of their wardrobe choices off screen. And I imagine the same will go for the Bateses as well. We know Alyssa wears pants now, but I doubt there will be evidence on the show.

[txmommyof4]

Now they can re-think their main beliefs, hopefully.

(But, honestly, I can see Josh slowly fading away from fundamentalism, not Anna. She is way too obsessed with babies.)

I don't think being addicted to babes is enough to keep Anna fundie and popping out kids. Lots of women are baby freaks but use logic to know they have to limit their family size. She just has to realize she won't go to hell for it. Anna seems to really love and appreciate each of her kids and their differences. Michelle only cared about being pregnant and those first few months of nursing a helpless infant. I really think there is a good chance Josh and Anna will stop at number 4 for a very long time and that could be the last one.

[Four is Enough]

Was Anna's instagram pic of Marcus playing with a doll REALLY tagged with a label called "jender rolls"?

Shoot me now.

[HereticHick]

They were at the Big Sandy conference last April. I remember the pregnancy speculation based on pics of Anna and Pris with the kids at a swingset. Anna's top came up a bit, exposing the lower portion of her not-so-firm tummy.

For ATI families, I think attending Big Sandy is a big ol reunion with friends as much as anything else. And remember, Josh and Anna met at Big Sandy, so it has sentimental value to them.

Josh and Anna also went to a totally secular concert last year-- Ricky Scaggs (a bluegrass artist) at the Birchmere Music Hall in Sliver Spring.

Baby steps, I know. But I hope they continue.

[Iamthe20thDuggarKid]

Josh and Anna also went to a totally secular concert last year-- Ricky Scaggs (a bluegrass artist) at the Birchmere Music Hall in Sliver Spring.

I don't know that I'd call Ricky Scaggs "totally secular", FWIW.

[nolongerIFBx]

So I was wading through Josh and Anna Duggar's instagram friends list the other night (stalkerish, I know) and noticed they have started following a wide range of contemporary christian music artists. For example: Matt Redman, Chris Tomlin, Crowder, Lecrae... While this is no big deal to most people, I know the strict guildelines Gothard commands regarding music evaluation, and these artists do not fit the bill. In fact, Gothardism blatantly condemns contemporary christian music, and suggests that ATI families do not expose their children to it, and do not attend churches where such music is played for worship.

I don't know if anybody not raised in IFBX/ATI lifestyle can even understand what a big step it is. It was so drilled into me how horrible "Christian" rock was that I listened to many other genres of music before I ever could listen to even the most innocuous of Christian artists. Probably because pastors preached more on CCM than other genres because they thought it was the most likely music sin that we would fall into.

[Nishi621]

So I was wading through Josh and Anna Duggar's instagram friends list the other night (stalkerish, I know) and noticed they have started following a wide range of contemporary christian music artists. For example: Matt Redman, Chris Tomlin, Crowder, Lecrae... While this is no big deal to most people, I know the strict guildelines Gothard commands regarding music evaluation, and these artists do not fit the bill. In fact, Gothardism blatantly condemns contemporary christian music, and suggests that ATI families do not expose their children to it, and do not attend churches where such music is played for worship.

They have also started following a wider range of contemporary christian preachers who have a far greater emphasis on grace-based teaching: Luis Giglio, Joyce Meyer, Rick Warren. Of course, they still follow a lot of nut-jobs (eg - ray comfort, creation museum) but these are some serious signs of branching out!

And the biggest news of all... wait for it... Josh also follows Jimmy Fallon!!!! Which suggests he watches his TV show!!! That is definitely NOT Duggar-approved viewing. I must say I am surprised he likes Jimmy Fallon enough to actually bother to follow him on instagram, it suggests he must be a proper fan. I can just picture Josh and Anna now sinfully watching his show together on their secret master bedroom TV.

Well, Josh is the headship of his own home and family and thereby can make his own rules and no longer has to follow Daddy's.

I read the Jimmy Fallon thing somewhere else also, good for him! Oh, I also heard he follows LeBron James

[Nishi621]

Well that's true on the show. But the question is whether that continued off camera as well. I think we will never see a Duggar girl (whether by birth or marriage) wear pants (unless absolutely required to, like when they went skydiving) on the show, regardless of their wardrobe choices off screen. And I imagine the same will go for the Bateses as well. We know Alyssa wears pants now, but I doubt there will be evidence on the show.

I think just the fact that Anna feels comfortable enough with her husband to make funny sarcastic comments to him shows a big difference between their marriage and JimBob and Michelle's.

For example, when Ben told them he was going to propose to Jessa and Anna asked "what if she says no?" and Ben replied something to the effect of "no way that will happen", kind of in a cocky tone. Josh said something similar to Anna regarding his proposal to her to which she replied 'well, if I had known that, I would have said no just to mess with you". ZING! loved Anna for that one.

[VelociRapture]

I think just the fact that Anna feels comfortable enough with her husband to make funny sarcastic comments to him shows a big difference between their marriage and JimBob and Michelle's.

For example, when Ben told them he was going to propose to Jessa and Anna asked "what if she says no?" and Ben replied something to the effect of "no way that will happen", kind of in a cocky tone. Josh said something similar to Anna regarding his proposal to her to which she replied 'well, if I had known that, I would have said no just to mess with you". ZING! loved Anna for that one.

I like that Anna feels comfortable joking around with Josh. I know a lot of people dislike him, but I think it shows that he is different (in some ways) from his parents - Michelle most likely wouldn't make a joke to her husband about something like that.

I think all the kids (or most of them) will develop a better sense of humor than their parents. Just looking at the three married couples you can already see some differences. Jessa clearly has no issue speaking her mind to Ben and he doesn't seem to mind that either (which is wonderful). Anna has no trouble poking fun at her husband. Jill and Derick joke around at times too and seem to be growing more and more comfortable with one another.

Each couple (and future couple) is unique from one another. I honestly think that they will all relax standards to a certain extent over time - which ones are relaxed will depend on the couple though.

[Luisainlondon1]

I hope they stay in DC. I think city life is good for Josh AND Anna. They have developed much character since they moved to DC. I doubt they would have gone to a concert if they'd still live in Boob's orbit.

[browncoatslytherin]

I don't know if anybody not raised in IFBX/ATI lifestyle can even understand what a big step it is. It was so drilled into me how horrible "Christian" rock was that I listened to many other genres of music before I ever could listen to even the most innocuous of Christian artists. Probably because pastors preached more on CCM than other genres because they thought it was the most likely music sin that we would fall into.

yes! thisx1000! at 12, i literally had to BEG my parents to let me buy a steven curtis chapman cassette, and i promise i am not misusing the term "literally" in this instance. and, no offense to him, but he's pretty much plain vanilla in the ccm world of music.

[MoonFace]

So I was wading through Josh and Anna Duggar's instagram friends list the other night (stalkerish, I know) and noticed they have started following a wide range of contemporary christian music artists. For example: Matt Redman, Chris Tomlin, Crowder, Lecrae... While this is no big deal to most people, I know the strict guildelines Gothard commands regarding music evaluation, and these artists do not fit the bill. In fact, Gothardism blatantly condemns contemporary christian music, and suggests that ATI families do not expose their children to it, and do not attend churches where such music is played for worship.

They have also started following a wider range of contemporary christian preachers who have a far greater emphasis on grace-based teaching: Luis Giglio, Joyce Meyer, Rick Warren. Of course, they still follow a lot of nut-jobs (eg - ray comfort, creation museum) but these are some serious signs of branching out!

And the biggest news of all... wait for it... Josh also follows Jimmy Fallon!!!! Which suggests he watches his TV show!!! That is definitely NOT Duggar-approved viewing. I must say I am surprised he likes Jimmy Fallon enough to actually bother to follow him on instagram, it suggests he must be a proper fan. I can just picture Josh and Anna now sinfully watching his show together on their secret master bedroom TV.

Oh he's a little devil that Josh!

[socalrules]

As much as I loathe the FRC and everything it represents, maybe some good will come out of it for Josh. The fact that he is watching secular shows, listening to some music with a beat and following more sports than just the Daddy approved Razorbacks, may show that his FRC peers have had some influence on them. I may disagree with their ideology but I don't doubt that the majority of the people at the FRC are living their lives the same as all of us, whether it be movies music or sports. I think Josh may just be realizing that people can have the same conservative political beliefs but also enjoy the same entertainment, books or general lifestyle as liberals. Hell, John Boehner loves his tanning and drinking at bars yet is against gay marriage too.

I do wonder how much of this ideology Josh truly believes or just parrots because that is the way he was raised so he thinks he has to go with it. I would bet that he has not deeply thought about any of the subjects he likes to pontificate on. I do hope that working at the hate group will make him want to start working hard and maybe go to school, in order to provide for his family so as to not to have to depend on his parents or TLC. He has to know the show will one day end and, with it the hate group job, which will force him to "obey" his parents in order to provide for his family. The more opportunities Josh has out in the world, the better chance there is that he his family away from the way he was raised. Who knows, maybe he will one day allow Mac to go away to college and live her dreams since his parents denied him his.

[browncoatslytherin]

As much as I loathe the FRC and everything it represents, maybe some good will come out of it for Josh. The fact that he is watching secular shows, listening to some music with a beat and following more sports than just the Daddy approved Razorbacks, may show that his FRC peers have had some influence on them. I may disagree with their ideology but I don't doubt that the majority of the people at the FRC are living their lives the same as all of us, whether it be movies music or sports. I think Josh may just be realizing that people can have the same conservative political beliefs but also enjoy the same entertainment, books or general lifestyle as liberals. Hell, John Boehner loves his tanning and drinking at bars yet is against gay marriage too.

i hadn't even thought of that before. i'm not sure of the make up of frc employees, but surely they can't all be duggar-level fundies. and just as another example of a conservative, adam baldwin is an actor, has been in such movies as "full metal jacket" and the second predator movie, and he describes himself as a "small government conservative libertarian" and is strongly against gay rights and gay marriage (despite having a gay costar in firefly and serenity - sean maher). hell, i wouldn't be a bit surprised if he donates to the frc. but his life is about as secular as they come, despite his political leanings.

[browncoatslytherin]

I do wonder how much of this ideology Josh truly believes or just parrots because that is the way he was raised so he thinks he has to go with it. I would bet that he has not deeply thought about any of the subjects he likes to pontificate on.

being raised in a fundie lifestyle, critical thinking skills are more or less beaten out of you. you're taught to parrot. coming out of it, i had to examine just about everything i believed, because i realized that i truly didn't have an original opinion on anything. absolute trust in authority was mandated, so any opinions held by people in said authority were pretty much law.

i really hope this continued exposure breaks through the fundie shell and introduces josh to the critical thinking that he's been denied for so many years.

[HarleyQuinn]

I can't see them ever leaving ATI, he probably just follows people like that for work so he's "in touch" with the real world, but hey, I'm happy. Baby steps. lol

[RosyDaisy]

Well, since Gothard resigned, some of his followers could be getting just a little lax or rethinking their beliefs a little bit.

[artdecades]

Was Anna's instagram pic of Marcus playing with a doll REALLY tagged with a label called "jender rolls"?

Shoot me now.

wtffundiefamilies made that tag, not Anna.

[formergothardite]

yes! thisx1000! at 12, i literally had to BEG my parents to let me buy a steven curtis chapman cassette, and i promise i am not misusing the term "literally" in this instance. and, no offense to him, but he's pretty much plain vanilla in the ccm world of music.

I'm still a wee bit bitter about having to get rid of all my Sandy Patty and Twila Paris cassettes.

I think all the Duggar and Bates kids will slowly start moving away from how they were raised. The rate of ATI students who stay with the lifestyle is extremely low.

[snarkykitty]

i hadn't even thought of that before. i'm not sure of the make up of frc employees, but surely they can't all be duggar-level fundies. and just as another example of a conservative, adam baldwin is an actor, has been in such movies as "full metal jacket" and the second predator movie, and he describes himself as a "small government conservative libertarian" and is strongly against gay rights and gay marriage (despite having a gay costar in firefly and serenity - sean maher). hell, i wouldn't be a bit surprised if he donates to the frc. but his life is about as secular as they come, despite his political leanings.

I wonder if he regrets his role in the movie "Threesome"?

www.imdb.com/title/tt0111418/?ref_=nv_sr_1

[browncoatslytherin]

I wonder if he regrets his role in the movie "Threesome"?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111418/?ref_=nv_sr_1

probably very much :P

[Pretzel]

My biggest hope is private Christian school and pre-school for the M-kids. I wouldn't bet money on it but it would really, really impress me. I think Anna is a lot smarter than Jichelle and had she gone to public high school instead of being home schooled I could see her striving for at least a Master's degree and becoming something equally concerned with children as with education, like being a teacher of some kind. I don't doubt the M-kids will get a much better home education* than their aunts and uncles if simply for the reason that Anna has much more resources to draw from.

*Well, given that Anna does NOT strive for 20 kids.

[DGayle]

As much as I loathe the FRC and everything it represents, maybe some good will come out of it for Josh. The fact that he is watching secular shows, listening to some music with a beat and following more sports than just the Daddy approved Razorbacks, may show that his FRC peers have had some influence on them. I may disagree with their ideology but I don't doubt that the majority of the people at the FRC are living their lives the same as all of us, whether it be movies music or sports. I think Josh may just be realizing that people can have the same conservative political beliefs but also enjoy the same entertainment, books or general lifestyle as liberals. Hell, John Boehner loves his tanning and drinking at bars yet is against gay marriage too.

I think it's probably less about other FRC members living lives and more about him seeing how stupid he is in comparison. They got to go to real schools, and there he is, not knowing anything. Mentally, he's in the hole around those people. That probably opened his eyes to how much his education really was lacking, and hopefully he's looking around trying to learn more, and that's exposing him to better things. Maybe his educationally deprived upbringing will backfire, and he'll start to rethink more.

[Alexa]

My biggest hope is private Christian school and pre-school for the M-kids. I wouldn't bet money on it but it would really, really impress me. I think Anna is a lot smarter than Jichelle and had she gone to public high school instead of being home schooled I could see her striving for at least a Master's degree and becoming something equally concerned with children as with education, like being a teacher of some kind. I don't doubt the M-kids will get a much better home education* than their aunts and uncles if simply for the reason that Anna has much more resources to draw from.

*Well, given that Anna does NOT strive for 20 kids.

I so hope Josh and Anna's kids get to go to some sort of school with other children, it would be so good for them and for Anna.

Josh hasn't looked happy in a while, glad he is opening his options up somewhat. Something like Jim Bob letting Jill and Derrick stay in the big house, while he was given a smaller house might have pushed him over the edge and started him questioning what he's always been told. He looked downright resentful on the episode they were cleaning out the house for Jill .

I do wonder how many kids Josh and Anna are going to end up with. Josh looks about 10 years older than he really is and neither one appears to have a ton of energy or stamina. IMO Josh might have a breakdown after a few more kids. I hope he has good life insurance.