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Duggars & "self control"


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mollysmom

Something I don't understand with the Duggars way of thinking....they are all about "self control". Seems to be one of their rehearsed answers when asked about "courting" and refraining from touching, kissing, etc. HOWEVER as soon as they get married, the wife is never supposed to say "no" to her husband when he's "in the mood". Well, that shows NO self control on his part, at all! What's that all about?

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Mela99

They wouldn't know self control if it walked up and slapped them across the faces. They don't believe it exists - men are all sex fiends who can't control it if women are wearing pants, and courtship partners need chaperones because they can't be trusted to control themselves.

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Yeah, if they couldn't even trust Jill and Derrick to go off alone and call his mother at their wedding rehearsal, they have zero concept or expectation of self control. Everything is about sex to these people and (forgive my vulgar terminology in advance) a married woman is a personal cum dump. Period.

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BlackSheep
Yeah, if they couldn't even trust Jill and Derrick to go off alone and call his mother at their wedding rehearsal, they have zero concept or expectation of self control. Everything is about sex to these people and (forgive my vulgar terminology in advance) a married woman is a personal cum dump. Period.

They called his mother shortly before the wedding ceremony, and they did their devotions together around the same time. Chaperoned? You bet. To me, it's beyond ridiculous to think that the children that you raised to believe in God would do something inappropriate while doing their devotions, in a church, right before their wedding. This isn't being conservative... this is being irrational. Being zealous about doing things 'correctly' shifts your focus from God to yourself.

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Marshmallow World

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I cannot comprehend making my children wait until their wedding night to spend alone time with their life partner for THE FIRST TIME. How can you possibly develop rapport with your future spouse if you are constantly being hovered over? How can you have honest conversations with each other with Mommy and Daddy nodding in agreement or scowling? Ugh.

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BlackSheep
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I cannot comprehend making my children wait until their wedding night to spend alone time with their life partner for THE FIRST TIME. How can you possibly develop rapport with your future spouse if you are constantly being hovered over? How can you have honest conversations with each other with Mommy and Daddy nodding in agreement or scowling? Ugh.

I'll never understand it either. All I know is that I'm thankful to have had alone time with the wonderful guy who became my husband. It's important to see how a prospective spouse acts with other people (parents, friends, your server at a restaurant), but it's also important to see how he/she acts when alone with you.

Jesus talked alone with the woman at the well. The result wasn't defrauding. She found salvation.

Fundies need to get over themselves and their legalism.

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Doesn't Gothard define self control as instant obedience to your authority figure or something Orwellian like that? So the man doesn't need to have what any of us would call self control, since his authority (who is conveniently not available for comment, being god and all) has already given him the go ahead to go at it whenever he feels like it.

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Marshmallow World

I'll never understand it either. All I know is that I'm thankful to have had alone time with the wonderful guy who became my husband. It's important to see how a prospective spouse acts with other people (parents, friends, your server at a restaurant), but it's also important to see how he/she acts when alone with you.

Jesus talked alone with the woman at the well. The result wasn't defrauding. She found salvation.

Fundies need to get over themselves and their legalism.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

And totally agree - how someone acts in private and in public can be pretty damn different.

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My understanding is that even Victorians allowed private conversation -- just in view of others. So, a couple could be seen, but not heard.

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Toothfairy

Duggars don't know what the hell that is. Men are sexual beasts who get horny seeing knee. They can't control themselves. I would think men would be offended to be seen this way especially fundie men. If any of the Duggar kids have any freedom they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. Just look at Josh and his eating habits.

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DefrauderDaughter

The women are expected to have all the self control and dress modestly so as not to put a man in to temptation (I grew up fundie lite and we called it "being a stumbling block to your brother in Christ") I'm assuming that if anything innapropriate ever did happen with a Duggar kid while they were still courting/engaged, provided they could get rid of their damn chaperone for five minutes, that most of the blame for that would be on the woman in the relationship.

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HarleyQuinn

I just don't understand how the fundie men could allow themselves to be seen this way. Saying men have no control and women need to dress modestly makes them all sound like possible rapists or something.

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midnitechandra
I just don't understand how the fundie men could allow themselves to be seen this way. Saying men have no control and women need to dress modestly makes them all sound like possible rapists or something.

I agree that it's rather degrading to both the young men and young women. One group is told they have to do everything they can to prevent misconduct of someone else, and the other group is told they have no ability to control themselves...

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Four is Enough

Not just Duggars. Lorken, Cabinet Man, the whole dang group. They keep saying it in different ways: Men are weak, so women must be held back. Men can't control themselves, so women must police the internet. Women must wear frumpers. Women must submit, and do it "with a glance" so that men can always feel in control and dominant. Men can't cook or clean up after themselves, so women must take care of them.

men are weak That is all.

ETA: fundy men, that is.

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uber frau

Just like the fundy God really.

Apart from the fact that fundy God doesn't have a reputation for being completely overcome by lust at the sight of a knee. Other than that they're pretty much the same.

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Fundies aren't about "self control," they're just about CONTROL. And deprivation. They don't for a second think Jill and Derick would be making out in the church during devotions before their wedding. They just want them to know that even if they wanted to, they can't, and that everyone else will make them feel like utter shit if they ever mess up.

I mean, since when do Jim Bob and Michelle have to use self control? They'll dry hump on a minigolf course and take freebies left and right so they can have nice things. Self control is not an issue here. It's a patriarchal, hierarchical system of controlling people below you, plain and simple. Fundies infantilize grown adults so parents can hover over them and control them, and use faith as an excuse to do it.

It's also a show off-y, desperate way to say they are better than other people. "Oh, you kissed before marriage? That's fine for you, but that's not our conviction." If I hear a fundie talk about convictions one more time :angry-banghead:

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midnitechandra
Fundies aren't about "self control," they're just about CONTROL. And deprivation. They don't for a second think Jill and Derick would be making out in the church during devotions before their wedding. They just want them to know that even if they wanted to, they can't, and that everyone else will make them feel like utter shit if they ever mess up.

I mean, since when do Jim Bob and Michelle have to use self control? They'll dry hump on a minigolf course and take freebies left and right so they can have nice things. Self control is not an issue here. It's a patriarchal, hierarchical system of controlling people below you, plain and simple. Fundies infantilize grown adults so parents can hover over them and control them, and use faith as an excuse to do it.

It's also a show off-y, desperate way to say they are better than other people. "Oh, you kissed before marriage? That's fine for you, but that's not our conviction." If I hear a fundie talk about convictions one more time :angry-banghead:

OMG, I know, right! The conviction thing drives me insane....

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SoybeanQueen

Sorry, I didn't understand anything you just said because your collarbone was showing.

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ILoveJellybeans

Their kind of parenting doesn't teach self control. They teach controlling kids so they will never make any decisions for themselves. They teach "obey or else" instead of why they follow the rules they do. This doesn't teach self control, as all they have to hope for is that they have instilled enough fear of God in their children that they will be afraid to disobey the rules once they are too old to spank. It doesn't teach them how to behave well, it teaches them to not get caught because their parents will hit them if they do. This punitive parenting teaches kids to lie and hide things from their parents, instead of the kid who can admit it when they've made a mistake as they know their parents are safe and wont beat them.

They obviously don't trust their kids, which means they are at least somewhat aware that their kids do not have self control. They know that once their kids have the opportunity to do what they want and not get caught, they will.

Just see Josh. He has no self control, therefore nobody could stop him from eating as badly as he does as he isn't under anyones control anymore. This is why its harder for him to keep the weight off-he never learned self control as a kid, so its going to be really hard for him to learn it when he is 26.

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Swamptribe

And yet, they put the men folk in charge of everyone else (patriarchy my friends). You know, the men folk, who can't control themselves when seeing an exposed knee, cleavage or collar bone.

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BlackSheep
And yet, they put the men folk in charge of everyone else (patriarchy my friends). You know, the men folk, who can't control themselves when seeing an exposed knee, cleavage or collar bone.

It truly is amazing that the men can't control themselves, but they can control everyone else.

Maybe the women are expected to watch out for danger to male purity to fill in any spare moments when they aren't having sex, birthing children, raising children, tracking their periods, and taking pregnancy tests. Can't let the women have time to actually think for themselves!

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DuggarsTheEndIsNear

It truly is amazing that the men can't control themselves, but they can control everyone else.

Maybe the women are expected to watch out for danger to male purity to fill in any spare moments when they aren't having sex, birthing children, raising children, tracking their periods, and taking pregnancy tests. Can't let the women have time to actually think for themselves!

If they did, they'd start questioning. And if they question, they might make their kids question. And if their kids question, then what is the whole point of a cult?

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Toothfairy

To have self control, you have to have a self.Perfect obedience is far from self control

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