I just can't dislike Josh.

[txmommyof4]

I know a lot of people seem to absolutely despise Josh, but I just can't. Yes, he works for a dangerous hate group and that frightens me, but what other choice did he really have? He grew up with almost no education or marketable skills. He grew up believing it is his obligation to try and save the world from everything he sees as sin. He had goals, dreaming of being a lawyer, in an environment where his dreams meant nothing. He is now working on kid number 4 and has found that niche where he is applauded for his extremist beliefs and his name. I guess I just see it as, he took the lemons that are his life and made lemonade.

 

I truly feel for every single one of the Duggar kids. Even the annoying ones.

[mollysmom]

Honestly, the only reason I dislike Josh is because he reminds me too much of Jim Bob (cannot stand Jim Bob) I just think them 2 are smug & arrogant & feel entitled & NEED to be the center of attention at all times!! Grrrr.....yeah THAT is what annoys me!!!

[txmommyof4]

I do somewhat agree with that. However, he was taught to feel and act that way. I am holding out hope he will gradually become more humble as he progresses through life as a father and husband in the real world. I already think he has far more respect for Anna as an equal partner than Jim Bob ever felt for Michelle so I think the potential is there.

[mollysmom]

Yeah. Good point. Very true.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I can dislike him easily enough when he actively works toward passing legislature that would eliminate the rights of gay people and the choices women make over their own bodies.

Josh is a product of his upbringing, but it doesn't mean he can't work as an adult toward educating himself on tolerating the beliefs, choices and sexuality of others.

[txmommyof4]

I agree. If he refuses to grow and learn then he is no better than Jim Bob. This is the first time in his life he has ever been in the real world and I really think he and his siblings will at least become more accepting of everyone's rights. I doubt they will ever change their core beliefs but I really do think they will change how they handle those beliefs. Going against what you have always known takes a lot of time and exposure to a different way of life and I think, even with the hate group career, the move to DC will give that to him.

[calimojo]

I know a lot of people seem to absolutely despise Josh, but I just can't. Yes, he works for a dangerous hate group and that frightens me, but what other choice did he really have? He grew up with almost no education or marketable skills. He grew up believing it is his obligation to try and save the world from everything he sees as sin. He had goals, dreaming of being a lawyer, in an environment where his dreams meant nothing. He is now working on kid number 4 and has found that niche where he is applauded for his extremist beliefs and his name. I guess I just see it as, he took the lemons that are his life and made lemonade.

I truly feel for every single one of the Duggar kids. Even the annoying ones.

I think you make some very good points. I think what is hard is that we all pretty much agree that these kids are the products of their extreme environment. So if Josh were 18 or 20, we are likely to give him a pass, but at what point do we begin to see him as his own person?

I really don't know the answer to that? I keep pretending that the Duggar compound is like it's own country and when one of the kids make if off the compound it is like they are living in a foreign country. The kids have been taught from birth that this foreign country is evil and dangerous and while they may enjoy observing it, they mustn't become part of it or they will never be able to return to their home country again. If that were me, I would learn to live within this foreign country and not outwardly judge or be shocked at what I see, but at home I would keep to my own practices, beliefs, etc. If I found a few other people in this foreign land that had the same background as mine, I would associate only with them, except when my job, or just basic survival (Grocery shopping, Going to the doctor, etc) would require that I interact with the other world. I might even become more staunch in my beliefs as a protection from letting in evil influences.

Or, on the other hand, I could begin to see that some of what I was told about this new foreign land is not quite accurate. I could see by interacting with co-workers and neighbors that there could be new ways to do things, or different points of view that might make some sense.

What I find interesting is why Some kids from these fundie homes are able to move out, and begin to spread their wings and come up with their own view points, and others seem to follow along with everything they were taught and never question it.

Since the Duggar family were not public when Josh, Janna, and JD were being raised, we really have no idea how severe they were treated, or not. I don't feel like the younger ones will have the same level of mind and soul control as the older ones. So we don't know how deeply entrenched Josh was, or how broken he may have had to be in order to buy the crap he was being taught.

[Marshmallow World]

I can dislike him easily enough when he actively works toward passing legislature that would eliminate the rights of gay people and the choices women make over their own bodies.

Josh is a product of his upbringing, but it doesn't mean he can't work as an adult toward educating himself on tolerating the beliefs, choices and sexuality of others.

Yeah, his active mission to deny rights to people I love and then turn around and claim he's working for "equality" cements the dislike for me. It's personal. It is hard for me to like someone who uses his family's name to spread discrimination and dangerous stereotypes in the name of "love." Do I feel sorry for him? I do. But I still dislike him.

[antwan]

Did none of you ever reject what you were taught to believe by your parents and/or their social circles? Josh chooses to remain. It's his choice and he most certainly does have one.

Btw, FRC is very much entitled to its beliefs. There definitely have been examples of "hate" within its boundaries, but simply because the council opposes LGBT does not equate with hate. I get that it's the overwhelming consensus here at liberal FJ, but that doesn't make it a fact. The same could be said of anyone who points the finger at FRC, conservative Chistians, etc., -that you are narrow-minded, hate-filled, intolerant, bigoted conservative-phobes. I know this :stir-pot:, but logically, the very mud that is slung at FRC can be slung right back, -little to no tolerance is extended for biblically based beliefs. Attack if you must, but know that the labels stick to YOU, too.

[singsingsing]

Josh has always been one of my least favourite Duggars. Even before I knew about all the shady stuff and considered myself a fan, I just never liked him. But I know where you're coming from, because I actually really like Anna!

[pega127]

Yeah, his active mission to deny rights to people I love and then turn around and claim he's working for "equality" cements the dislike for me. It's personal. It is hard for me to like someone who uses his family's name to spread discrimination and dangerous stereotypes in the name of "love." Do I feel worth for him? I do. But I still dislike him.

In addition; Josh is ignorant and undereducated on every issue, position, bill, law and politician he "supports" and pontificates. Josh is JimBob, Bill Gothard , TLC and FRC's puppet.

[Marshmallow World]

In addition; Josh is ignorant and undereducated on every issue, position, bill, law and politician he "supports" and pontificates. Josh is JimBob, Bill Gothard , TLC and FRC's puppet.

QFT :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think Josh is a totally unlikeable douche, but I do feel sorry for him in a way because his childhood was shit. He has no memory of a time when he was not ignored in favour of a new baby, but what he does remember is the pre-TLC times when he was crammed into a tiny room with all of his brothers, no space to call his own, wearing used clothes and not having enough to eat. He didn't get a good education because homeschooling is hard when youre being taught by someone who is pregnant, nursing a baby, and theres a bunch of pre-schoolers running around. Before TLC, his parents could beat him without them worrying about a cameraman catching it on film and having evidence to report them-there was nobody around to intervene. He was only about seven when Michelle had her laundry room breakdown, and from the sounds of it, it was very chaotic at that time, and with all the chores to do, and caring for a whole bunch of kids with none of them being old enough to help out. Its very easy for her to forget the only somewhat self sufficient kid who is fully potty trained, wipes his own butt and dresses himself. TLC met the Duggars when Josh was a teenager, so he has had more years of misery before they got the money and travel and a decent quality of life. Then he was married off young and uneducated and expected to have loads of kids.

I think he has food issues from his upbringing, and when we first met the Duggars, Josh wanted to be a lawyer, but he never got that dream. He ended up selling cars. I also don't think he is as into the idea of having 19 kids as Anna is, she doesn't know what life with 19 kids is like, but theres nothing he can do about that. If he wanted baby 4 to be the last, or even wished he had stopped at two or three, he believes it would be a sin to do anything to prevent another baby, and so does Anna and everyone he knows. He is sort of screwed, how hard would it be to tell Anna that he wants to stop having kids, as if she did not feel the same way (and there is a big chance she doesn't) she would think he was insane and going to Hell and get the rest of his family to guilt him back into the fold.

[singsingsing]

The one blessing Josh received is that there is no way Anna will ever have 19 kids. He couldn't have known that when he married her: if she were hyper fertile like Michelle, she could be on her sixth by now. She may well still have 10-12, but at least it won't be 20.

[Alexa]

I feel sorry for Josh too. He's married to a woman who is determined to have a dozen kids when it is obvious he would be happy stopping with the 3 they have and he knows he is going to have to support all of them. He also knows what it is like to live in a small house with a ton of people and what it's like to accept charity handouts from the church. He also knows that when the show is over he is in trouble. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

He certainly isn't that likable, but as other posters have said he never had much of a chance. With his limited education and life skills he wasn't going anywhere. He could have gone further from home, but at best he'd be working at Chick Filet or Wal Mart. Ma and Pa Duggar set him and the rest of their kids up to be dependent on them and the church. Not to mention he was married off early and that sealed up any thought of him getting out. The military would have been the best option for him to start a new life, but he was brainwashed against ever joining. None of the adult Duggars have many options to get out. Look at Jana, she appears to be miserable but there is no way she is getting out.

Josh is clearly unhappy, I won't be surprised if after the show he doesn't visit home or communicate with his siblings very often. I also won't be surprised if he tells Anna no more babies after the baby 5 or 6. He looks so done. I can see him getting a secret vasectomy after this baby.

[txmommyof4]

Did none of you ever reject what you were taught to believe by your parents and/or their social circles? Josh chooses to remain.

Of course, people reject their upbringing all the time. However, even under much easier circumstances, it's a very difficult thing to do. I was raised in a very religious, homophobic, borderline racist home. I always knew it was wrong but even after I was grown and had long moved out of my parents home I couldn't come clean to them that I was a liberal atheist.

Based on his education, life experience, and ability to get away from his parents, Josh is much younger than his actual chronological age. He is just now at the point where he is becoming a man in so many ways. The Duggars tried to damn their children to a life of servitude to them but I foresee that failing miserably. Josh may disappoint me and continue too push his hate based agenda, but I just don't think he will.

[HarleyQuinn]

Did none of you ever reject what you were taught to believe by your parents and/or their social circles? Josh chooses to remain. It's his choice and he most certainly does have one.

Btw, FRC is very much entitled to its beliefs. There definitely have been examples of "hate" within its boundaries, but simply because the council opposes LGBT does not equate with hate. I get that it's the overwhelming consensus here at liberal FJ, but that doesn't make it a fact. The same could be said of anyone who points the finger at FRC, conservative Chistians, etc., -that you are narrow-minded, hate-filled, intolerant, bigoted conservative-phobes. I know this :stir-pot:, but logically, the very mud that is slung at FRC can be slung right back, -little to no tolerance is extended for biblically based beliefs. Attack if you must, but know that the labels stick to YOU, too.

Trying to take away a certain group's rights because they are different from you IS hate.

And it's very easy for me to hate Josh. In fact, it barely takes effort.

[FloraKitty35]

Josh is an indoctrinated Fascist. I have no problem disliking him or his beliefs.

[Feberin]

I can't stand Josh's chosen job or his beliefs. But I do feel sorry for him regularly being picked on for his weight. I know he makes poor diet choices (shown in his instagram posts) and doesn't work out BUT I think most of it stems from growing up and not having enough to eat. Plus I feel like people are very quick to give Josh a hard time about things but give his sisters a free pass. Jessa has also demonstrated from her own posts online that she very much agrees with her brother and family politically yet I don't sense people hold that against her the same way they hold it against Josh.

[doggie]

People have told josh and all the duggers how great and godly they are. they now believe it.

[calimojo]

Josh lived the longest with pretty much uncensored mind control through the child training, steep religious indoctrination. And he probably had very little contact with people outside of the cult. The younger kids have numerous outside contacts and experiences. Personally I think it would be more unforgivable if the younger kids never move beyond how they were raised because they have far more opportunities to see other ways of life and viewpoints. Even the older girls have had opportunities that Josh may not have because they have been the "Darlings" of the show. They get much more media attention and if any of the kids have a spin-off, it is more likely to be one of them, than it will be Josh.

I agree that Josh personally isn't very charismatic but I still think he has been given the short end of the stick. He is pushed out of the house just when they start living the good life. He is working for a group that he must realize only hired him because of his name. He can't be so stupid as to think he really earned that job. And his job is probably dependent on the family having some clout. If they fade to obscurity his job prospects will similar to most anyone with a GED education. Kind of unlikely he could support even the 4 kids he has on that money, let alone 5 or more.

[Walking Cat Bed]

I'm not a fan of Josh. He continues to follow (and perpetuate) his parents' beliefs, after several years of living outside of the home. He has had a chance to live in the world and experience a new life, and it doesn't look like he's tried to see the world from any perspective but the one he was told to have.

Maybe when the show is over, he'll feel more freedom to explore his beliefs and will take the opportunity to do so. Maybe. I'd respect him more if he at least tried to learn about the world around him.

I have more empathy for the kidults who haven't been given the chance to see anything beyond what JB&M allow them to see (and don't really have the freedom -- physical or mental -- to pursue knowledge beyond what they're allowed). Josh, less so.

[Seven]

He is an ignorant fool puppet who I find easy to hate. I find that his wife is goofy, his kids are brats, and he will only grow more extreme while being pulled by the powers that be. He hasn't had to work for anything and has never been in the real world, yet he wants to preach to me about what makes a good marriage, how to raise my kids, what to believe.

[txmommyof4]

I'm not a fan of Josh. He continues to follow (and perpetuate) his parents' beliefs, after several years of living outside of the home. He has had a chance to live in the world and experience a new life, and it doesn't look like he's tried to see the world from any perspective but the one he was told to have.

Maybe when the show is over, he'll feel more freedom to explore his beliefs and will take the opportunity to do so. Maybe. I'd respect him more if he at least tried to learn about the world around him.

I have more empathy for the kidults who haven't been given the chance to see anything beyond what JB&M allow them to see (and don't really have the freedom -- physical or mental -- to pursue knowledge beyond what they're allowed). Josh, less so.

Josh really hasn't lived outside the control of Jim Bob for very long. I believe he was still 100% under his father's thumb until he left Arkansas. Right now, in DC, is his first time ever in the world.

[singsingsing]

He is an ignorant fool puppet who I find easy to hate. I find that his wife is goofy, his kids are brats, and he will only grow more extreme while being pulled by the powers that be. He hasn't had to work for anything and has never been in the real world, yet he wants to preach to me about what makes a good marriage, how to raise my kids, what to believe.

I would love to know why you think his kids are brats. The rest I won't dispute, but I've never seen them acting any brattier than the normal child. Mackynzie and Michael both seem bright and well behaved (Marcus is kind of too young to tell).