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Another gem from Fisheaters....


FaustianSlip

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But they don't have an anti-Semitism problem. Nope! Bolding is mine.

What a load of bollocks all this madness is. It's such a ridiculous idea that the Jewish experience in WWII should have any effect whatsoever on revelation, on Church teaching, on theology, or anything like these things. And it's especially repulsive when you stop to think that in that same era, many more millions of Christians were being slaughtered by Communists (Jewish-led, by the way) -- the very group Hitler was first concerned with and tried to stop (and rightfully so). (Yes, yes I did just dare to say Hitler did one right thing. And he loved dogs, too. Apparently he was a malevolent human being who, like everyone else, did some good things and some bad things (well, lots of bad things in his case) and was not a demon.)

From here:

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=3466999.0

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But they don't have an anti-Semitism problem. Nope! Bolding is mine.

From here:

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=3466999.0

Three words: Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact

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Hardcore traditional Catholics who range from sedevacantists declaring Vatican II and John Paul whatever-number a heretic to ones who secretly believe that but don't say it because forum rules prohibit it.

Trad 101: fisheaters.com/traditionalcatholicism.html

Rules on how to discuss Judaism and other cults: fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=1325777.0

Massive library of resources: fisheaters.com/forcatholics.html

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For reasons that remain somewhat unclear to me, there seems to be a major current of anti-Semitism that runs through traditionalist Catholic circles. I have to say that the day I discovered Fisheaters was the day Mel Gibson's anti-Semitic outbursts started making a lot more sense (particularly in light of the fact that his father is a rabid sedevacantist and a Holocaust denier to boot). That guy probably never had a chance.

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For reasons that remain somewhat unclear to me, there seems to be a major current of anti-Semitism that runs through traditionalist Catholic circles. I have to say that the day I discovered Fisheaters was the day Mel Gibson's anti-Semitic outbursts started making a lot more sense (particularly in light of the fact that his father is a rabid sedevacantist and a Holocaust denier to boot). That guy probably never had a chance.

Plenty of us had parents with hateful or otherwise terrible beliefs that we now just make fun of here. He's not a homeschooled kid who doesn't know better. He's a grown ass man who has to face the consequences of his actions.

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But they don't have an anti-Semitism problem. Nope! Bolding is mine.

From here:

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=3466999.0

Oh no she di'int.

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Well yes, there were some good things Hitler did for Germany. (Road construction) That doesn't mean the man wasn't still a monster. I don't care that some group over there (Stalin) might've killed more people, genocide is GENOCIDE.

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For reasons that remain somewhat unclear to me, there seems to be a major current of anti-Semitism that runs through traditionalist Catholic circles. I have to say that the day I discovered Fisheaters was the day Mel Gibson's anti-Semitic outbursts started making a lot more sense (particularly in light of the fact that his father is a rabid sedevacantist and a Holocaust denier to boot). That guy probably never had a chance.

The hardcore anti-semitism one sees in the Catholic traditionalist subculture stems from a reaction to Vatican II formally proclaiming that the Jewish people were innocent of deicide. See especially this quote from the document "Nostrae Aetate":

"True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ. Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone."

The trads are correct in pointing out what a major reversal this was in terms of what the Catholic church had proclaimed before. However, in light of the Holocaust, the status quo couldn't continue on anymore. To me, the posters at Fisheaters sound like the usual fundies playing the victim combined with some nasty conspiracy-mongering about "Jews, freemasons, and communists" (apparently, they didn't get the memo that the Cold War is over and that freemasonry in the North American context is just a secret clubhouse for old men who like weird handshakes and funny robes).

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The trads are correct in pointing out what a major reversal this was in terms of what the Catholic church had proclaimed before. However, in light of the Holocaust, the status quo couldn't continue on anymore. To me, the posters at Fisheaters sound like the usual fundies playing the victim combined with some nasty conspiracy-mongering about "Jews, freemasons, and communists" (apparently, they didn't get the memo that the Cold War is over and that freemasonry in the North American context is just a secret clubhouse for old men who like weird handshakes and funny robes).

I'm sure they'd be amazed (and likely frankly disbelieving) if someone let them know that participation in the Freemasons was banned in Communist Russia. They had to go underground.

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Dafuq? Did that idiot really just try defending Hitler in a roundabout way and may Christians seem persecuted? Where are the hidden cameras to capture our reactions?

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These forum rules make my head hurt:

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=1325777.0

So this guy is saying that he believes in the Illuminati, conspiracy theories, etc. but doesn't want others to think that this is a site for nutbars so he's advising restraint?

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Sadly, I am not surprised. I've seen first hand the antisemitism within the Catholic community. My great granny was a fervent Catholic and she said some pretty awful things about Jewish people in private. :shock:

Thank goodness the rest of my family leaned more towards liberal Catholicism!

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Plenty of us had parents with hateful or otherwise terrible beliefs that we now just make fun of here. He's not a homeschooled kid who doesn't know better. He's a grown ass man who has to face the consequences of his actions.

You can feel free to dial back the righteous indignation there just a tad. I don't actually disagree with you, which is why Mel Gibson stopped getting my money or my time years ago. But the stuff you run across on places like Fisheaters, coupled with a couple of his father's lunatic rants I happened upon back when Gibson first started going off the rails certainly makes it seem less random and bizarre than it initially appeared and gives it all some context. I'm not excusing it, not least because I'm Jewish (and believe you me, causing all the wars in the world is really hard work!), along with the fact that whatever the source of his anti-Semitism problem, there's also the homophobia, abusive relationship, et cetera, et cetera. I'm certainly not suggesting that anyone run right out to buy his films or encourage Hollywood to start making his movies and giving him work again.

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These forum rules make my head hurt:

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=1325777.0

So this guy is saying that he believes in the Illuminati, conspiracy theories, etc. but doesn't want others to think that this is a site for nutbars so he's advising restraint?

Basically. Although I believe the person running the site is female. There was some huge scandal a while back in which she and her husband at the time got divorced, or said they were going to separate and live with other people, or something. People lost their damn minds (although in that, I don't entirely blame them, since the whole thing was the height of hypocrisy).

I expect that she gives the whole Illuminati/International Zionist Conspiracy™ stuff at least some credence, but she's afraid of people doing exactly what we're doing here, so she doesn't want that stuff discussed publicly. Conspiracy theories and traditionalist Catholicism seem to go hand in hand a lot of the time, for whatever reason. It says a lot about just how clueless and out of touch with reality she is, IMHO, that she appears to think that what she did post was somehow sanitized enough to provide any kind of cover from accusations of anti-Semitism and/or a really, really poor impression of the trad community should someone not already inculcated in that belief system stumble upon it.

Talk about completely crippling your ability to evangelize and win converts....

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The hardcore anti-semitism one sees in the Catholic traditionalist subculture stems from a reaction to Vatican II formally proclaiming that the Jewish people were innocent of deicide.

The thing is, the deicide accusations and subsequent anti-Semitism have always struck me as completely idiotic, because without Jesus' death, there's no atonement for sin, no Christianity and certainly no Catholic church. If someone genuinely believes that Jesus' death is the only thing that saved them from burning in eternal hellfire, you'd think they'd thank whoever it was they decided to blame for the crucifixion, since without it, they're spending eternity in the Lake of Fire.

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Also, the Jews might've been the catalyst to make it happen, but hey weren't actually allowed to perform executions back in the day. The Jews did not crucify Jesus, the Romans did.

Where is the hatred for the Romans, then?

It just does not make logical sense.

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These forum rules make my head hurt:

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=1325777.0

So this guy is saying that he believes in the Illuminati, conspiracy theories, etc. but doesn't want others to think that this is a site for nutbars so he's advising restraint?

Vox is a woman. And yes.

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Basically. Although I believe the person running the site is female. There was some huge scandal a while back in which she and her husband at the time got divorced, or said they were going to separate and live with other people, or something. People lost their damn minds (although in that, I don't entirely blame them, since the whole thing was the height of hypocrisy).

That was epic, involving: 1) non-anulled Catholics civilly marrying each other; 2) a fake poster who faked her death; 3) Quis (husband involved) suspected of having an affair with the fake poster; and 4) Quis (who was also an admin) locked Vox out and started posting as her. I came across it a year or so ago and spent some time in a crazy rabbithole.

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=1958895.0

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=3442135.0

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That was epic, involving: 1) non-anulled Catholics civilly marrying each other; 2) a fake poster who faked her death; 3) Quis (husband involved) suspected of having an affair with the fake poster; and 4) Quis (who was also an admin) locked Vox out and started posting as her. I came across it a year or so ago and spent some time in a crazy rabbithole.

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=1958895.0

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=3442135.0

oh lord, prep the ferrets for me!

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Well that was a shockingly in-depth rabbit warren! I lost a few hours yesterday to it. I think I'll try to steer clear, though; I need a new fundie obsession like I need a hole in the head at this point. :)

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That was epic, involving: 1) non-anulled Catholics civilly marrying each other; 2) a fake poster who faked her death; 3) Quis (husband involved) suspected of having an affair with the fake poster; and 4) Quis (who was also an admin) locked Vox out and started posting as her. I came across it a year or so ago and spent some time in a crazy rabbithole.

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=1958895.0

fisheaters.com/forums/index.php?topic=3442135.0

Ah, yes, the fake deathbed conversion! I had kind of forgotten about that, but now I remember it vividly. I read through those threads a year or so ago myself and remember thinking as I was reading how completely obvious it was that this woman was either trolling everyone or didn't exist at all. The whole thing with her suddenly converting, then winding up in the hospital, then the deathbed vigils.... It was just absurd. I still can't believe that no one figured out that it was all a lie.

It boggles my mind that Vox still has the site at all, after all of that drama, but probably nothing should surprise me anymore.

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Oh, and here's the link to another Catholic forum where shit really hit the fan after the civil marriage announcement, for those who want to go deeper in the rabbit hole.

cathinfo.com/catholic.php/FishEaters-Insanity-2

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