NYT on Scamaritan

[Emme]

Is Scamaritan the one that sends out news letters detailing what members have had done? I remember reading about some poor kid getting their cystic acne checked, and another man's prostate exam...The entire thing was awkward...

[moreorlessnu]

Is Scamaritan the one that sends out news letters detailing what members have had done? I remember reading about some poor kid getting their cystic acne checked, and another man's prostate exam...The entire thing was awkward...

Can you imagine if some "holier than thou" cheats on his wife and she gets an STD? Oh, the horror....

[shedemei]

Would they actually cover an STD? Even for a woman who got it from a cheating husband? I doubt it.

[ViolaSebastian]

Would they actually cover an STD? Even for a woman who got it from a cheating husband? I doubt it.

They only cover it if the STD was contracted "innocently", by which I think they mean through a blood transfusion.

[Buzzard]

Whenthey say your bills are paid by others sending their premiums to you, does that mean you incur the dreaded debt until they're paid off? Are there no financial reserves? Half a dozen cancer diagnoses in the same month would really stretch a system like that.

And,if the check comes straight to you, how is that counted for tax, a gift? And are the payers told what it's for? What if they decide your diabetes is your own fault for being fat and refuse to pay?

They are very careful to say MANY times that you are responsible for your bills and there is no guarantee they will pay. A hospital won't withhold lifesaving care for lack of payment but you sure as hell won't get optional surgery, like cosmetics after a car accident, if you are behind.

The payments should be treated as gifts, well below the cap so as not to be taxable. Your bank may hate you for depositing 200k in $400 increments.

[JMarie]

Here's the original article, with comments. Surprisingly, they're mostly negative (I thought they'd be of the "they're such a G-dly couple" type)

www.texastribune.org/2014/12/26/health- ... /comments/

[HereticHick]

Better hope you don't get herpes from being raped.

Well. The name of the day is Anne. So many dumb Annes this week. Also? FUCK YOU for thinking Christians are the ones who have it sooooo tough when your religion is the one that controls the goddamned country!! Get back to me when this country moves forward enough to have a menorah next to the tree in the White House!!

I think you are misinterpreting Ms. Dunkelberg's use of the word "targeted". And there is a menorah next to the White House tree. It's called the National Menorah. Its been there every year since 1979, and is lit by the President every year.

[SnazzyNazzy]

$250k lifetime cap? The young couple featured in the article better pray hard to their God there isn't a major medical crisis in their life. That $250k cap can be met pretty fast in many emergencies.

You aren't kidding. My 10yo had emergency neurosurgery when he was 2.5yo (with a week stay in the neuro ICU), and that came to $125,000. That's not counting the 2 ER trips that had 4 xrays and a MRI of his head/neck/spine with sedation. The ambulance trip from that hospital to the children's hospital. Also not counting the post-op complication Neuro ICU stay of two days, and another MRI with sedation. Oh and the 3 years of intense PT/OT/ST which was about $10k a year.

My ass still clenches when I think of the cost. Thankfully we had an HMO, so out of all of that, we only had to pay $220, which was the ER room co-pays.

[SunnyAndrsn]

Extremely fast. That seems like such an irresponsible way to live, using Scamaritan. What happens at the cap? They're on their own to pay? Love how the article ends with routine blood work on an infant not being covered...

So routine PKU and bilirubin checks on newborns are not covered? I suppose for the PKU they'd claim religious exemption. Around these parts the only ones who do that are the Amish. Even JW's do the PKU testing. The paper that they do the blood sampling on for PKU testing is over $100.

Immunizations are not usually an issue for cost, can't you get those for free through Public Health?

[Terrie]

There's an underlying arrogance to these things which just bugs me. No only the judgement inherent is what is an is not covered, but the idea that their faith will help keep them from disaster. It's new agey "the power of positive thinking" with a Jesus coating.

[JHeathen]

There's an underlying arrogance to these things which just bugs me. No only the judgement inherent is what is an is not covered, but the idea that their faith will help keep them from disaster. It's new agey "the power of positive thinking" with a Jesus coating.

Along with a little "we're better than/different from the unwashed masses and we need a special program for us devout people."

[chaotic life]

You can get PKU done at the health dept as well, and most current tests don't require the follow up test so the charge was likely rolled into the birth charges.

[Peas n carrots]

According to the article, it's a cap PER MEDICAL CONDITION, not a lifetime cap for everything. So each of Melanie's pregnancies would be considered a separate condition. It's still inadequate plan as far as I'm concerned and you could still run through that amount in the blink of an eye, but at least the cap is a bit more reasonable.

Thanks for the clarification. Still as you said $250k per condition is still not enough. There are many things or conditions that could occur that would blow through the cap very quickly. Terrifying thought....

[chaotic life]

Imagine if your child developed type 1 Diabetes....insulin and supplies for that will easily run you over $1K per month and you could hit that lifetime cap in that first hospitalization of DKA where they get diagnosed.

Or if you develop breast cancer at a young age.

I have to believe that these programs only work on the arrogance of healthy individuals who perpetuate the arrogance because they are healthy but also because the second you aren't healthy, you are forced out of the program. Come down with Lupus and you would either have to seek real health insurance or risk death.

So they have safety nets that underwrite emergency health care and childhood health care, and if they actually get sick they can shop on the marketplace for real insurance. Basically, they use religion to demand society underwrite their unforeseen emergencies while thumbing their noses at the very safety nets they utilize if the unforeseen happens to them.

[MrsYoungie]

I know there is a huge sticking point about having birth control covered under the ACA, but what if that part really got removed. Would the Right wingers find another problem to screech about? Would the compromise be worth it if it got more people covered? Are the red states really only concerned about this one piece of the legislation? Or is it just their excuse to hate whatever the brown president has in mind?

Canadian here. Our health care is covered for just about everything. However there are things that are not covered at all: dentists, prescription drugs not administered at a hospital, physio therapy. These are all important omissions, but not necessarily bankrupting costs.

Is there a hope in hell that the U.S. will ever have actual universal single payer health care?

[hoipolloi]

So they have safety nets that underwrite emergency health care and childhood health care, and if they actually get sick they can shop on the marketplace for real insurance. Basically, they use religion to demand society underwrite their unforeseen emergencies while thumbing their noses at the very safety nets they utilize if the unforeseen happens to them.

Exactly. Part and parcel of the essential hypocrisy that is fundie "Christianity."

This is also the mentality that allows Scamaritan participants to stiff medical providers out of tens of thousands on bills that Scamaritan won't/can't cover -- just like little Tait Zimmerman & the begging campaign his parents set up to pay off the much lower negotiated amounts after his premature birth and extensive NICU stay (littletait.com/our-needs).

While there are certainly legitimate issues with the varied charges levied for medical care by hospitals & physicians, the Scamaritan approach to it -- accepting the care (often emergency) and then forcing down the ultimate costs -- is NOT the way to address these issues so that the system is fixed.

[bea]

Article today on "Christian cost sharing" to avoid paying insurance. Or fines for not having insurance. While reaping the benefits of not having insurance and qualifying for all the discounts!

Christians Flock to Groups That Help Members Pay Medical Bills

http://nyti.ms/2258AN5

[gustava]

Ugh.

[slickcat79]

He and Sarah, who stays home with their two toddlers, mail a flat $405 payment to a fellow member every month, the standard rate for families of three or more. Had they stuck with the insurance he was offered through work, the Doyles said, their share of the premium would have been about $600 a month, and they would have had to pay the first $5,000 in annual medical costs outside of preventive care.

Under the ministry, they also have to pay the first $300 of any medical expense they incur. They have not yet had a doctor’s bill exceed that amount, though they are waiting somewhat nervously for that day to come. Samaritan limits spending on each injury or illness to $250,000, with exceptions for people who agree to pay extra each year toward others’ bills above that amount.

I guess I'm not really understanding the savings here? They still pay almost as much as they would for their family premium for real insurance, and they've still had to pay out of pocket for every medical expense they've had so far, including preventive care.

Acknowledging that many families can qualify for subsidized insurance policies with free preventive care through the Affordable Care Act, Mr. Lansberry said that most new members were not “joining primarily on price; they are joining primarily on principle.”

Oh, never mind

And then there's this:

In 2001, Ohio’s attorney general sued one ministry — known then as the Christian Brotherhood Newsletter, and now as Christian Healthcare Ministries — ultimately forcing its leaders to repay $15 million they had spent on homes, vehicles and excessive salaries out of the central fund where members had sent payments.

So Christian. And the "ministry" is still in business, one of the top 3 largest orgs in the country.

[FundieFarmer]

Oh boy wow oh boy wow oh boy wow. Wow. This is the first time I've really happened on this and read into it, but it gives me the heebie jeebies just looking into it. If you've been around FJ a while you know I have a bucket of health conditions, so this definitely isn't for me upfront. But what about people who get sick after they've already joined? I mean, one or two people at $250k are going to drain the system and then those costs will come right back on to them. This is really only for extra healthy people who want to stick it to the ACA while shafting themselves in the process. 

Stupid to let faith blind you so much your health goes sideways. There's no sin in getting health insurance.*

*I can't believe that's even a sentence that would ever have to be typed. 

[klynn]

This seems to be just setting yourself up for disaster.  What would happen if you get into a horrific car accident, or had cancer, or any number of things?  $250,000 likely isn't going to cut it.  I have a friend who was nearly killed in a head on collision two summers ago.  She is still having surgeries to reconstruct her leg, and I know the total is well over a million. 

It seems very irresponsible to me to forgo traditional health insurance for Scamaritan or the likes. 

[Cleopatra7]

This article probably doesn't have much new information for us, but it's good that more people are being informed about this kind of faux-insurance:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/11/us/christians-flock-to-groups-that-help-members-pay-medical-bills.html?em_pos=large&emc=edit_nn_20160311&nl=morning-briefing&nlid=57825966&_r=0

As one would expect, these "ministries" are being ripped apart in the comments section, because the costs of members who get cancer, have c-sections, and pre-existing conditions (not to mention preemies) will be pushed onto the tax payer.

[hoipolloi]

I was also glad to see this newest article on Scamaritan in the NYT.

There are some SMI defenders in the comments but it seems pretty clear that none of them have run up against a major expense such as prolonged hospitalization in an ICU or have been rejected for "pre-existing" conditions. 

[kpmom]

I always wonder exactly how much Nathan and Melanie Maxwell have collected from Scamaritan.

Most of their kids have spent a least a little while in the NICU, and Susannah was there for several days, maybe a week.

 

[bea]

In a blog entry of someone who was using Samaritan and had a child in the Pediatric ICU, they had taken advantage of the fact that they were technically uninsured. The child's medical bills were covered by the state.

That is one of the many things that drives me crazy about this. They are gaming the system - claiming to be uninsured, because this isn't, technically, health insurance, and receiving lowered bills as a result. Then, because they belong to this ministry, they have help in paying off the bills. Where does that extra money end up, the money that was taken off their bill because they aren't insured? On the bills of people who pay for regular health insurance.

They oppose health insurance, unless it's free, apparently. I have not heard any complaints from fundies with children who have had long stays in the NICU about the evil government swooping in to....... pay the hospital bills so that they don't go bankrupt, and so is their child receives care and doesn't die. The government needs to stay out of healthcare, unless it is paying for them to have more children.

I would like to see scams like this become illegal. They aren't benefitting anyone but the people running it.