Australian mother of 8 (?) kills 7 and her neice :(

[SarahD]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/world/australi ... -1.2879781

Does anybody know anymore about this tragic case? It was her 20 year old son who found them so she was 17 when she had him.. we're there other older children? Was she an Andrea Yates? Or just prolific? A father or father's involved? Religion or drugs? What a horrific story :(

[BrownieMomma]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/world/australian-woman-arrested-in-killing-of-8-children-1.2879781

Does anybody know anymore about this tragic case? It was her 20 year old son who found them so she was 17 when she had him.. we're there other older children? Was she an Andrea Yates? Or just prolific? A father or father's involved? Religion or drugs? What a horrific story :(

I read that. Assumed she was a welfare recipient rather than a fundie. Sad all the way around.

[SarahD]

I really didn't want to say "welfare case"... I thought I'd be eaten up lol my other stereotyping guess would be an ethnic one... although I can't figure it out yet, Australia has some interesting history when it comes to homicide.

[happy atheist]

I read that. Assumed she was a welfare recipient rather than a fundie. Sad all the way around.

Fuck you.

I really didn't want to say "welfare case"... I thought I'd be eaten up lol my other stereotyping guess would be an ethnic one... although I can't figure it out yet, Australia has some interesting history when it comes to homicide.

And fuck you, too.

[DaffyDill]

Australia has some interesting history when it comes to homicide.

Do we? Please elaborate.

And the rest wasn't worth a response, as Happy Atheist said it all.

Quote from the police Inspector in charge of the case:

"It's not a problem house, as has been speculated," he said. This is just an ordinary neighbourhood with a lot of good people and a lot of kids in the area.This is just something that's caught everybody by surprise – it's just an absolutely tragic event."

The family has expressed concerns that if the woman had been suffering severe depression, or a mental illness, she may not have asked for help.

Why their ethnicity is an issue to the poster further up, I have no idea.

And by the way SarahD, It's NIECE :roll:

[apple1]

Assumed she was a welfare recipient rather than a fundie. Sad all the way around.

Do food stamps and WIC constitute "welfare"?

If so (as far as I know) - you haven't murdered anyone yet. What gives with this post?

[Tesseract]

I saw this last night - so, so sad. This morning, when they reported that the mother had been arrested, I wondered about untreated mental illness. Tragic.

[Boogalou]

I read that. Assumed she was a welfare recipient rather than a fundie. Sad all the way around.

Every time you post about any minority group (gay people, black people, atheists, and now poor people) you sound incredibly bigoted and it does not reflect well on you. If I were you I would either stop being bigoted or stop posting about minority groups.

[brokenminded]

There was a pastor uncle in a paper yesterday and with the new information that one child was a niece I do hope it wasn't his daughter and at tge time of the interview he didn't know. Everything I've seen and read implies a healthy family dynamic. I see no signs of poverty or abusive religion. Why would people assume they were poor? They seemed to live in a nice suburb, granted I'm not from Australia, but the house looked huge.

[jaelh]

a family member reported that the woman had "found God" recently. No indication it was abusive.

brokenminded: I think the poverty references are because the one of the very very earliest reports included a quote that said that the area where the house was located had a lot of public housing. The quote has been repeated in most every story on the tragedy since.

Re: ethnicity. The woman was a Torres Straits islander - they're one of the two broad groups of indigenous people in Australia. (Aboriginal Australians from the mainland; the TSI on the islands between Queensland/NT and PNG).

There are lots of virulent stereotyping about indigenous families in Australia. SarahD's reference above seems to indicate her position.

[SarahD]

I apologies my posts can't be as structured or long as I'd like, I live in an area with no real internet access so my little BlackBerry Q10 with its small screen and my large thumbs is my only computer.

No harm meant in my phrasing, I'm not a bigot :) I do speculate a lot and like to put stories together with all the little details. Do the little details like age, race, creed, social economic status matter? I don't know, maybe not, but I like to know. I also like to talk to people, I'm not very PC in my vocabulary and although I won't say deliberately hurtful things I don't choose my words so carefully that I can't just spit out what I have to say. It's real, it's on my mind and if I'm wrong how will I know if I don't let it out and have someone correct me? If I offend,

I can explain or apologies, I have some big girl panties I can put on in case of emergency :).

All I know about Australia I learned from the net.. I like reading crime pages and I saw interesting things. My only other connection is that my dad served in the ANZAC army in the 70's and fought with them in Vietnam.

I can a I canappologis

[DaffyDill]

I agree a few background details to give context can help flesh out a story a little, but rather than find this case "interesting", and tease out the more salacious details, most people seem to find it horrifying and terribly tragic. Obviously, this includes our police officers on the scene and the ambulance workers, all of whom will no doubt be offered and probably need counselling at some point.

So anyway, just out of curiosity, what is Australia's "interesting past when it comes to homicide" you mentioned?

[DGayle]

I've been waiting to find out more about this case. Andrea Yates was bona fide depressed and had tried killing herself a few times. But not everyone who kills kids is depressed. Some people are evil, and as comfortable as it is to think that evilness and doing atrocious things has to be a mental illness, calling it that excuses, to at least a little extent, the people who do this stuff. Also you can be mentally ill, and still competent. It's an insult to say "maybe she was mentally ill" like that excuses her, and I've seen people say that. How many of us on this forum have dealt with mental illness? Are we all incompetent?

I'm still waiting before I pass my judgement.

[Tesseract]

I've been waiting to find out more about this case. Andrea Yates was bona fide depressed and had tried killing herself a few times. But not everyone who kills kids is depressed. Some people are evil, and as comfortable as it is to think that evilness and doing atrocious things has to be a mental illness, calling it that excuses, to at least a little extent, the people who do this stuff. Also you can be mentally ill, and still competent. It's an insult to say "maybe she was mentally ill" like that excuses her, and I've seen people say that. How many of us on this forum have dealt with mental illness? Are we all incompetent?

I'm still waiting before I pass my judgement.

You make some very good points. I think for me, that thought was part of my initial shock reaction -- like there had to be an explanation (not excuse) other than cold-blooded murder. It's just too horrific.

My friend from AU wrote and said they haven't ruled out drugs. I just looked and there is more information about her sudden intense turn to religion, her husband arguing with her about it and other possible bits of info. No official statements yet that I know of.

[DaffyDill]

Apparently the mother had recently become very religious and denounced technology. There was a sign on the home stating "No alcohol, cigarettes or drugs beyond this point." She would launch into religious tirades in the street, but the community seem to consider her to be a good person - why would relatives allow their children to stay with her if they didn't? Other sources say the house was a "party house", which story is true, I don't know.

Police are looking into the possibility drugs were a factor, ice in particular, but as yet have not found any evidence to confirm that theory - no drugs, no drug paraphernalia.

As far as mental health goes, I don't think anyone considers that to be an excuse for this tragedy or any other, but simply a possible contributing factor. It's human nature to try and understand how or why such a thing could happen as it helps us deal with the horror, and "get our heads around it".

The woman in question has not yet been assessed by mental health professionals, so at this moment she would face a normal criminal court. However, assessment is imminent, and then it will be decided where the DPP* take it from there; she may end up being tried in a mental health court. At the moment she remains in hospital under a police guard.

In case anyone is wondering, the media won't publish images or the names of the deceased children per police request. Traditional Aboriginal law does not permit it, as they believe mentioning names and showing images recalls and disturbs the spirits of the dead. A couple of media outlets have apparently disregarded this, but have since been asked to remove any names and images.

*DPP = Director of Public Prosecutions - equivalent to an American DA I imagine.

Edited: Clarity

[ViolaSebastian]

As far as mental health goes, I don't think anyone considers that to be an excuse for this tragedy or any other, but simply a possible contributing factor. It's human nature to try and understand how or why such a thing could happen as it helps us deal with the horror, and "get our heads around it".

I also think that as a society, we assume mental illness is a contributing factor when parents, particularly mothers, kill their children. There are very few crimes more heinous in the public imagination, for the simple reason that mothers (parents, but mothers in particular) are expected to be nurturing, loving, and protect our children above all else. When mothers don't live up to that societal expectation, it can be very difficult to understand and process.

[Mama Mia]

I think part of the problem is that " mental illness", like any kind of illness, covers a really, really wide spectrum of severity. Even within a particular diagnosis like " bi-polar disorder" there can be a gigantic range in behaviors and response to treatment.

I don't think that speculating that someone who kills most of their children is excusing their behavior, or assuming that people with mental health issues are out-of-control, or violent or likely to go on a killing spree.

For me, one reason I wonder about mental illness possibly being a factor, especially with something this far out of the norm, is that sometimes starting a new psychiatric medication can, unfortunately, induce psychosis and violent behavior.

[CorruptionInc.]

Our media is not reliable; but apparently this mother had been severely injured with a hammer 10 years ago. She could've had some brain injury? It's just so sad that she killed these Children and my heart breaks for the child that found them all.

[LadyCrow1313]

This reminds me of a tragedy that recently happened in my area. A 19 year old caretaker killed her 5-year old cousin a few weeks ago (& had initially concocted a false report of a home invasion; he'd been found in snow by search dogs the following night after the initial amber alert had been issued). There have been rumors that mentioned that she may be bipolar, but I'm not sure if this is true.

Regardless of rumors (be they true or false), it's a sad thing to have happened (especially @ this time of year; well, anytime of year, really). Peace & love...

[Jecca]

... Australia has some interesting history when it comes to homicide.

Please explain.

[BrownieMomma]

Do food stamps and WIC constitute "welfare"?

If so (as far as I know) - you haven't murdered anyone yet. What gives with this post?

Yes, food stamps and WIC are welfare. At least I think they are.

[BrownieMomma]

Every time you post about any minority group (gay people, black people, atheists, and now poor people) you sound incredibly bigoted and it does not reflect well on you. If I were you I would either stop being bigoted or stop posting about minority groups.

Speck, plank.

[formergothardite]

Speck, plank.

This makes absolutely no sense and shows that yet again you are completely incapable of defending your beliefs or the things you write. Last I checked Boogalou does not go around writing bigoted things about minority groups so there is no plank in her eye. You, on the other hand, do this on a fairly regular basis. And when called out you run from the thread. You should really think about why you believe things that are so indefensible that you must leave threads whenever you are questioned deeply about the things you say.

[littlemommy]

This makes absolutely no sense and shows that yet again you are completely incapable of defending your beliefs or the things you write. Last I checked Boogalou does not go around writing bigoted things about minority groups so there is no plank in her eye. You, on the other hand, do this on a fairly regular basis. And when called out you run from the thread. You should really think about why you believe things that are so indefensible that you must leave threads whenever you are questioned deeply about the things you say.

Lol, I spent a few moments trying to figure out how "Speck, plank" could possibly be a reply to the other post. I figured it was out of the "random answer generator".

[apple1]

Yes, food stamps and WIC are welfare. At least I think they are.

Well then, why the heck would you, a "welfare" recipient according to your own previous posts, write such a post? Or do you totally miss my point?