NC Town Persecutes Christians

[formergothardite]

"For me as a Christian, to be asked not to celebrate is a violation of free speech."

These are the words of Monty Self a resident of Dallas, NC. One would think reading that that the town has banned private citizens from celebrating Christmas, but the reality is that there has been no free speech violations. Another resident of the town(whose identity is being kept private because he/she fears harassment) contacted the Freedom From Religion Foundation about the nativity scene that is displayed on the courthouse steps. The Foundation sent a letter to the city of Dallas and they had to move the nativity scene down the road to private property. They town says it will fight to be able to put the nativity scene back. They are working with Christian legal organizations to try and figure out a way to get around the laws. Which makes me wonder the legality of spending city money to fight to keep a religious symbol on government property especially since I bet they would not allow any other religions to put up displays for their holidays.

http://www.gastongazette.com/residents- ... 3562?tc=cr

http://myfox8.com/2014/12/13/small-nort ... y-display/

http://www.wccbcharlotte.com/news/local ... &smobile=y

If they allow it they should also make it clear that any other religious or non-religious groups can also use the court house steps. Dallas is a part of Gaston County that has a Muslim population. If a Muslim family lived in Dallas and wanted to put up a display for one of their holidays I bet all hell would break loose.

[canbritam]

I really wish these people that go around screaming I'm a Christian! I'm being persecuted! actually woke up and realized what persecution actually is.

[formergothardite]

I have a friend who is non-religious and lives in Dallas, NC and that is why I heard about the story. She isn't the one who contacted the organization, but she told me that she briefly thought about making a Festivus pole and showing up with it while they were staging the live Nativity protest just to make a point that the government shouldn't cater to one religion. But she has kids in the small elementary school and is worried what would happen to them if she did it. She knows that other kids would be told by their parents and bully her kids.

[browncoatslytherin]

I have a friend who is non-religious and lives in Dallas, NC and that is why I heard about the story. She isn't the one who contacted the organization, but she told me that she briefly thought about making a Festivus pole and showing up with it while they were staging the live Nativity protest just to make a point that the government shouldn't cater to one religion. But she has kids in the small elementary school and is worried what would happen to them if she did it. She knows that other kids would be told by their parents and bully her kids.

if i was living in the area, i would do it for your friend :) i'd also set up a yule log and maybe a fsm display...birthing a large shell pasta, maybe? :lol:

[formergothardite]

That was the most pitiful live nativity I've ever seen, though. :lol: Mary is wearing jeans and what looks like a modified snuggie. If you are going to be dressing up as the mother of your Savior you should at least put some effort into it.

[ADoyle90815]

I hope they would allow a menorah to be put up since if they didn't, they would appear anti-Semitic in my opinion. Also, if a Muslim group wanted to put something up for one of their holidays, you know all hell would break loose there. The other thing is that Christmas was set in December as a way to convert pagans who had their own holidays when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, so it could be said it's the fault of the evil Catholics. If there were a historical Jesus, he was most likely born in the spring, but nobody is going to suggest moving Christmas to March.

[DGayle]

These so-called persecuted Christians should move to the middle east, where Christians are sooooooooo not persecuted. Unless it's by death.

[Trynn]

I hope they would allow a menorah to be put up since if they didn't, they would appear anti-Semitic in my opinion. Also, if a Muslim group wanted to put something up for one of their holidays, you know all hell would break loose there. The other thing is that Christmas was set in December as a way to convert pagans who had their own holidays when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, so it could be said it's the fault of the evil Catholics. If there were a historical Jesus, he was most likely born in the spring, but nobody is going to suggest moving Christmas to March.

[dairyfreelife]

I'd totally put up lights and an altar for Diwali in that town if I lived there. It's usually in November or December (was October this year, but it's normally not that early). Those idols...you know the Christians would hate that. :D

[formergothardite]

From FB it looks like the enthusiasm for staging a live nativity every night till Christmas is starting to dwindle. It started out with 100+ people coming out and it seems like they are down to around 14 people who are saying that they will come.

[browncoatslytherin]

From FB it looks like the enthusiasm for staging a live nativity every night till Christmas is starting to dwindle. It started out with 100+ people coming out and it seems like they are down to around 14 people who are saying that they will come.

[BrownieMomma]

A local resident is lot different than a national atheist group. So I guess a local resident supposedly called this Freedom from Religion Foundation? Can't tell from the articles as they each report something different. Why accuracy so difficult to find in journalism? What happened to reporting FACTS? Maybe that ever existed in FantasyLand. Ugh. Different rant.

Just an FYI - the website for this national group blazes a motto right across the top that says "Protecting the constitutional principle of separation of church and state" which is wrong. The Constitution does not say that. The First Amendment says the govt shall not establish a religion nor prohibit free exercise thereof. If you are going to wage cultural war, you should know your stuff, this comes across as no better than the Duggars stammering at the Creation Museum but but but Bible says.

Allowing a religious symbol such as a Nativity scene is not establishing a religion. It is reflecting the community. Reflecting is a whole lot different matter than establishing. Establishing would be your local city, county or state government declaring that all residents are now members of the Church of England, there will be certain things that happen and don't happen, and if those don't happen then there will punishments.

Sure, why not have other religious groups in that community put up their religious displays. Who owns the pieces of the nativity scene, pays for the storage? Now if the town is paying for the local majority, the town should be forking over some bucks for any other religious minorities. The simplest thing there is the town pays for no religious displays but allows private citizens to put them up.

Key thing here is local to the community. This is not the place for the FL satanist group to try to erect their statue. Local Muslims or Jews or wiccans or atheists or whoever should be able to put up religious displays for validly recognized holidays or celebrations.

Technically, this is persecution, if you accept this definition of persecution:

hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of race or political or religious beliefs.

[formergothardite]

BrownieMomma doesn't have me on ignore!!!! I really thought she did when she ignored all my posts to her in other threads where she says offensive things. So it is the ebil atheist attacking Christians this time, last time it was the ebil gays. I'll tell my friend who lives in this town she should just go right on up there and talk to the officials about how she feels. It isn't like it a tiny town where everyone knows everyone and people are going to find out. It isn't like the government officials are very, very Christian and anti-other beliefs. It isn't like atheists are feared in this area. Nope, it isn't like her kids would get bullied in school and who knows what else would happen if the town found out that she no longer wanted her tax money to go toward the town storing and owning a nativity display that they put up every year on government property. I will go tell her right away that BrownieMomma has the answer, and plus, if she wants the display taken down she doesn't need to contact an organization that has the time and money to deal with the government catering to one religion, she needs to pay for that shit out of her own pocket.

They also didn't lose their 40 year tradition. It is still there where everyone can see it, just on private property.

[formergothardite]

A government that does not allow religious displays just reflects the government. That is it. Reflecting atheism would be not allowing religious displays while allowing things that say "There is no God". But keeping the government focusing on the government and not on religion or the lack of religion has nothing to do with atheism.

Dallas, NC doesn't have to spend money on lawyers, they can just let the display be put up on private property. Low cost way to solve the problem. No money on lawyers, no worry about making residents who are not Christian feel like the government caters to Christians. It is a very simple solution.

[happy atheist]

A local resident is lot different than a national atheist group. So I guess a local resident supposedly called this Freedom from Religion Foundation? Can't tell from the articles as they each report something different. Why accuracy so difficult to find in journalism? What happened to reporting FACTS? Maybe that ever existed in FantasyLand. Ugh. Different rant.

Just an FYI - the website for this national group blazes a motto right across the top that says "Protecting the constitutional principle of separation of church and state" which is wrong. The Constitution does not say that. The First Amendment says the govt shall not establish a religion nor prohibit free exercise thereof. If you are going to wage cultural war, you should know your stuff, this comes across as no better than the Duggars stammering at the Creation Museum but but but Bible says.

Allowing a religious symbol such as a Nativity scene is not establishing a religion. It is reflecting the community. Reflecting is a whole lot different matter than establishing. Establishing would be your local city, county or state government declaring that all residents are now members of the Church of England, there will be certain things that happen and don't happen, and if those don't happen then there will punishments.

Sure, why not have other religious groups in that community put up their religious displays. Who owns the pieces of the nativity scene, pays for the storage? Now if the town is paying for the local majority, the town should be forking over some bucks for any other religious minorities. The simplest thing there is the town pays for no religious displays but allows private citizens to put them up.

Key thing here is local to the community. This is not the place for the FL satanist group to try to erect their statue. Local Muslims or Jews or wiccans or atheists or whoever should be able to put up religious displays for validly recognized holidays or celebrations.

Technically, this is persecution, if you accept this definition of persecution:

I'd say these actions by atheists to remove cherished community traditions are hostile. It always has the feel of lashing out at someone you hate and this is not some cherished belief of atheists it's just a way to inflict hurt. It's not the same level of persecution as faced by Christians in the Middle East but it is a hostile action all the same.

See, I'm not fooled. I have a few brain cells rubbing together. A city government that allows no religious displays is a reflection of ATHEISM. I'm not an idiot lol. I see that. No reason that belief system is any more important, true or correct than others, except of course atheists think it is. But the agenda is there. Atheists want the government to establish? reflect? atheism.

I do personally know and talk to atheists/agnostics. Not all are Christianity haters, but some are, mostly colored by personal interactions with Christians rather a purity of rational thought. Not all atheists get their panties in a bunch to see a Nativity on government property.

It's a shame those people lost their 40 year tradition because of one person's hate. Yes, folks, that is hate to threaten a small town with an expensive lawsuit. Did that "person" even approach the leadership about alternatives? Ask for their own display? Anything? Or just jump to threatening a lawsuit.

I attended my child's public high school Christmas concert last night. Yes, here in Texas we are stuck in the time warp and still have Christmas concerts given by the local public school bands and choirs. THE HORROR. Some atheist needs to get that shut down right away.

Every song was a Christmas song of some kind, but I guess given that any mention of Christmas, even secular, equates Christianity.... yeah I don't buy that line of reasoning any more. Christmas should be a Christian celebration but that's about as accurate as saying Halloween is a celebration for satan. Christmas in America is a big deal but it is as Santa-y and secular as can be.

Some songs were Christian. The host got up and talked about how he sang when he attended this high school, his children sang, and he's looking forward to someday seeing his grandchildren sing. But.. friends and neighbors... not if this dreaded horrible desecration of freedom isn't ended PRONTO.

We can't have the local school district establishing Christianity by holding Christmas concerts, especially in the school auditorium and led by school employees. Because no one counts but a minority of hating atheists, we should all lose cherished traditions.

Well Mr Host, I hope you do get to see your grandkids sing in the high school choir, both secular and religious. I hope the audience is continued to be invited to join in for one verse of Silent Night and Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, complete loudly shouted echoes from the high school students.

It was fun, it was joyous, it a lovely community time of celebration. But some hater will get it stopped, I'm sure. Sad days ahead.

*jumps out of dark shadows* BOO!

[twin2]

Technically, this is persecution, if you accept this definition of persecution:

I'd say these actions by atheists to remove cherished community traditions are hostile. It always has the feel of lashing out at someone you hate and this is not some cherished belief of atheists it's just a way to inflict hurt. It's not the same level of persecution as faced by Christians in the Middle East but it is a hostile action all the same.

[Peas n carrots]

Browniemamma, how about FG's friend - should she not be free to add her festivus pole to the holiday display in front of the courthouse according to your rationale? Her view reflects part of the community as well.

[RosyDaisy]

Have you had your Bible taken away? Has the government told you that you can't go to church or religious services? Have you been imprisoned, tortured for being Christian? If not, STFU and read a damn history book. You have no clue what religious persecution is.

NOTE: This is not directed at anyone. I'm just on my soapbox.

[Childless]

It's either all or nothing in my opinion. If Christians can use government property to display their religiosity, then so can the local Muslims, Pagans, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, etc. Somehow, I don't think they would be allowed to do so in this community (not without a lot of harassment anyway).

[RosyDaisy]

I believe in full separation of church and state. That includes all religions.

[DGayle]

Just an FYI - the website for this national group blazes a motto right across the top that says "Protecting the constitutional principle of separation of church and state" which is wrong. The Constitution does not say that. The First Amendment says the govt shall not establish a religion nor prohibit free exercise thereof. If you are going to wage cultural war, you should know your stuff, this comes across as no better than the Duggars stammering at the Creation Museum but but but Bible says.

Goddammit, Brownie. That's exactly what the constitutional amendment means. By not allowing the government to establish or endorse a religion, that means the government isn't a part of it, and can't be. That means SEPARATION.

Allowing a religious symbol such as a Nativity scene is not establishing a religion. It is reflecting the community. Reflecting is a whole lot different matter than establishing. Establishing would be your local city, county or state government declaring that all residents are now members of the Church of England, there will be certain things that happen and don't happen, and if those don't happen then there will punishments.

Depends on location. Is it on public property in such a place or way that the taxpayers would have to pay to maintain it? Are other religions allowed to place symbols of the same size with the same treatment? Can it be seen as a hostile action?

Key thing here is local to the community. This is not the place for the FL satanist group to try to erect their statue. Local Muslims or Jews or wiccans or atheists or whoever should be able to put up religious displays for validly recognized holidays or celebrations.

Why not the satanic church? Because you don't agree with it?

Technically, this is persecution, if you accept this definition of persecution:

I'd say these actions by atheists to remove cherished community traditions are hostile. It always has the feel of lashing out at someone you hate and this is not some cherished belief of atheists it's just a way to inflict hurt. It's not the same level of persecution as faced by Christians in the Middle East but it is a hostile action all the same.

No, it's not.

I have a few brain cells rubbing together.

No, you don't.

A city government that allows no religious displays is a reflection of ATHEISM.

No, it's not.

I'm not an idiot lol.

Yes, you are.

But the agenda is there. Atheists want the government to establish? reflect? atheism.

The only way to be neutral is absence of religion in the government sphere. Have it in private all you want, but allowing it in government, which includes on taxpayer property, isn't neutral. Your suggestion of just telling everyone, except for who YOU don't like, to stay putting up stuff all over is advocating for a big battle of religions when you know the majority religion will win out due to sheer numbers. I'm sure you approve of that though since it's the religion you like best.

I do personally know and talk to atheists/agnostics. Not all are Christianity haters, but some are, mostly colored by personal interactions with Christians rather a purity of rational thought. Not all atheists get their panties in a bunch to see a Nativity on government property.

Some atheists choose to focus more on schools trying to mandate prayer. Not getting panties in a bunch over nativities doesn't mean people aren't still bothered by it. Did you know people can care about 2 or more things at the same time? You can, and you should try it sometime.

It's a shame those people lost their 40 year tradition because of one person's hate. Yes, folks, that is hate to threaten a small town with an expensive lawsuit. Did that "person" even approach the leadership about alternatives? Ask for their own display? Anything? Or just jump to threatening a lawsuit.

Oh. My. Fucking. God. Can I pretty please live in your world? I'd rather live in a world where THAT is an example of hate. See, in my world, gays can't marry across the US yet, and still face being beaten to death. In my world, unarmed black people can be killed by white guys who get a paid vacation and lots of financial support from fans for it. In my world, women's medical care can be dictated by employers. What a nice change to be somewhere where hate is threatening a lawsuit over a nativity that is on public property ultimately at taxpayer expense.

I attended my child's public high school Christmas concert last night. Yes, here in Texas we are stuck in the time warp and still have Christmas concerts given by the local public school bands and choirs. THE HORROR. Some atheist needs to get that shut down right away.

Every song was a Christmas song of some kind >

What you've got going on their is either whole area of Christians, which is possible being Texas, or you've got non-Christians too intimidated to speak up even when a concert is meant to be religious and funded by the school as part of their program. You know the sane parts of the US looks down on the state that has decided Moses is a founding father and that slavery was merely a part of oceanic trade, right?

[DGayle]

It's either all or nothing in my opinion. If Christians can use government property to display their religiosity, then so can the local Muslims, Pagans, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, etc. Somehow, I don't think they would be allowed to do so in this community (not without a lot of harassment anyway).

This is why it should be none. Allowing all would invite a battle of sorts with the majority winning out and trying to intimidate and bully the minority into rolling belly up, which is what we already have happening. Easy solution is religious stuff goes on private property.

I wonder what Brownie thinks about the homeowner ordered to take his zombie nativity down, even though it was in his own front yard.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014 ... wn-lawsuit

[formergothardite]

BrownieMomma likes to claim that people attack her and not what she writes. But when people take the time to go through her posts and explain why what she said is offensive/wrong, she refuses to even acknowledge it. She is much like Lori in that she is never open to learning.

[DGayle]

BrownieMomma likes to claim that people attack her and not what she writes. But when people take the time to go through her posts and explain why what she said is offensive/wrong, she refuses to even acknowledge it. She is much like Lori in that she is never open to learning.

That's why I went for the cut-direct this time. "I'm really smart!" Im not sugar-coating it this time. That reply is full of stupid, and I've had enough of Christians crying persecution over the last 36 hours, over the world's largest holiday that is celebrated mostly for them. There is literally no other holiday celebrated in every country around the world, except for one that involves Christianity.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd pay good money to see a holiday display where the Flying Spaghetti Monster emerges from a gigantic pasta shell.