Looks like Mark Driscoll may be getting a RICO suit for Xmas

[Dark Matters]

Just what he always wanted.

patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2014/12/08/former-executive-elders-of-mars-hill-church-may-face-rico-lawsuit/

[gustava]

Wow!

[Joan of Snarc]

:banana-linedance:

[Howl]

Dark Matter, what an awesome early Christmas present, wrapped up with a big red bow!

A RICO suit will blow the books wide open, and any creative book keeping (particularly concerning Global) will be exposed immediately by forensic accountants. Also, I read somewhere on the internet(!) that the church was set to close at the "end of the year" so the RICO suit had to be filed to stop the closing process, I guess. If church funds were used to purchase "Real Marriage" a spot on the NYT Best Seller list, might Mars Hill lose its tax exempt status or at least have some sort of tax liability?

STAY TUNED AS DEVELOPMENTS UNFOLD!

Also, read a little of the RICO definition from the link in the Patheos article. I had always assumed that only the Government could file RICO charges, but there are two RICO avenues: criminal and civil, and the civil remedy also applies to "Any person injured in his business or property by reason of a violation of section 1962 of this chapter may sue therefor in any appropriate United States district court and shall recover threefold the damages he sustains and the cost of the suit, including a reasonable attorney’s fee."

If you link to the patheos article in Dark Matter's post, scroll down to the comments. People are trying to sort out the biblical basis for and injunctions against taking legal action within a community of believers. These are sincere posts, rather than inflammatory, and interesting to read, because it is a reflection of how people think about what the bible says and how widely or narrowly they use it to interpret the world.

[Howl]

On a somewhat related note, I've long been curious about Mark Driscoll's annual compensation package and found the information below in an on-line article from the Seattle P-I (Post Intelligencer). Full text here.

$500,000 (2013) with raise to $650,000 for 2014

$200,000 housing allowance

$33,000/yr to retirement plan

$13,314 annual medical premium

$4,000 cell phone allowance

$6,000 wellness stipend

"Driscoll did have time for moonlighting. He was paid an average $17,000 for speeches to 'leadership conferences at other mega-churches,' Mars Hill reported. The leadership conferences were also an opportunity to sell books. Throckmorton estimates that Driscoll received $400,000 in book advances from Thomas Nelson, publisher of his book 'Real Marriage.' " Warren Throckmorton blogs about Mars Hill/Driscoll at Patheos.

I've read online that Mark Driscoll will get a severance package of 1-year's base pay and benefits, but can't confirm that it is actually happening. Anyone?

Executive Elder Sutton Turner was paid $225,000 a year, a $153,000 salary and a $72,000 housing allowance. Executive elder Dave Bruskas was also paid $225,000, with a $120,000 salary and a $105,000 housing allowance.

Various blogs report that Sutton Turner will also get a severance package. A quote from Turner's on-line essay "How to Leave Well" posted by Wenatchee The Hatchet (I swear, you can't make this stuff up):

6. Be prepared to sacrifice

If you resign, do not request or expect to receive severance pay (severance is for layoff situations). Sudden staff loss is painful and expensive for your church. The recruitment process is a costly, time-consuming distraction, and severance essentially doubles that cost. If you’re the one who wants to leave, don’t ask your church to invest in a new hire and keep paying you a salary after you’ve gone.

[browncoatslytherin]

$4,000 cell phone allowance

everything is pretty ridiculous, but this really stood out to me...i mean, exactly why is four THOUSAND dollars needed for a cell phone allowance? my plan with an iphone 5s (that i was able to get with only putting down a small amount and paying off in increments along with my monthly payments, even though i got it fairly soon after it was released) is $80/month. unless they're just paying for them right off the bat, fresh off the press, i have no idea how someone needs to go through that much. especially considering what he's being paid. what bills does he actually pay out of his salary? phones and house is already covered by separate allowances. yeesh.

i am clearly in the wrong business.

[louisa05]

everything is pretty ridiculous, but this really stood out to me...i mean, exactly why is four THOUSAND dollars needed for a cell phone allowance? my plan with an iphone 5s (that i was able to get with only putting down a small amount and paying off in increments along with my monthly payments, even though i got it fairly soon after it was released) is $80/month. unless they're just paying for them right off the bat, fresh off the press, i have no idea how someone needs to go through that much. especially considering what he's being paid. what bills does he actually pay out of his salary? phones and house is already covered by separate allowances. yeesh.

i am clearly in the wrong business.

The only way that amount makes sense is if the church is paying for a phone plan that includes his entire family. And I'm not even sure that that should cost that much.

[browncoatslytherin]

The only way that amount makes sense is if the church is paying for a phone plan that includes his entire family. And I'm not even sure that that should cost that much.

i wouldn't think it should, family plans are usually pretty reasonable. and again, this is on top of salary already!

[jerkit]

For $200,000 he could buy a decent house.

For $4,000 he could buy his own cell tower.

And WTF is a wellness stipend?!

[Joan of Snarc]

^ Gym membership. Plus, probably a trainer and supplements and protein powder and such.

Isn't there some kind of Bible verse about it being difficult for a rich man to get into heaven?

:think:

[browncoatslytherin]

Isn't there some kind of Bible verse about it being difficult for a rich man to get into heaven?

:think:

fundies are pros at ignoring applicable bible verses

[dairyfreelife]

fundies are pros at ignoring applicable bible verses

And again I say unto you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven-Matthew 19:24

[Palimpsest]

Dark Matter, what an awesome early Christmas present, wrapped up with a big red bow!

A RICO suit will blow the books wide open, and any creative book keeping (particularly concerning Global) will be exposed immediately by forensic accountants. Also, I read somewhere on the internet(!) that the church was set to close at the "end of the year" so the RICO suit had to be filed to stop the closing process, I guess. If church funds were used to purchase "Real Marriage" a spot on the NYT Best Seller list, might Mars Hill lose its tax exempt status or at least have some sort of tax liability?

STAY TUNED AS DEVELOPMENTS UNFOLD!

Also, read a little of the RICO definition from the link in the Patheos article. I had always assumed that only the Government could file RICO charges, but there are two RICO avenues: criminal and civil, and the civil remedy also applies to "Any person injured in his business or property by reason of a violation of section 1962 of this chapter may sue therefor in any appropriate United States district court and shall recover threefold the damages he sustains and the cost of the suit, including a reasonable attorney’s fee."

If you link to the patheos article in Dark Matter's post, scroll down to the comments. People are trying to sort out the biblical basis for and injunctions against taking legal action within a community of believers. These are sincere posts, rather than inflammatory, and interesting to read, because it is a reflection of how people think about what the bible says and how widely or narrowly they use it to interpret the world.

Thank you, Santa! Now if you could just have the Doug Phillips and VFI/VFM last 10 tax returns get audited by the IRS in the New Year, I'll be a very happy camper! :D

This a civil not criminal RICO suit, correct? I don't know much about this but agree with what you said in your 2nd paragraph: the suit was probably filed to delay the church closing, possibly with a view to a) get the "Global" $$ to the people it was collected for, or b) to denude those all too generous severance packages for Driscoll, etc. My guess is that it will be settled out of court, but it will certainly pull back the curtains on financial finagling if it goes to trial.

The comments on the patheos article are very telling. There are a couple of people there convinced that any civil lawsuit against a church is wrong because Christians should never publicize disagreements to the outside world. Also, financial shenanigans are sins against God, not against those who donated or those from whom funds were diverted -- 'cos Bible.

:Sigh: These "biblical" arguments against Church conflict are at the root of so many so-called pastors getting away with their misdeeds time and time again. I'm glad to see Mike the professor and the Warren guy arguing the flip side over there.

[Black Aliss]

Not to mention his personal trainer/massage therapist or whatever the hell it is you buy with your $6K "wellness stipend".

[browncoatslytherin]

Not to mention his personal trainer/massage therapist or whatever the hell it is you buy with your $6K "wellness stipend".

from what i can tell from that list, pretty much little things here and there wouldn't be covered by a stipend. like tv/cable/internet maybe. are sewage/garbage/water/electricity/house alarm stuff covered by the housing allowance? i would think probably. what about taxes? it seems like the majority of his income therefore becomes, basically, throw away money. what the ever loving fuck.

[ThisOlGirl]

I always associate RICO suits with the mafia. In this case o can't decide whether Mark or your typical Mafioso is the bigger dirt bag.

[louisa05]

And again I say unto you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven-Matthew 19:24

Scripture twisting from Christian school:

The verse above refers to a gate in the city wall, not a needle, according to a speaker at a staff retreat. Camels fit through that gate really easily, you just had to lift them up to get them to it, so the verse means that Jesus is lifting up the rich people and not the poor people.

"Love your neighbor as yourself". The important part of this verse, a chapel speaker told our students, was the phrase "as yourself". It means that your neighbors are not everyone but, rather, are those people who are most like yourself, thus Jesus is telling us to love other Christians not anyone else.

"Blessed are those who are persecuted...". This one means, an actual book given to junior Bible class students one year claimed, that Christians should seek out persecution in order to be blessed.

I can probably think of more. I have tried to forget, though.

[16strong]

Would the 4K cell phone plan be for international business? Those international calls can add up fast.

Also, if he's getting an unlimited plan on a smart phone for 4-5 people with 100 GB data, that adds up, too.

[Palimpsest]

Scripture twisting from Christian school:

The verse above refers to a gate in the city wall, not a needle, according to a speaker at a staff retreat. Camels fit through that gate really easily, you just had to lift them up to get them to it, so the verse means that Jesus is lifting up the rich people and not the poor people.

"Love your neighbor as yourself". The important part of this verse, a chapel speaker told our students, was the phrase "as yourself". It means that your neighbors are not everyone but, rather, are those people who are most like yourself, thus Jesus is telling us to love other Christians not anyone else.

"Blessed are those who are persecuted...". This one means, an actual book given to junior Bible class students one year claimed, that Christians should seek out persecution in order to be blessed.

I can probably think of more. I have tried to forget, though.

Thank you, Louisa05! If you can think of any other examples of twisted scripture please add them. Inquiring minds ...

[browncoatslytherin]

Would the 4K cell phone plan be for international business? Those international calls can add up fast.

Also, if he's getting an unlimited plan on a smart phone for 4-5 people with 100 GB data, that adds up, too.

i didn't think about international, but i believe if you use skype or a similar service, you aren't charged like that. there's plenty of ways around straight up international charges. my brother went through the whole rigamarole when he went to the u.k. on business and had to keep in contact with his company back here in the u.s.

also, i just checked t-mobile (my provider) and for a smartphone plan with unlimited data and five lines (all of them unlimited...you can select one or two to be unlimited and limit others if you choose, but i chose all of them to be unlimited for this estimate), it's $260/month.

ooo, i just found a compare thingy on the sprint site. not sure how entirely accurate it is (the t-mobile quote is at least spot on), but for at&t it's $205/month, for verizon it's $300/month, and for sprint it's $130/month, all four of the quotes are for five lines and unlimited or nigh-unlimited data (not all providers have unlimited data).

just some interesting food for thought to add to the plate.

**edited for clarity**

[Rainytown]

For $200,000 he could buy a decent house.

For $4,000 he could buy his own cell tower.

And WTF is a wellness stipend?!

Actually, and I shudder to think I'm actually defending Mark Driscoll's "housing allowance" -- $200K won't buy a lean-to in the Seattle area. The median housing price in Seattle is now just short of $365,000. We live on Seattle's Eastside; houses in our neck o' the woods start at $350,000. It sounds like a lot to people in other areas of the country, but a four-bedroom, three bath house in the Seattle ares is most likely $600K and up. I'm sure Driscoll and his family would not consent to live anywhere the homes might be cheaper, namely Seattle's Central District or Renton.

The $4K phone expense is most likely a holdover from the days that cell minutes cost a freaking fortune and he (again, allegedly) was still soaking the church for a huge amount each month while they paid for cell phones for his entire family.

Driscoll's alleged current residence is in Woodway, WA, north of Seattle. It's valued at $1.1 million. It sounds like he lives in a gated community as well. After all, gotta' keep out those rock-throwing ruffians...It's also alleged that he owns at least one more home in Seattle as well. One of my favorite convos over the past couple of months was when my Mars Hill attending friend tried to justify Driscoll's alleged million-dollar-plus home: "Everyone here" lives in a million dollar house. Uh, no, they don't.

"Wellness stipend" -- the pastoral staff at Mars HIll was being treated by a naturopath that recently lost his license to practice because he (allegedly) used vitamins to treat cancer patients. The naturopath was charging a staggering amount of money to treat those pastors. The naturopath also went to Mars Hill, if I remember correctly.

[browncoatslytherin]

"Wellness stipend" -- the pastoral staff at Mars HIll was being treated by a naturopath that recently lost his license to practice because he (allegedly) used vitamins to treat cancer patients. The naturopath was charging a staggering amount of money to treat those pastors. The naturopath also went to Mars Hill, if I remember correctly.

ooo, i didn't know that. birds of a feather, eh?

[Joan of Snarc]

Scripture twisting from Christian school:

The verse above refers to a gate in the city wall, not a needle, according to a speaker at a staff retreat. Camels fit through that gate really easily, you just had to lift them up to get them to it, so the verse means that Jesus is lifting up the rich people and not the poor people.

"Love your neighbor as yourself". The important part of this verse, a chapel speaker told our students, was the phrase "as yourself". It means that your neighbors are not everyone but, rather, are those people who are most like yourself, thus Jesus is telling us to love other Christians not anyone else.

"Blessed are those who are persecuted...". This one means, an actual book given to junior Bible class students one year claimed, that Christians should seek out persecution in order to be blessed.

I can probably think of more. I have tried to forget, though.

[browncoatslytherin]

seriously, the most appropriate picture ever.

i feel that mr. takei should be a patron saint here of something. he's so fabulous!

[Marshmallow World]

When I first spotted this topic, my first thought was that song Rico Suave (IT WAS SEMINAL TO MY DEVELOPMENT OKAY?) and had an immediate mental picture of Mark Driscoll dressed as Gerardo. Fortunately it does not appear to be that kind of suit.

I'll be in the corner for giving you all that mental picture...