I wonder if they are jealous of Erin

[Hisey]

I was just reading on Erin and Chad's blog. They slipped away to a mountain cabin to celebrate their first anniversary.

Erin and Chad are the only fundies I follow who have made it to their first wedding anniversary without a baby or a pregnancy. They are a young couple getting to know each other and having fun. There was no morning sickness or late-night feedings on that getaway, like there will be for other young fundie couples.

Josh didn't make it to his first anniversary. Neither will Jill. Or Alyssa. Or Zach.

I know Erin had a miscarriage and for all I know she is miserably jealous of her siblings. I can understand if she is, since my husband was infertile and I was quite sad for a while.

Still, they seem to be having a good time. I suspect they'll probably have a baby eventually, and now they get to enjoy this time together. I think that's great!

All of these couples had many younger siblings. They all know what having a baby really means--the nighttime crying, the toddler destruction, the messy unpleasant restaurant meals. Living at home till marriage, they never got to experience life without babies. Even if you are a fundie male who is above childcare, you still have to sit in the car and listen to your little brother scream. You still have to smell the smell and see the mess of babies (I love babies, dont get me wrong)

It makes me wonder if any of these guys envy Chad and Erin for their infertility (assuming it will end). I wonder if they envy their freedom, their private moments, their little cottage and its privacy.

[Coco]

I was just reading on Erin and Chad's blog. They slipped away to a mountain cabin to celebrate their first anniversary.

Erin and Chad are the only fundies I follow who have made it to their first wedding anniversary without a baby or a pregnancy. They are a young couple getting to know each other and having fun. There was no morning sickness or late-night feedings on that getaway, like there will be for other young fundie couples.

Josh didn't make it to his first anniversary. Neither will Jill. Or Alyssa. Or Zach.

I know Erin had a miscarriage and for all I know she is miserably jealous of her siblings. I can understand if she is, since my husband was infertile and I was quite sad for a while.

Still, they seem to be having a good time. I suspect they'll probably have a baby eventually, and now they get to enjoy this time together. I think that's great!

All of these couples had many younger siblings. They all know what having a baby really means--the nighttime crying, the toddler destruction, the messy unpleasant restaurant meals. Living at home till marriage, they never got to experience life without babies. Even if you are a fundie male who is above childcare, you still have to sit in the car and listen to your little brother scream. You still have to smell the smell and see the mess of babies (I love babies, dont get me wrong)

It makes me wonder if any of these guys envy Chad and Erin for their infertility (assuming it will end). I wonder if they envy their freedom, their private moments, their little cottage and its privacy.

ita - i think they are jealous in those wee hours of backache and migraine.

But the bolded made me laugh. It's spot on. :lol:

[Pretzel]

I was just reading on Erin and Chad's blog. They slipped away to a mountain cabin to celebrate their first anniversary.

Erin and Chad are the only fundies I follow who have made it to their first wedding anniversary without a baby or a pregnancy. They are a young couple getting to know each other and having fun. There was no morning sickness or late-night feedings on that getaway, like there will be for other young fundie couples.

Josh didn't make it to his first anniversary. Neither will Jill. Or Alyssa. Or Zach.

I know Erin had a miscarriage and for all I know she is miserably jealous of her siblings. I can understand if she is, since my husband was infertile and I was quite sad for a while.

Still, they seem to be having a good time. I suspect they'll probably have a baby eventually, and now they get to enjoy this time together. I think that's great!

All of these couples had many younger siblings. They all know what having a baby really means--the nighttime crying, the toddler destruction, the messy unpleasant restaurant meals. Living at home till marriage, they never got to experience life without babies. Even if you are a fundie male who is above childcare, you still have to sit in the car and listen to your little brother scream. You still have to smell the smell and see the mess of babies (I love babies, dont get me wrong)

It makes me wonder if any of these guys envy Chad and Erin for their infertility (assuming it will end). I wonder if they envy their freedom, their private moments, their little cottage and its privacy.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

Shhhhh. Don't say that too loud.

I recently said I think Chad and Erin lucked out because they got some baby-free time for themselves and their relationship. Some apparently thought this automatically meant I was undermining the tragedy and pain of their early miscarriage, which I was not. It's certainly sad. Still, since things went another way...I'm glad Erin&Chad can have the experience of building a relationship without the strain a pregnancy and a baby put on a marriage

[ophelia]

no young/newlywed/knocked up fundie girl would ever admit it, but i think a lot of them might feel some kind towards of jealousy towards erin. and then there are also the ones that pity her, because they drank so much of the koolaid that they come to thinking it is some kind of punishment from the Lord or that erin isn't a real woman since she doesn't fulfill her role as broodmare.

[Luisainlondon1]

I am not sure if a newly wed fundie woman would be jealous towards Erin. I mean they are brainwashed raised to believe that babies are a gift from God. So God must love you very much if he blesses you with a baby. But I am pretty sure that once a fundie woman has a lot of children and therefore faces the reality of being part of the quiverfull movement, she'll envy childless women like Erin.

[Jana814]

Great observations everyone. I have to agree.

[HereticHick]

I agree. Erin has a cozy cottage that she got to decorate in a Peptol Bismol explosion of pink, a handsome doting husband, a loving family nearby, and a job (teaching piano) that she loves & her husband is proud of.

There has got to be some envy.

[16strong]

I agree with most of what you're saying, but it is rather insensitive to say that Erin has not had a pregnancy. She has, and lost the baby (albeit very early on). It's something I'm sure she is still very sad about, and could very possibly be jealous of other girls for. In fundie circles, it's also very possible that girls are not jealous of Erin and feel quite bad for her. Having babies is the pinnacle of their existence, after all. But, I do agree that she is lucky to have gotten the time to get to know her husband without a baby in tow.

[BrownieMomma]

I hope they are able to see this unexpected time together for what it is - a gift. I'm very sorry she miscarried, I hope she is working through her grieving and she and Chad are able to use this time to forge a special marital relationship that frankly cannot happen once a baby comes.

It is so very ironic that Michelle Duggar gives advice to mothers with newborns and the bulk of it is to stay focused on the marriage. Well that could happen and the marriage could be strengthened if childbearing were delayed a year or two. OR FOUR.

Two years is just about the right amount of time to see if something is going to work. That would be so much better for these young couples to wait a year, better two, and then start having children.

If anyone feels secretly jealous of Erin's baby-free time with her husband, they are beating that feeling down very quick.

[SamE]

Crap, I am jealous of Erin. She's beautiful, has a handsome, doting hubby. She has a dream job that her husband is proud of. Has a nice degree. Has a cute house that she got to decorate. Has a nice family close by.

Wow. I'd wait 3 or 4 years before having another child.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I agree. Erin has a cozy cottage that she got to decorate in a Peptol Bismol explosion of pink, a handsome doting husband, a loving family nearby, and a job (teaching piano) that she loves & her husband is proud of.

There has got to be some envy.

Plus she got to attend college (I don't care that its Conservative, it isn't a for-profit diploma mill), seems to haven gotten to marry for love and her parents supported all of this.

If they were ever allowed an independent thought, how envious would the one Arndt girl or the Maxwell girls be?

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

I think the full on holy crap moment won't hit until they have their second child. Growing up, most newlyweds in church were over the moon when they were expecting and through the first year of their oldest child's life. These women were raised to believe that God had designed them specifically to be a wife and mother and now they were fulfilling that duty.

When their second child was born- I think some of the excitement had worn off and the reality of being a young stay at home mom living in near poverty had set in. Having two children under two years old is a lot of work and I am sure can be very lonely at times. I think that is when they may take a step back and realize a little more time together as a married couple would have been beneficial.

[Hisey]

It's true, Erin did have a pregnancy (which I should have said). I didn't mean to seem insensitive to her. That's why I mentioned our own experience with infertility. In some ways, it was even more painful, because my husband's infertility was a clear "no way, never happening." Erin and Chad probably are hearing "give it another try". Plus, they are so young.

But they do seem to be having fun. There are no sad messages about how they tried again this month without success. All the pictures are of two happy young people.

Instead of living from aged 2-45 with small babies in the house (like Jill Duggar probably will), they are getting to have the fun experience of being a young couple with few responsibilities. I don't know, that time in my own life was fun and I'm glad they get to have it. And Erin is lucky in so many other ways--the loving family close by, the job she loves, the adoring husband. She also seems like a nice girl, far less smug than those Duggar kids.

Edited to correct some numbers

[Coconut Flan]

Just to keep it in perspective, Erin lost a pregnancy not a baby. An embryo never formed. What she had was an empty sac that didn't expel naturally. Frequently that makes it easier to handle emotionally knowing that there was never an embryo. Just going by my own experience (which I know isn't Erin's), the difficulties that they are facing in conceiving and carrying may be harder on her than losing a blighted ovum pregnancy. I can't imagine that many quiverful young married women would be jealous of going through that given the emphasis placed on fertility in that circle.

[Georgiana]

Chad and Erin keep things positive on their blog, but the promotional materials for Bringing Up Bates made note that Erin has been struggling with fertility issues. If she simply hadn't gotten pregnant yet, or if they were simply just enjoying newlywed life and not concerned about starting a family, I would agree with everyone here.

However, it sounds like Chad and Erin have been really trying to get pregnant and have not been able to. And no matter who you are and what walk of life you come from, inability to get/maintain pregnancy when you are actively trying to is heartbreaking.

I personally think that Chad and Erin have been given a gift with this year. But I think that because it is what I would want, and kids aren't super important to me. I can't imagine how painful it must be to spend a whole year where every cycle is just another confirmation that your greatest hope isn't coming true (yet).

[Idolatry]

Chad and Erin keep things positive on their blog, but the promotional materials for Bringing Up Bates made note that Erin has been struggling with fertility issues. If she simply hadn't gotten pregnant yet, or if they were simply just enjoying newlywed life and not concerned about starting a family, I would agree with everyone here.

However, it sounds like Chad and Erin have been really trying to get pregnant and have not been able to. And no matter who you are and what walk of life you come from, inability to get/maintain pregnancy when you are actively trying to is heartbreaking.

I personally think that Chad and Erin have been given a gift with this year. But I think that because it is what I would want, and kids aren't super important to me. I can't imagine how painful it must be to spend a whole year where every cycle is just another confirmation that your greatest hope isn't coming true (yet).

Yea, I agree with this. They aren't enjoying a honeymoon year because it is measured in crushing failed cycles. This is hard on any marriage. I can't imagine anyone with half a heart envying a miscarriage of a much-wanted pregnancy.

I am interested in how they will present this on the show. Medically speaking a miscarriage and a few months of trying is not even infertility. It's very common. Zsu claims to have had three miscarriages. Plenty of women have been through this without making a reality show out of it. Assuming there's not more going on, it's not even medically time for her to be doing anything interesting with fertility doctors.

Infertility is TERRIBLE TV. It didn't work for the Sister Wives or the Kardashians. I guess it kind of worked on the Little Couple, but they were using the best science had to offer, which I don't see happening for the Bates. But this kind of "struggle" is just a lot of internally painful waiting and crying. It's just lonely and unfair and terrible TV.

[alba]

Chad and Erin keep things positive on their blog, but the promotional materials for Bringing Up Bates made note that Erin has been struggling with fertility issues. If she simply hadn't gotten pregnant yet, or if they were simply just enjoying newlywed life and not concerned about starting a family, I would agree with everyone here.

However, it sounds like Chad and Erin have been really trying to get pregnant and have not been able to. And no matter who you are and what walk of life you come from, inability to get/maintain pregnancy when you are actively trying to is heartbreaking.

I personally think that Chad and Erin have been given a gift with this year. But I think that because it is what I would want, and kids aren't super important to me. I can't imagine how painful it must be to spend a whole year where every cycle is just another confirmation that your greatest hope isn't coming true (yet).

I think Chad and Erin probably struggle to see this time alone together as a gift, especially as they seem to genuinely want to be parents and were clearly devastated by the miscarriage, but I do hope that five, ten years down the line, when they have toddlers running underfoot and babies howling, they'll look back on this year and be grateful for the chance to strengthen their marriage and spend time alone together before becoming parents.

[Dandruff]

If there's jealousy of Erin I think it would be for the wonderful husband she has. I wonder how many other young women in their circle may have had their eyes on him...and couldn't do anything about it.

I'm hoping that Erin is pregnant and keeping quiet for awhile. They want a baby.

[meee]

I can't agree that this is a gift for them, if they do truly want children. It's one thing to be actively preventing it, or even to (and I hope this isn't the case for them) have such a hopeless infertility diagnosis that you know nothing will happen naturally. In the latter case, each month would bring resignation or possibly sadness, which is much better in my opinion than dashed hopes, again and again and again (and I had that for two years until we figured out the cause, and now I know that we can't conceive naturally, so it's okay).

If anything, I think it is healthy to be dealing with it the way they seem to - making the most of this time to travel, having Erin teach, etc. Remember how Alyssa (I think?) wouldn't get a job because she "knew" she would get pregnant soon and have to quit? Can you imagine if SHE had ended up like Erin? I just feel like putting one's life on hold for a potential baby is unhealthy (and I know - I did it for months).

[Hisey]

I think it's pretty clear that Erin's situation is sad, if indeed they want a baby (seems like they do). Of course it is very sad to want a baby and not have one. I lived it myself.

I never wondered about that. I wondered if other fundie girls are jealous of them. If Erin's inferility is making them think about other possible options for their lives.

I mean, Jill did not have a minute alone with Derrick before marriage. Soon, she will have to share him again, this time with a beloved baby, but still, she will have to share. Does she ever think, "I wonder if this is the right way? What would have been so wrong about waiting a year?"

Or does Joy Anna or Jessa look at Chad and Erin and think, "I wouldn't mind a year or two of that fun lifestyle. Maybe babies can wait."

When I thought we were fertile, I had no idea of the pain infertile couples go through. I'm sure young fundie girls have no idea what failed cycle after failed cycle feels like. They are probably just seeing a baby-less lifestyle and two adults without many responsibilities, except to each other. For perhaps the first time in their lives, they see an adult couple that is free to have just the kind of fun young people like to have.

[Sundaymorning]

I don't think they are jealous right now, they are probably very glad they can fulfill their "role" by getting pregnant fast, and right now Erin is probably not very happy with the current situation.

But I can imagine that a few years down the road, when Erin will (hopefully for her) have a few kids, she might really value the time she got with her husband alone. And in a few years, the other young wives, might wish they would have gotten some quiet time for themselves and their husband before jumping on the crazy and grueling baby-bandwagon which doesn't stop until their mid-forties, unless they get to their senses and start using some kind of bc.

[scoutsadie]

I seriously doubt any of these young women can see anything positive in the way circumstances have turned out for these two. At the very most, the young mom with toddlers under foot may experience some cognitive dissonance, but I bet she would just attribute that to Satan whispering evil things to her, and try to pray it away.

(And once more, this board helps me appreciate my happily married atheist childfree-by-choice life. Gracias.)

[defraudingjezebel]

While I can imagine that some of the young, newlywed women with children may feel some jealousy, I can't imagine that is the most common feeling people have towards her situation. They've been programmed since birth to value children and the women have internalized their role of primarily being child-bearers. Sure, we as outsiders see that they have a great lifestyle wherein she is working a job she loves, they have a nice house, etc., but I doubt Erin feels like she is living the dream. I hope she is mentally well but I worry that she might be hard on herself for not living up to the high fertility standard.

I also wonder if people dare to treat her poorly because of this! Think about it- in their minds adulthood == marriage with children. I wonder if they regard childless couples as being stuck in some kind pre-adulthood stage, since they haven't borne the responsibilities of "true adults" (in their minds).

[Jana814]

I hope they don't treat Erin poorly. I have to say though I'm sure thru actively trying.

[DGayle]

I know the miscarriage was hard. It is hard even when pregnancies aren't planned! But I think they're very lucky right now because the are getting to just know each other, and I think they'll have a genuinely good marriage for it.