No Nutcracker For You

[Lady Grass Lake]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/11/ ... stmas-tree

Umm...Christmas Holiday staple, surprise there's an evil holiday symbol on the stage.

[browncoatslytherin]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/11/25/parents-offended-by-nutcracker-christmas-tree

Umm...Christmas Holiday staple, surprise there's an evil holiday symbol on the stage.

this is just all kinds of fuckery. the nutcracker is a story about a freakin christmas present come to life, so OF COURSE there's going to be specific christmas paraphernalia present. smh.

i'm a little extra defensive of the nutcracker because i used to watch the vhs tape of the tv movie with mikhail baryshnikov and gelsey kirkland. it was a big part of my childhood around christmas time. it actually made me want to be a ballerina, though my mum never signed me up for classes.

[ariel9]

So if this kid's parents are so hung up over the mere sight of a Christmas tree, what are they doing now? Do they just go out in public with blindfolds on and bump into everything right now? :cray-cray:

[Anny Nym]

Meanwhile in Danmark...

http://rt.com/news/208959-muslim-christ ... celebrate/

[VVV]

I have now found myself in agreement with a Fox News opinion piece.

:pink-shock:

[browncoatslytherin]

I have now found myself in agreement with a Fox News opinion piece.

:pink-shock:

i know, right? the proverbial place of eternal torment has now turned into an ice rink.

[anachronistic]

I find it especially funny because I pass by that school on my way to work every day, and if there are parents in that area that want their kids to not see Christmas trees, um, that's just not going to happen. They were putting up the lights in the town center yesterday, and there are several over-the-top decorated houses within blocks of the school.

[jerkit]

Evergreen trees are just so offensive.

[FloraKitty35]

The decision was reversed, but I doubt Fox "News" would ever bring that up.

http://www.whdh.com/story/27452774/belm ... acker-trip

[Four is Enough]

This is the most ridiculous story yet, but the season is just beginning.

[PrairieGirl]

I have a dirty mind, so I assumed that these people were freaked out beings the Nutrcracker contained the word "nut". I'll see myself out....

[misslady]

I can't find enough information to figure out if the complaint was "Christmas trees are evil" or "We don't celebrate Christmas in our house and would prefer our child to attend a different performance". If the former, yeah, whatever. If the latter, honestly, I get it. For all that it's art or whatever, it's still Christmas-themed art, even if not religious, and while I don't necessarily see it as a church/state thing or anything, I think I would be uncomfortable sending my Jewish child along. (And I freaking LOVE the Nutcracker.) But I will probably also be That Mom complaining about too many carols at the "Winter Concert" if we don't do Jewish day school, so take that for what it's worth.

[BrownieMomma]

The decision was reversed, but I doubt Fox "News" would ever bring that up.

http://www.whdh.com/story/27452774/belm ... acker-trip

Instead of doubting, you could read the article.

Quoted from the article linked in first post:

Once the parents learned the trip had been canceled – they raised a ruckus and faster than you could say “Sugar Plum Fairy†– the PTA reversed its decision.

[artdecades]

Ummm, am I on Free Jinger or Fox News right now?

Parents didn't want their public school children taken to a play with religious undertones. They have a right to complain. There is nothing about it being evil.

Once again, the completely idiotic and harmful idea of "secular christmas" is being pushed. Christmas/Christians are not the default.

[browncoatslytherin]

Parents didn't want their public school children taken to a play with religious undertones. They have a right to complain. There is nothing about it being evil.

unless the nutcracker has changed drastically since i last saw it performed by the atlanta ballet company, there are no religious undertones to it that i recall. i've read a couple of book versions, and they had varying degrees of religion in them (not much, just appropriate for the time period it was set in) but the actual ballets? nope.

[thoughtful]

If the parents really worded their objection only as "there is a Christmas tree onstage," that was a weird way to express their concern (neither of the articles was clear about whether that was the only objection). And cancelling a trip secretly would also be a stupid thing to do. Also, if the trip was voluntary, that's not as bad as if the entire second grade was expected to go.

But I do understand the issue, especially if this is a public school. Having a yearly, traditional field trip to see The Nutcracker is part and parcel of the old "Christmas and Christianity is the American default" problem.

Young children are very easily influenced by the presentation of something as the norm, and something as beautiful and exciting as the image of Christmas in the Nutcracker can go a long way to making kids whose families don't celebrate Christmas feel like those who do have magic worth craving.

So, as secular and innocent as the Nutcracker is, thinking of it as automatically being for everyone, and having a public-school-sanctioned trip, during the school day, does trouble me, as does Fox News mocking people who might be concerned about it.

FTR, I am not anti-Nutcracker or anti-Christmas - not a Grinch at all. I'm teaching lots of Christmas music this month, and I made sure to encourage Christmas requests from those students whose families celebrate Christmas. The requests were both sacred (from LDS, Catholic and various Protestant traditions) and secular, and I'm enjoying helping students prepare for the musical part of their holiday celebration.

But that's all because these are private piano students -- when I taught in a public primary school, I ignored Christmas altogether.

[VVV]

Ummm, am I on Free Jinger or Fox News right now?

Parents didn't want their public school children taken to a play with religious undertones. They have a right to complain. There is nothing about it being evil.

Once again, the completely idiotic and harmful idea of "secular christmas" is being pushed. Christmas/Christians are not the default.

There is nothing remotely religious about the Nutcracker. It is a classic Western art piece that happens to be set at a Christmas party where there is a (magic) tree. There certainly are subliminal sexual overtones, which I suppose a few might find objectionable, if they are looking for something to object to.

One might as well complain about one's children being taken on a field trip to an art museum where there are great masters including those with religious themes (although once again there is zero religious content in the Nutcracker). Many great Western works of art refer directly or indirectly to one of the most widely celebrated holidays in Western culture.

[misslady]

unless the nutcracker has changed drastically since i last saw it performed by the atlanta ballet company, there are no religious undertones to it that i recall. i've read a couple of book versions, and they had varying degrees of religion in them (not much, just appropriate for the time period it was set in) but the actual ballets? nope.

I think this falls under "is Christmas a secular holiday?" For some people, yeah, sure, everybody does it, they see it as there's lots of stuff that Christianity "adapted" over time like trees and stuff and they have a nice, non-religious family time. For other people who may or may not be celebrating a different religious holiday at this time of year, Christmas is for Christians, and that includes all things Christmas related, including "secular Christmas" stuff like The Nutcracker. Especially when Christmas starts on November 1 in the retail world. It gets wearying.

[browncoatslytherin]

I think this falls under "is Christmas a secular holiday?" For some people, yeah, sure, everybody does it, they see it as there's lots of stuff that Christianity "adapted" over time like trees and stuff and they have a nice, non-religious family time. For other people who may or may not be celebrating a different religious holiday at this time of year, Christmas is for Christians, and that includes all things Christmas related, including "secular Christmas" stuff like The Nutcracker.

i see your point, but i still disagree that things like the nutcracker should be considered to have religious undertones. i understand that "secular christmas" is still christmas, but it's really just a setting. a base, if you will. it's a story about a toy present come to life. spin it any way you want, that's what it is. and, myself, i celebrate yule, not christmas. but i still don't consider the nutcracker to have religious undertones, despite christmas trees and the like in them. like i said, if anything it's just reflective of the time period the story is set in. if the story was set in the british isles during the time of the celts, i'd expect a pagan slant to it. but even still the story itself has nothing to do with the religious aspects of the holiday and i think that is what should be taken into consideration. i don't have to be of a particular religion or culture in order to enjoy a story set in that culture. and trust me, i'm usually one of the first ones to cry foul against christian bias, but sometimes a ballet is just a ballet.

[BrownieMomma]

Young children are very easily influenced by the presentation of something as the norm, and something as beautiful and exciting as the image of Christmas in the Nutcracker can go a long way to making kids whose families don't celebrate Christmas feel like those who do have magic worth craving.

Isn't this what parenting is for? To teach your child how to cope with things in life that seem unfair?

There's not a single Christian theme in Nutcracker, unless I have somehow just missed it.

And to ignore the largest holiday as if it doesn't exist - that's pushing an agenda too.

Children who grow up in families that do not celebrate Christmas, for whatever reason, have a lot to deal with at the end of each year. That's the choice the parents make, and the parents should be the one teaching their own children how to deal with it, not trying to force the rest of society to conform to them.

edited to fix quote marks

[browncoatslytherin]

One might as well complain about one's children being taken on a field trip to an art museum where there are great masters including those with religious themes (although once again there is zero religious content in the Nutcracker). Many great Western works of art refer directly or indirectly to one of the most widely celebrated holidays in Western culture.

that is a very good and interesting point to consider. at certain periods in art, only religious and religious-related art was allowed, aside from portraits of royalty. but they are beautiful, timeless, and worth studying to anyone. to deny someone the chance to learn about the art itself, the artist, and the time period it was from i think is detrimental.

[artdecades]

There is nothing remotely religious about the Nutcracker. It is a classic Western art piece that happens to be set at a Christmas party where there is a (magic) tree. There certainly are subliminal sexual overtones, which I suppose a few might find objectionable, if they are looking for something to object to.

One might as well complain about one's children being taken on a field trip to an art museum where there are great masters including those with religious themes (although once again there is zero religious content in the Nutcracker). Many great Western works of art refer directly or indirectly to one of the most widely celebrated holidays in Western culture.

Right. I forgot that the Western World = Christian default. Being set at a party that just happens to be celebrating a Christian holy day doesn't mean anything because thats what Westerners do. Same with the tree. It comes alive because of magic that may or may not have to do with the magic of Christmas which is totally not about Jesus or anything.

And I feel you are misrepresenting the situation by comparing it to an art museum. There are many different kinds of museums that house different kinds of objects. If you are talking about encyclopedic art museums, they often due have biases towards Western, christian artwork and there are many books and articles in museology that discuss this. However, tours are often tailored to particular subjects (IE, old masters or impressionism or "gems of the museum"). There are multiple, varied works that people are exposed to, as opposed to a single presentation in a theater.

Isn't this what parenting is for? To teach your child how to cope with things in life that seem unfair?

There's not a single Christian theme in Nutcracker, unless I have somehow just missed it.

And to ignore the largest holiday as if it doesn't exist - that's pushing an agenda too.

Children who grow up in families that do not celebrate Christmas, for whatever reason, have a lot to deal with at the end of each year. That's the choice the parents make, and the parents should be the one teaching their own children how to deal with it, not trying to force the rest of society to conform to them.

edited to fix quote marks

So its the choice of a Muslim or Jewish family to not give their children Christmas when it is not a holiday celebrated by their cultures? And we need to just accept that Christian society makes those who do not celebrate christmas feel lesser than and Othered? In what way do non-Christians attempt to make the rest of society (the poor oppressed Christians) conform?

Its the other way around. This thread is evidence of that. You are saying that there is nothing Christian about a play that takes place around a Christmas celebration. Christmas is Christian. And trying to say otherwise is expecting that non-christians conform and agree to the idea of a "secular" christmas at the loss of our own culture and values.

[Anny Nym]

I think this falls under "is Christmas a secular holiday?" For some people, yeah, sure, everybody does it, they see it as there's lots of stuff that Christianity "adapted" over time like trees and stuff and they have a nice, non-religious family time. For other people who may or may not be celebrating a different religious holiday at this time of year, Christmas is for Christians, and that includes all things Christmas related, including "secular Christmas" stuff like The Nutcracker. Especially when Christmas starts on November 1 in the retail world. It gets wearying.

Is it really about "secular Christmas"? Isn´t that like putting a heavy religious layer on it, a layer that never existed in the original classic fairy tale or ballet ?

Please don´t be offended, but I have to ask: How do you handle that with classics in general then? Shakespeare, Dickens, almost every russian author, classical music... to only make a few examples. They all refer in some way to christianity and christian celebrations within its content.

Has it all be taken so dead-pan-serious? Shouldn´t we just chill a bit and let the kids enjoy watching a children´s ballet?

We also enjoy Holi colour happenings in summer, ´cause it´s just plain fun and my children watched a Schlamasel-Masel puppet show last year one day after Krampus & Nikolaus. None of our heads did drop off :lol:

[Anny Nym]

{L_OFFTOPIC} :

... i celebrate yule, not christmas. ...

I hope you don´t mind - but I just have to ask: How do you celebrate Yule *supercurious*

[browncoatslytherin]

anny nym (tapatalk isn't letting me quote posts. boo, tapatalk, boo) - it depends on the year and what is happening. i don't always decorate with a tree but i try to get some sort of evergreen to decorate with. food and family, love all around. meaningful gifts for some. i'm not usually in a place with a fireplace or pit for a yule log, but i improvise with a wood candle holder. oh yes, LOTS of candles. and besides praying to my patron god and goddess, i'll pray to one appropriate to the season as well - isis for me, but any god or goddess associated with rebirth/new life is suitable.