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THe most persecuted minority in the world : the rohingya


Marianne

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Sadly, I don't hear a lot in the news about the Rohingyas. They are a muslim community in Myanmar, who are said to be "the most persecuted minority in the world" by the ONU. A lot of people fear a new genocide.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/30/opini ... .html?_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014 ... ntary.html

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2014/1 ... l?ref=asia

http://www.newsweek.com/rohingya-relati ... sia-284719

http://www.buzzfeed.com/hayesbrown/ther ... ma-in-asia

http://www.alternatives-economiques.fr/ ... 61143.html (in french)

http://ec.europa.eu/echo/files/aid/coun ... gya_en.pdf

I've search, i've not find ONE french TV reportage about the rohingya. For our medias, they did not exist :evil:

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I've never heard of them. I can't really follow the links, as I'm at work. If you have a minute, could you post a little about their story? And how did you find out about them?

Thanks

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I hadn't heard of this, either. That's absolutely appalling. I can think of other situations in which countries tried to deport millions of people... And we all know those ended in slaughter.

I find it really depressing how the western world focuses on a few high-visibility issues, like Palestine, and completely ignores less politically-promoted atrocities like this or North Korea.

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So, BrownieMama :

Since the middle-age, buddhist and muslims (called Rohingya since 1700's) lived in Arakan, now a part of Myanmar.

In 1971, 200 000 rohingya run away to Bengladesh because of a violent repression from the Myanmar army against "foreign element"

1982 : A law on nationality said that un member of a minority who live in the country after the first UK-Myanmar war can't have the Myanmar nationality. The UN said that the Rohingya are stateless. A lot of people from Myanmar see them as illegal immigrant, even if their family are here since century.

May/june 2012 : Thee muslisms raped a women in Ramri, in the Arakan. Ten muslisms are killed for punition. There's riots; 125 000 rohingyas are put in camp.

20 march 2013 : Muslims are a target. their houses and mosque are burnt and destroyed. The NGO who help muslisms are also destroyed by the buddhist.

January 2014 : Proposition of law to forbid inter-religious wedding.

Now, more than 140 000 Rohingya are in camp, without food, water, or doctor. There's starvation case.

Here's from buzzfeed : Hardline Buddhists like monk Wirathu, who has referred to himself as the “Burmese bin Laden,†have helped to stir up resentment against the minority Muslim population, including the Rohingya. Clashes have left villages burned and thousands displaced.

In Rakhine state, the site of the worst ethnic violence against the Rohingya and other Muslims, the government has limited the number of children they can legally have to two.

Aung San Suu Kyi believes there “is no Rohingya ethnic group."

Now, according to the New York Times, the Burmese government has given the Rohingya a choice: “Prove your family has lived [in Burma] for more than 60 years and qualify for second-class citizenship, or be placed in camps and face deportation.â€" (

According to a NGO, "All the preconditions for genocide are met."

I've find about them in a french weekly who translate article from foreign newspaper. They had translated something from Newsweek about the Rohingya this week.

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Thank you Marianne, I appreciate that you took the time to write all that out, it's informative.

I had no idea of any of this. Rarely do I remember that even with the problems and struggles I have in my life, I still live in a place that is relatively safe, I am free to do so many things, I can turn on a faucet for water and flush a toilet. It's so self-centered to lament my first world problems when there really is such a difference in life in other parts of the world.

Very humbling, those people, I cannot even imagine living under those conditions. Makes my heart ache to think of their days and nights, there is no relief for their suffering.

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Marianne, you always open so interesting and challenging threads!

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
put under spoiler bec. personal reflections.

Now, more than 140 000 Rohingya are in camp, without food, water, or doctor. There's starvation case... Clashes have left villages burned and thousands displaced.

It is always very triggering for me to read such sentences. It reminds me of the cruel stories I heard as a child about the treks of displaced from a country of (by then) Soviet territory to my country. Until the end of the 80s, my family lived at my grandparents property and there also lived a old relative "in Gnadenbrot"/"in charity shelter" who was one of them. Her mother died while the march. The guards forced the people to keep going if one collapsed and to step on them. Then they were forced into big warehouses near to the borders with no water or food for days. Her little brother died there in her arms, crying for his mother, she told.

She had music cassettes with folk songs in her room and one was a favorite, because it was about "back home". I still know the refrain.

I also remember her once telling to my mother " Why did the Lord let me get so old, why can´t he finally take me?" In retrospective, I think, the only reason why she didn´t away with herself was her faith.

The Rohingya case reminds us of all the "forgotten genocides", and how the slogan "Never again!" was spurned and trampled on literally immediatly after the big catastrophe of the 20th century and is still today, in the 21st century.

I also wonder if the silence of the mass medias about this crimes (once again!) is caused by the fact that it´s a genocide against muslims, who currently are given the "culprit/bad people" card due to the whole ISIS issue?

How often do you really see a critical reflection of the buddhist faith, instead of the "smiling monks in colorful robes" clichee´?

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Marianne, you always open so interesting and challenging threads!

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
put under spoiler bec. personal reflections.

It is always very triggering for me to read such sentences. It reminds me of the cruel stories I heard as a child about the treks of displaced from a country of (by then) Soviet territory to my country. Until the end of the 80s, my family lived at my grandparents property and there also lived a old relative "in Gnadenbrot"/"in charity shelter" who was one of them. Her mother died while the march. The guards forced the people to keep going if one collapsed and to step on them. Then they were forced into big warehouses near to the borders with no water or food for days. Her little brother died there in her arms, crying for his mother, she told.

She had music cassettes with folk songs in her room and one was a favorite, because it was about "back home". I still know the refrain.

I also remember her once telling to my mother " Why did the Lord let me get so old, why can´t he finally take me?" In retrospective, I think, the only reason why she didn´t away with herself was her faith.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
That's a very sad story. This is a part of EUrope who have live too much horrible things.

I knew an old lady (she's from my family, but not very close in the family three), during the Retirada, she was put in concentration camp (yes, there was concentration camp in France, but only for Spanish republican, with a mortality rate of 60% because of dysentery and malaria. She was afraid of rain and mud. When it rains, or when there was mud, you will find her inside, nearly crying. When was asked her why, she said : "The mud, in the camp, it was everywhere. everywhere. And the rain... It's always after the rain that someone I knew died. One drop, one death." This poor lady lost all her family in concentration camp - in France and in Dachau.

The Rohingya case reminds us of all the "forgotten genocides", and how the slogan "Never again!" was spurned and trampled on literally immediatly after the big catastrophe of the 20th century and is still today, in the 21st century.

When I was in high school, someone speak about a pseudo "genocide of Vendée" (a part of France who was against the révolution in 1789). our teacher thought it was time to learn what a genocide was. He give us a lessons on the legal definition of genocide, ethnic cleansing, and war.

And then was the test. There was 20 massacre that happened between 1914 and now and we had to tell if it was a genocide, ethnic cleansing or just war victims. Genocide (armenian, jewish, rwandan, red khmer, and maybe other), A LOT of ethnic cleansing, and war. There was a detailed description - how many died (I remember the 20% of the population in Cambodge. 20%.), how they died, rape, torture, starvation, camp. It speak also about goulag, war in Sierra Leone, Yougoslavie... I remember the silence in my class while we understood that genocide did not stopped after 1945. The horror. We all writed "genocide - ethnic cleansing - war", and there was at least two people crying. No one ever talked about it, but this has a great impact us.

I also wonder if the silence of the mass medias about this crimes (once again!) is caused by the fact that it´s a genocide against muslims, who currently are given the "culprit/bad people" card due to the whole ISIS issue?

How often do you really see a critical reflection of the buddhist faith, instead of the "smiling monks in colorful robes" clichee´?

In France, here's how media think :

Christian : all christian are catholic. They are BAD. Christians persecuted in the Middle East and in India? Why take care when you can leave the extreme right organizations to do it ?

Judaism : *insert shameful silence*

Muslims : BAD. TERRORIST.

Buddhist : They are good because we're too lazy to try to understand a very different culture.

I am proud to say that "my" political leader, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, has repeatedly criticized the attitude of media face to Buddhism (he was speaking about muslims persecution, I think, and about the concept of theocracy in Tibet) :mrgreen: But yes, I never heard a an explanation and critique of Buddhism, when it's done for Christianism, Judaism and Islam.

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{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
That's a very sad story. This is a part of EUrope who have live too much horrible things.

I knew an old lady (she's from my family, but not very close in the family three), during the Retirada, she was put in concentration camp (yes, there was concentration camp in France, but only for Spanish republican, with a mortality rate of 60% because of dysentery and malaria. She was afraid of rain and mud. When it rains, or when there was mud, you will find her inside, nearly crying. When was asked her why, she said : "The mud, in the camp, it was everywhere. everywhere. And the rain... It's always after the rain that someone I knew died. One drop, one death." This poor lady lost all her family in concentration camp - in France and in Dachau.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
Poor lady. Did she ever have another family of her own later? Was she in D. too?

I have have heard virtually nothing of Retirada in school, and there seems to be very few english material on this issue - which is a shame, frankly! Did spanish victims get reparations from France? Or from the time after Franco´s death? My one grandfather, which I told you in the other thread (which is still need to answer, sorry :embarrassed:) he was a engineer for a austrian steel company and did speak more languages, this is why he was often abroad in Spain, he said alot of american agents and agents from some ...prominent... secret agencies did stroll around in Franco´s Spain, giving the "old veterans" who fled from the Allies after 45´ to Franco-Spain new papers and recruiting them for their agencies, fully knowing about what they did and who they were. Everyone did know about it. And there was alot of gold...I don´t know if this is all to believe? You know grandfathers, they like to pad stories sometimes. But on the other hand, there is always some truth in this things, no?

When I was in high school, someone speak about a pseudo "genocide of Vendée" (a part of France who was against the révolution in 1789). our teacher thought it was time to learn what a genocide was. He give us a lessons on the legal definition of genocide, ethnic cleansing, and war.

And then was the test. There was 20 massacre that happened between 1914 and now and we had to tell if it was a genocide, ethnic cleansing or just war victims. Genocide (armenian, jewish, rwandan, red khmer, and maybe other), A LOT of ethnic cleansing, and war. There was a detailed description - how many died (I remember the 20% of the population in Cambodge. 20%.), how they died, rape, torture, starvation, camp. It speak also about goulag, war in Sierra Leone, Yougoslavie... I remember the silence in my class while we understood that genocide did not stopped after 1945. The horror. We all writed "genocide - ethnic cleansing - war", and there was at least two people crying. No one ever talked about it, but this has a great impact us.

Seems this was a very dedicated teacher. This is always so important, as the issue of genocides, ethnic cleansing and war needs to be done very elaborate in school. There are alot of talk going on lately about the fact how this needs to be handled on a more in-depht context along the Elternvereine/parent-teacher-associations in my country. I am in my oldest daughter´s parent PTA and and I hear alot about this topic (though not particular with mine, we are "just" in preschool now. That will take a couple of years from now on).

My nephew´s class just organized a visual week and watched different relevant films and did a project with pedagogic material for each film: It was "Schindler´s list", "Come See the paradise" (about us-internation camps), a documentary about Stalin´s gulags and "Wolfskinder" a very recent german movie about the left-behind children of deported ethnic-german minorities in east-european countries right after the war. It was in cinemas.

He was very motivated and keen on the material, but my sister-in-law said, it might have been too much in too short time...

In France, here's how media think :

Christian : all christian are catholic. They are BAD. Christians persecuted in the Middle East and in India? Why take care when you can leave the extreme right organizations to do it ?

Judaism : *insert shameful silence*

Muslims : BAD. TERRORIST.

Buddhist : They are good because we're too lazy to try to understand a very different culture.

Austrian main media:

Christian: We are catholics - austrian catholics! That is good for tourism :mrgreen: But much more important is to talk about which politican is not only a liberal or conservative catholic, but in a catholic fraternity! In which fraternity is he? What is his fraternity name? What are his fraternity colours? Was the fraternity house built before 1500 or before 1700? How does the fraternity crest look like? Do they have a Dollfuß portrait? What wood is the portrait´s frame made of? How can the entire world not be interested in this smoking hot topic of who has a Dollfuß portrait in his office and who not?! Also, why is there still no austrian pope?

Around christmas we MAY bring one article about christian refugees from the Middle East , but only if we aren´t currently busy with fraternities.

Judaism: The situation is very ambivalent. In case of doubt, bring a picture series about food or pretty buildings.

Muslims: The situation is very ambivalent. In case of doubt, bring a picture series about food or pretty buildings.

Buddhists: THE DALAI LAMA WAS IN CORINTHIA, HEINRICH HARRER WAS AUSTRIAN AND HE MET THE DALAI LAMA ONCE TOO, SO THE DALAI LAMA IS BASICALLY AUSTRIAN!

I am proud to say that "my" political leader, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, has repeatedly criticized the attitude of media face to Buddhism (he was speaking about muslims persecution, I think, and about the concept of theocracy in Tibet) :mrgreen: But yes, I never heard a an explanation and critique of Buddhism, when it's done for Christianism, Judaism and Islam.

I think I have to research Jean-Luc Mélenchon!

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{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
Poor lady. Did she ever have another family of her own later? Was she in D. too?

I have have heard virtually nothing of Retirada in school, and there seems to be very few english material on this issue - which is a shame, frankly! Did spanish victims get reparations from France? Or from the time after Franco´s death? My one grandfather, which I told you in the other thread (which is still need to answer, sorry :embarrassed:) he was a engineer for a austrian steel company and did speak more languages, this is why he was often abroad in Spain, he said alot of american agents and agents from some ...prominent... secret agencies did stroll around in Franco´s Spain, giving the "old veterans" who fled from the Allies after 45´ to Franco-Spain new papers and recruiting them for their agencies, fully knowing about what they did and who they were. Everyone did know about it. And there was alot of gold...I don´t know if this is all to believe? You know grandfathers, they like to pad stories sometimes. But on the other hand, there is always some truth in this things, no?

[hiddent]

She have her own family after the war, and she was not in a camp. There was a lot of solidarity in her city.

You know, I'm sure in the North of France (let's say, above the Garonne...), nobody know about the Retirada ! It is regional history. I've never heard about reparation from France, but I can't remember one time in our history where we give reparation to our victim. We just say "sorry, let's forget this !"

I do not know, but for me, what your grandfather told seems true. Recently, we had evidence that the CIA / FBI / NSA ( I always confused them ) had recruited former Nazis to their services during the cold war. And they gave the power to Pinochet. So recruit a Franco-friends is nothing ! I mean, Hoover was more close to Franco than Mandela [/hidden]

Seems this was a very dedicated teacher. This is always so important, as the issue of genocides, ethnic cleansing and war needs to be done very elaborate in school. There are alot of talk going on lately about the fact how this needs to be handled on a more in-depht context along the Elternvereine/parent-teacher-associations in my country. I am in my oldest daughter´s parent PTA and and I hear alot about this topic (though not particular with mine, we are "just" in preschool now. That will take a couple of years from now on).

My nephew´s class just organized a visual week and watched different relevant films and did a project with pedagogic material for each film: It was "Schindler´s list", "Come See the paradise" (about us-internation camps), a documentary about Stalin´s gulags and "Wolfskinder" a very recent german movie about the left-behind children of deported ethnic-german minorities in east-european countries right after the war. It was in cinemas.

He was very motivated and keen on the material, but my sister-in-law said, it might have been too much in too short time...

The project seems interesting. It's a lot in a short time, but children don't have 20hours-day of school !

But when we educate children on this, we often forget one thing: the origin. Example : We learn that Hitler was anti-Semitic. He massacred Jews ( and gays and gypsies, and the Communists ... ). But why? Where does anti-Semitism come from ? Why Hitler was elected ? It is the movement of Pan-Germanism, so it dates back to 1900 (I think ? I sucks at XIX/XX century history).

Children don't only need to learn what hapenned, but also why.

Austrian main media:

Christian: We are catholics - austrian catholics! That is good for tourism :mrgreen: But much more important is to talk about which politican is not only a liberal or conservative catholic, but in a catholic fraternity! In which fraternity is he? What is his fraternity name? What are his fraternity colours? Was the fraternity house built before 1500 or before 1700? How does the fraternity crest look like? Do they have a Dollfuß portrait? What wood is the portrait´s frame made of? How can the entire world not be interested in this smoking hot topic of who has a Dollfuß portrait in his office and who not?! Also, why is there still no austrian pope?

Around christmas we MAY bring one article about christian refugees from the Middle East , but only if we aren´t currently busy with fraternities.

I can't stop laughing :lol:

Also, there's no austrian pope because Benedict XVI was Bavarian, and Bavaria is nearly the same than Austria (i'm joking of course !)

Judaism: The situation is very ambivalent. In case of doubt, bring a picture series about food or pretty buildings.

Muslims: The situation is very ambivalent. In case of doubt, bring a picture series about food or pretty buildings.

Buddhists: THE DALAI LAMA WAS IN CORINTHIA, HEINRICH HARRER WAS AUSTRIAN AND HE MET THE DALAI LAMA ONCE TOO, SO THE DALAI LAMA IS BASICALLY AUSTRIAN!

Can't stop laughing bis :lol: I'm thinking about the Dalai Lama eating a fleishknödel (do you write it like this ?).

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