"Samaritan Ministries" bull

[starfish]

It smacks of a multi-level marketing scam to me.

It is completely unregulated .....

[Maggie Mae]

How exactly do they get away without being regulated like insurance companies? Does sticking the word "ministry" in the name just automatically make them free from those regulations? Do they say how much money they take compared to how much they send to customers? It just seems like a scam all the way around.

They are considered a "charity" http://www.samaritanministries.org/blog/?p=1410

I wouldn't trust it. You send money directly to the family in need. They publish a newsletter with the person in needs name and address, and the people who pledge x dollars send to to that person. How do you know if all the people who are supposed to send you $200 actually sent it? What if they said they sent it, but then said "Well, she's a sinner and I don't pay for sin"? How is SM making any money to publish this newsletter? Are you supposed to write out checks to various people? I'll still with my online billing Health Insurance, thank you.

[hoipolloi]

I wouldn't trust it. You send money directly to the family in need. They publish a newsletter with the person in needs name and address, and the people who pledge x dollars send to to that person. How do you know if all the people who are supposed to send you $200 actually sent it? What if they said they sent it, but then said "Well, she's a sinner and I don't pay for sin"? How is SM making any money to publish this newsletter? Are you supposed to write out checks to various people? I'll still with my online billing Health Insurance, thank you.

Also, wouldn't the money received be income, at least in the view of the IRS? So, are the recipients required or supposed to report these funds as income, which could add up to quite a bit if Pharisee Ministries' (love that name!) participants actually pay out all these claims?

[treemom]

Also, wouldn't the money received be income, at least in the view of the IRS? So, are the recipients required or supposed to report these funds as income, which could add up to quite a bit if Pharisee Ministries' (love that name!) participants actually pay out all these claims?

No, not nessecarily . You gave gifts up to a certain amount. It used to be 10k a year per giver to receiver

[hoipolloi]

No, not nessecarily . You gave gifts up to a certain amount. It used to be 10k a year per giver to receiver

So everyone who pays out can then deduct the full amount of their direct "donations" to others from their taxes?

[formergothardite]

Am I understanding it correctly that no money goes directly to Pharasee Ministries? They just some how find the money to mail monthly newsletters and have all volunteers who coordinate who gets paid what? For example, if I took my daughter to the doctor, I would have to pay up front (that is their rule on people with no insurance), submit the bill to SM, wait for them to put together a newsletter and mail it out, hope that they approve whatever it was that had to get done, and then hope that the people who were supposed to mail me a check actually do it and that the check doesn't get lost in the mail or anything like that? Seems like there is a lot that could go wrong there.

[dianapavelovna]

There's an annual fee of $175 that goes straight to HQ, if I read the FAQ correctly.

[formergothardite]

I wonder how much money they take in with that annual fee? Do they have anywhere where they report their annual income?

[doggie]

someone posted the annual cost of running it. the head guy makes about 200k a year.

[hoipolloi]

Am I understanding it correctly that no money goes directly to Pharasee Ministries? They just some how find the money to mail monthly newsletters and have all volunteers who coordinate who gets paid what? For example, if I took my daughter to the doctor, I would have to pay up front (that is their rule on people with no insurance), submit the bill to SM, wait for them to put together a newsletter and mail it out, hope that they approve whatever it was that had to get done, and then hope that the people who were supposed to mail me a check actually do it and that the check doesn't get lost in the mail or anything like that? Seems like there is a lot that could go wrong there.

Well, in some cases at least, Pharisee Ministriies also refers its "clients" to or supplies a professional negotiator who tries to bargain down the amount(s) of charges already incurred. Here's an explanation on DIY negotiation by LiaS's Kim (frugalhacks.com/2010/03/11/negotiate-discount-medical-bills/) along with this final tip:

"There are also services that will help you negotiate a discount on larger bills. Samaritan recommends The Karis Group, which seems to be a free service. The Karis Group has also partnered with Christian Financial Ministries to provide a service which is not free, but is guaranteed to save you significant money on larger bills, making it very worthwhile. We have no experience with either service, but Dave Ramsey thinks highly of them and his recommendation means a lot to money-smart people."

Again, I ask why these people (who are otherwise totally self-righteous about earning & keeping their money, who hate taxes & despise anyone who receives tax money in the form of medicaid or welfare), why do they feel they are entitled to argue with medical service providers over charges already incurred & get them reduced?

[treemom]

So everyone who pays out can then deduct the full amount of their direct "donations" to others from their taxes?

No it isn't a deduction. You just don't have to claim it as income or pay gift tax as the receiver.

[treemom]

Uh. I listen to Dave Ramsey a lot. And have for many, many years. He would not recommend that service. He would think it is dumb to pay for negotiating you can do. I wonder if he reccs something else they do.

[demgirl]

I wonder, though... are the donations to people, or the yearly fee, deductible as charitable gifts? Because SM is a 501©3 organization, right?

[treemom]

I wonder, though... are the donations to people, or the yearly fee, deductible as charitable gifts? Because SM is a 501©3 organization, right?

No because donations to individuals are generally not deductible and there is a service you are getting from sm

For exmple my husband and I do a lot of black tie and other charitable events...since there is a meal only part of the ticket is deductible. They give us a tax receipt saying so. Or if you get a car wash by a 5013c it isn't deductible either because the amount you pay is normally the market value of the service or goods.

[dawniecakes]

Uh. I listen to Dave Ramsey a lot. And have for many, many years. He would not recommend that service. He would think it is dumb to pay for negotiating you can do. I wonder if he reccs something else they do.

Me too. I've only heard him endorse Samaritan's Purse, which is a totally different charity.

Also, when people call with health insurance questions, he does tell them to attempt to negotiate if they are uninsured, but then says they need to get insurance immediately, and if possible get an high-deductible HSA type plan because after the deductible (usually like $5K), everything is covered. So he says its good for either really healthy families that aren't in and out of the office all the time for minor stuff, or for someone who becomes very sick and would be hit hard with a traditional 80-20 type plan.

The only Google connections I could come up with were on Samaritan Ministries end. I think they are fans of Dave Ramsey, but I'm not sure it is vice versa except for that one random quote on their blog, which is vague to say the least.

Edited to add Dave's take on insurance from his website: http://www.daveramsey.com/article/how-t ... insurance/

[hoipolloi]

Uh. I listen to Dave Ramsey a lot. And have for many, many years. He would not recommend that service. He would think it is dumb to pay for negotiating you can do. I wonder if he reccs something else they do.

Adding to what dawniecakes said, my same friend Google brought the following "connection" between Dave Ramsey & the professional medical negotiators at Karis Group: http://www.chministries.org/links.aspx

From this, it looks like both Dave Ramsey & the Karis Group are affiliated with Christian Healthcare Ministries but not necessarily with each other.

Would be interesting to know if LiaS Kim actually heard Dave Ramsay make this recommendation or if his employees recommend this in the way they'll apparently give you referrals to insurance agents for medical insurance and so on that meet Dave's standards, whatever those are.

[dawniecakes]

I think Christian Healthcare Ministries is just promoting his program based on that link above. A lot of different organizations, schools and private businesses offer Dave Ramsey trainings and materials. Dave doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it, except he may have donated the materials, which isn't out of character.

[Shoobydoo]

Under ebil Obamacare, I think you can stay on your dad's insurance until you are 24 or 26, and with any luck and a cooperative Supreme Court, in 2014, you should be able to buy reasonable insurance on your own, if you don't have employee insurance.

Damn ebil guvmint for making health insurance available and affordable :clap:

Actually, no. We military brats still get cut off at 23 or college graduation, since thanks to the wars we've been fighting for the last 10 years the military is essentially broke. We're still kind of screwed until they get the rest of the system properly hammered out.