Damage Control and a Music Video

[LongDogMom]

There was an article on Starcasm this morning with a lot of quotes from the Duggars regarding the kissing pics and courtship and who would be possibly courting next. It was the quote about Jana that I found most interesting and I wonder if it's damage control because of all the articles on the internet lately about Jana and her slaveship:

 

"Jim Bob said John David’s twin sister Jana Duggar also has a lot of suitors, but the oldest Duggar daughter hasn’t felt like any of the men have been right for her.

“Jana is one of the prettiest girls in the world and one of the sweetest girls,†Jim Bob said. “I have gone to hear about each one, and so far she hasn’t felt that is the way the Lord is leading.â€

Jana added that she’s “enjoying watching her siblings fall in love and get married†and is content to help keep the Duggar house running smoothly.

“I just think for me I am just waiting and we’ll see,†Jana said. “When God brings that one along it will be his timing.â€" http://starcasm.net/archives/295920

 

I thought the remark about how Jana "is content to help keep the Duggar house running smoothly" as well as her saying how much she's "enjoying watching her siblings fall in love and get married" was said to counteract people saying that Jana looks unhappy, is being used (ie: bridesmaids dress alterations and ties), and gets too much piled on her via Michelle and Jim Bob. I think they have read or heard the comments and this is their way to fight back...especially getting Jana to say this in her "own words" by which I mean saying whatever Jim Bob told her to say.

 

The article also mentions John David (who says he is not courting yet), Jinger and Joseph and how they want to court in the same exact say as Jill and Jessa. Plus a Bates/Duggar music video of a Christian song (not sure who is singing, but he has a good voice) and the Duggars have a new YouTube channel, Duggar Studios which premiered the song. You can watch the video at the Starcasm link above.

[browncoatslytherin]

I think they have read or heard the comments and this is their way to fight back...especially getting Jana to say this in her "own words" by which I mean saying whatever Jim Bob told her to say.

exactly. the real critics know that we can't really trust whatever comes out of the j kids mouths to be what they really think. they've been programmed not to think, programmed to parrot back whatever their parents have said to them.

boob, if you're reading...we're not fooled :evil-eye:

[Sundaymorning]

I think with Jana, it's a bit of a double-edged sword.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think for a second that she could ever voice her real opinion in public or even in front of her whole family.

One the one hand, I think it's great how the public attention has shifted to Jana a bit and the fact that she is still single and heavily exploited by J'Chelle and Boob. But I just hope that they won't force her into a courtship with a man she doesn't really like just to show the world that she too gets married now.

I mean, it would be great for Jana to get out of the TTH asap, but she should be able to leave on her own devices.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I honestly don't believe that Jim Bob would force Jana, or any of his daughters, into a courtship. I think it just happened that Jessa and Jill happened to agree to courting at around the same time, and I don't think it was done for publicity. If they had done it for publicity only, I'm sure that JB would have started with Jana, not Jessa or Jill. JB seems to love his daughters A LOT and truly seems to want whatever makes them happy.

Michelle, well I'm not sure about her. I don't think she's going to be marrying off any girls she doesnt have to. But I also don't believe she's attached to them like she should be. She's always been rather hands off with her kids, but I think that's largely due to an untreated mental illness and/or repressed trauma that caused her to handle relationships in an unhealthy manner. I don't think she'd do anything like marrying her kids off for ratings. She's trying too hard to hold on to them so she can say "look at my 19 kids I birthed." As it is, she's having a hard time with that because Josh lives in DC now, and Jill's pregnant so she's not traveling around with the family as much as she could be.

I really believe that Jana hasn't found someone she's interested in. Maybe she never will, or maybe we will but she'll never be allowed to pursue that person. And I really do think she would be content just doing what she's been doing: it's comfortable, it's familiar, and it doesn't come with any transitions she's not ready to make.

[eh02]

I honestly don't believe that Jim Bob would force Jana, or any of his daughters, into a courtship.

Michelle, well I'm not sure about her. She's always been rather hands off with her kids, but I think that's largely due to an untreated mental illness and/or repressed trauma that caused her to handle relationships in an unhealthy manner.

I really believe that Jana hasn't found someone she's interested in.

I agree with almost all of this. Jim Bob does seem much more emotionally in tune with his kids. Sure, he can be a big old creep sometimes, but I think his intentions are good and his connection to them is sincere. I don't think he'd force any of them to marry, but I do think he'd push them in a certain direction, especially his daughters.

I have similar feelings about Michelle. It's just not normal to fixate on sexual shame, and "purity" to this extent. I mean, she's been married 30? years in a healthy, monogamous relationship. If anything, it should show their kids that it's actually very easy to have a good relationship without courting, and potentially that dating around actually helped Michelle (presumably because she ended up with Jim Bob and not the first "wrong" guys she dated).

She constantly looks like she is on some kind of pills. She's openly said she has a history of eating disorders if I remember right, which can be (but are not always) a manifestation of anxiety and obsessive compulsive tendencies in many people.

With Jana, I do have trouble believing she hasn't found anyone she's interested in. How many people make it to 24, almost 25, never having been in love? I know she's sheltered, but it's not like she is never around any men. I'd assume things have happened and just didn't work out.

[16strong]

I have always thought that J'chelle has to be medicated to appear in the semi-sane state she does on the show. The only life I have seen in her eyes is when she was spending one on one time with one of her sons and talked about trying to shoot at cars with slingshots when she was a kid, and when she accidentally peeled the paint off of the church wall with Kelly Bates.

I feel like somewhere in another dimension, there is a Michelle that didn't get married to Jim Bob, went to college, rode on motorcycles with punk rock boys, and had only two kids. She would have been the badass mom with a past whose stories got told to uproarious laughter at every family reunion. That's Michelle. She's a prankster, a rebel, and the life of every party. And I even think that somewhere under that facade, she's a very kind and gentle soul, a bit like Jill. But of course, all that got buried when she met Boob and ATI.

[OodOnTheLoo]

It sounds nice but the reality is Jana only has two choices. She can get married to someone who will expect her to start pumping out babies. Daddy won't let any other type talk to her. Or, she can stay and raise children she is invested in but will be doing way more than is fair to expect from an individual.

Oh, she is so happy to stay and run the household? Sure....

Fuck you JB and Michelle! Free Jana now!

[HuggleMonster]

I have to agree with the comments about Jana not being forced. If she was going to be, I assume it would have happened before. Especially when they had that lull in fodder for episodes.

If the quotes are genuine Jana feelings, I'm glad she doesn't feel the need to marry the first guy who comes sniffing around because her sisters are married.

Another, of quotes are genuine, I love what Jim Bob said about her. As creepy as he is, I'm glad that he can see what all of us can.

[VelociRapture]

I agree with the other people saying that they doubt Jana, or any of the girls, would be forced into a courtship or marriage they didn't want. For all his faults, I honestly think that JB loves all his kids very much and truly wants to see them be happy. No clue whether that means these quotes are legit or not, but I do have a tough time thinking that they would force Jana into a marriage.

And despite Michelle's faults, I think the same is true for her as well - I think the main reasons she appears to be so disconnected from the kids are because there are so many of them, she has a different way of expressing herself than her husband, and editing by TLC. She may have other motives for wanting to keep more of the girls home, but I do think she really is happy for them when they get married and leave as well.

With Michelle, I think her real personality is a lot more like Jill and Jana than we give her credit for. I think she has a lot more emotional depth than we get to see because it isn't what TLC wants us to see - they show just enough to keep leghumpers hooked on how great a mom she is, while keeping enough edited out to make the rest of us wonder why she is so emotionally disconnected to the kids. May not be entirely accurate, but it helps generate interest in the show.

I think having so many kids so close in age caused her to go into crisis mode and shut down that part of her personality for a while - maybe now that more of the kids are self-sufficient it will come out more.

[eh02]

I have always thought that J'chelle has to be medicated to appear in the semi-sane state she does on the show. The only life I have seen in her eyes is when she was spending one on one time with one of her sons and talked about trying to shoot at cars with slingshots when she was a kid, and when she accidentally peeled the paint off of the church wall with Kelly Bates.

Do you remember the episode where she goes to visit her best friend? That one that really shocked me. No baby voice. They actually seemed like two normal women you'd want to spend time with.

And it made me really sad. I agree that there have been times we've really gotten hints of a pretty cool, fun shadow of the Michelle that once was. I mean, she went skydiving! And when she peeled the paint at the church, she seemed silly and fun, you know? We don't see that very often.

It just makes me wonder what exactly has made her look back on the relatively small mistakes she made as a teenager with guilt, shame or regret. Something else must have happened to put her on this trajectory. Sure, it's not good to throw rocks at cars...but everyone does stupid things as a kid and a teenager, and I think making some of those mistakes is important. It seems like she'd rather her kids never even have the chance to make a mistake at all, and I think we need some of those bad experiences when we're young to give us perspective as adults.

[singsingsing]

With Jana, I do have trouble believing she hasn't found anyone she's interested in. How many people make it to 24, almost 25, never having been in love? I know she's sheltered, but it's not like she is never around any men. I'd assume things have happened and just didn't work out.

Really? I'm 26 and I've never been in love. I'm not sheltered at all. I don't think it's that abnormal. If you haven't met the right person, you haven't met the right person and there's not much you can do about it. I know some people seem to fall in love really easily, but that's not the case for everyone. I have no problem at all believing that she's rejected all the guys who've come her way so far, because I've had the same experience. She's 24, not 50.

[SassyPants]

I have said it many times on this forum. What this show has really shown me is that 2 parents can not sufficiently and successfully parent 19 children and produce a 100% sane, healthy, happy and functional yield. It's just not possible in a 24 hour day. In this regard, the Duggars mission has failed to prove what they claim.

I truly believe that as the oldest daughter in a patriarchal format, Jana has the seen and experienced first hand the good, the bad and the ugly of living in a mega family, and is doing her best to avoid that life without outright rebelling against her parents and the system in which she has been bathed. To a lesser extent, I believe the same about Josh. I doubt he and Anna will have kids in the double digits- at least I really hope they do not. IMO, in JB's fantasy world, each of these kids will have an opportunity similar to his with TLC, making a 20 kid family dobable, and we all know that is just not so. Most fundies live in poverty.

[eh02]

Really? I'm 26 and I've never been in love. I'm not sheltered at all. I don't think it's that abnormal. If you haven't met the right person, you haven't met the right person and there's not much you can do about it. I know some people seem to fall in love really easily, but that's not the case for everyone. I have no problem at all believing that she's rejected all the guys who've come her way so far, because I've had the same experience. She's 24, not 50.

Being 24 and not ever being in a serious relationship, or ever telling someone that you love them, is not unusual at all. But I do think that being 24 and never having had strong feelings for someone is rather unusual (though not impossible, and of course there's nothing wrong with it) so I would guess that Jana, and all of them, really, have had feelings for SOMEONE before.

I don't necessarily mean she's had some secret relationship or anything like that. I think most people can remember the first person they REALLY cared about, and for me it wasn't someone I was dating (and I was about 16). I would say that I loved him, though obviously in a very different way than, say, I love my current SO of many years. It may not a very substantive kind of love, but the feelings can be strong regardless.

I just think it's pretty unlikely Jana has NEVER been interested in someone before, whether casually or as a future spouse. She may be shy and very well could have never initiated any sort of relationship, but they're not robots, and they do tend to meet a lot of other "like-minded" people everywhere they go. Their network is much larger than most fundies, that's for sure, but they would absolutely never have an episode where the girls just sit around and talk about boys they might be interested in. And I don't think Jana would want to, anyway.

[SassyPants]

Do you remember the episode where she goes to visit her best friend? That one that really shocked me. No baby voice. They actually seemed like two normal women you'd want to spend time with.

And it made me really sad. I agree that there have been times we've really gotten hints of a pretty cool, fun shadow of the Michelle that once was. I mean, she went skydiving! And when she peeled the paint at the church, she seemed silly and fun, you know? We don't see that very often.

It just makes me wonder what exactly has made her look back on the relatively small mistakes she made as a teenager with guilt, shame or regret. Something else must have happened to put her on this trajectory. Sure, it's not good to throw rocks at cars...but everyone does stupid things as a kid and a teenager, and I think making some of those mistakes is important. It seems like she'd rather her kids never even have the chance to make a mistake at all, and I think we need some of those bad experiences when we're young to give us perspective as adults.

Although I did not see that episode, I agree every now and again you get that glimpse where you know that Michelle was just like any of us and then something happened. Now, JB, I do not think he had the typical teen experiences. I wonder if JB has and continues to chastise Michelle for her past life and experiences...how much of a past can a 17 yo actually have?

Better to allow them to make small mistakes along the way to provide growth and learning potential than to make big ones down the road.

[singsingsing]

Being 24 and not ever being in a serious relationship, or ever telling someone that you love them, is not unusual at all. But I do think that being 24 and never having had strong feelings for someone is rather unusual (though not impossible, and of course there's nothing wrong with it) so I would guess that Jana, and all of them, really, have had feelings for SOMEONE before.

I don't necessarily mean she's had some secret relationship or anything like that. I think most people can remember the first person they REALLY cared about, and for me it wasn't someone I was dating (and I was about 16). I would say that I loved him, though obviously in a very different way than, say, I love my current SO of many years. It may not a very substantive kind of love, but the feelings can be strong regardless.

I just think it's pretty unlikely Jana has NEVER been interested in someone before, whether casually or as a future spouse. She may be shy and very well could have never initiated any sort of relationship, but they're not robots, and they do tend to meet a lot of other "like-minded" people everywhere they go. Their network is much larger than most fundies, that's for sure, but they would absolutely never have an episode where the girls just sit around and talk about boys they might be interested in. And I don't think Jana would want to, anyway.

I agree with you on that, but having strong feelings for someone doesn't necessarily mean you want to date them. If you've got it in your mind that courtship almost certainly = marriage (or else intense embarrassment, shame, humiliation and hurt if it doesn't work out), I could see being very, very careful about who you accept, even if you might have feelings for them. Also in their world the women can only respond, so sadly she may have been really interested in a guy (or guys) but they never showed interest in turn.

[eh02]

I agree with you on that, but having strong feelings for someone doesn't necessarily mean you want to date them. If you've got it in your mind that courtship almost certainly = marriage (or else intense embarrassment, shame, humiliation and hurt if it doesn't work out), I could see being very, very careful about who you accept, even if you might have feelings for them. Also in their world the women can only respond, so sadly she may have been really interested in a guy (or guys) but they never showed interest in turn.

I definitely think you're right in that courtship is the ONLY context they've ever considered relationships, and that you can't remove that context from the situation. I think it's very likely she has genuinely never wanted to enter a courtship. In fact, it's probably very wise to not want it...because it's a disaster. Nobody should have to start going on first dates with someone with the assumption that they are going to get married on day 1. And I think it would be TERRIFYING to be expected to make quick judgments about men you barely know regarding whether you see them as your future spouse, particularly for someone who comes across a bit shy and reserved like Jana. Even "normal" dating is hard and feels like an immense amount of pressure, much less dating where you feel like you're instantly put on the fast track for marriage.

The Duggars basically say that since you will be sad for a little while if you break up, so you just shouldn't date at all. What an awful attitude about life overall, you know? It's truly depressing. Every time I hear Jill talk about how "some girls" date around and then "get their hearts broken" as if we should be pitying all of those poor women running around getting laid and having fun, I just want to hurl. They need to get over themselves!

[SassyPants]

I definitely think you're right in that courtship is the ONLY context they've ever considered relationships, and that you can't remove that context from the situation. I think it's very likely she has genuinely never wanted to enter a courtship. In fact, it's probably very wise to not want it...because it's a disaster. Nobody should have to start going on first dates with someone with the assumption that they are going to get married on day 1. And I think it would be TERRIFYING to be expected to make quick judgments about men you barely know regarding whether you see them as your future spouse, particularly for someone who comes across a bit shy and reserved like Jana. Even "normal" dating is hard and feels like an immense amount of pressure, much less dating where you feel like you're instantly put on the fast track for marriage.

The Duggars basically say that since you will be sad for a little while if you break up, so you just shouldn't date at all. What an awful attitude about life overall, you know? It's truly depressing. Every time I hear Jill talk about how "some girls" date around and then "get their hearts broken" as if we should be pitying all of those poor women running around getting laid and having fun, I just want to hurl. They need to get over themselves!

Also the quick timeframe in which courtships are expected to progress to marriage (to avoid sin in the camp) makes these relationships even more fragile and suspect in terms of longterm success.

UGGGGGGG- I loathe lack of common sense and logic.

[alba]

Although I did not see that episode, I agree every now and again you get that glimpse where you know that Michelle was just like any of us and then something happened. Now, JB, I do not think he had the typical teen experiences. I wonder if JB has and continues to chastise Michelle for her past life and experiences...how much of a past can a 17 yo actually have?

Better to allow them to make small mistakes along the way to provide growth and learning potential than to make big ones down the road.

I think I need to stop reading this thread now; it's making me feel sorry for Michelle :lol:

Michelle was an impressionable seventeen-year-old when she married Jim Bob. Her parents were moving to another state and she had a history of bulimia. While Jim Bob was hardly old and experienced himself, it would have been so easy for him to have manipulated and emotionally abused her for the past thirty years by bringing up her past "transgressions" and making her feel guilty and inferior. I don't think he did, because I think he's besotted with her, but sometimes the way he talks about premarital sexual sin makes me wonder just how much he thinks about the boys Michelle kissed before him.

[calimojo]

I have said it many times on this forum. What this show has really shown me is that 2 parents can not sufficiently and successfully parent 19 children and produce a 100% sane, healthy, happy and functional yield. It's just not possible in a 24 hour day. In this regard, the Duggars mission has failed to prove what they claim.

I truly believe that as the oldest daughter in a patriarchal format, Jana has the seen and experienced first hand the good, the bad and the ugly of living in a mega family, and is doing her best to avoid that life without outright rebelling against her parents and the system in which she has been bathed. To a lesser extent, I believe the same about Josh. I doubt he and Anna will have kids in the double digits- at least I really hope they do not. IMO, in JB's fantasy world, each of these kids will have an opportunity similar to his with TLC, making a 20 kid family dobable, and we all know that is just not so. Most fundies live in poverty.

While I pretty much agree with you, I have to just say that after watching the shows, and their pictures, etc, I really am more surprised that their kids are are as relatively well adjusted as they seem to be. Yes, I know they may be different off camera, but we do have evidence that they are allowed to be creative (the videos) and they do seem to have fun with one another.

Maybe the exposure to the world they have gotten courtesy of TLC has helped with that somehow?

When I read about a lot of the other fundie families it seems like many of their kids are really socially inept and backwards.

I don't support their lifestyle and I disagree with just about all they stand for, but all things considered, their kids are pretty good kids.

Another advantage for them that have had from TLC is that one or more of the kids ever do want to escape, when they are 18, they won't have trouble finding people who will help them. Even the leg humpers who love the show, would probably be empathetic to one of those kids and give them some help

[roddma]

I think even in the secular world people assume single=sad. From day one of our existence, we are groomed to find marriage partners. I think Jana may be content single, but the pressure is heavy in their circles to settle down. Not everyone is meant for marriage or wants a 24/7 partner. Fundies forget Jesus never married and resisted th advances of Mary Magdalene.

I do agree Michelle must be on some kind of medication. It makes her look like the 'calm mother' of 19 kids.