Benessa has a better chance than Dill

[BrownieMomma]

Derick made an off hand comment in one of his TH, something to the effect of "we know each other so deeply yet we don't know much about each other." I know that's not exactly what he said but it's close.

 

Being a prayer partner with JB for a year and a half is not the same thing as being in a relationship with Jill. How deep could Derick and Jill's conversations really go if those conversations are monitored and supervised?

 

I found myself surprised that Jill was so insecure-acting and such a klingon. I think she is as bossy and controlling as her parents. Now sometimes that dynamic works in a relationship and maybe it will work for Derick if Jill is the one actually wearing the pants in their family.

 

Jessa seems pretty bossy to Ben as well. I don't get the feel of controlling that I get from Jill, ofc bearing in mind this is all from a scripted and edited "reality" show.

 

Ben and Jessa's relationship started in real life. Yeah, that's a bit stalkerish that Ben went all that way to a church to meet her, but what church actually? Thought the Duggars home churched. I digress.

 

The point is that Ben and Jessa have spent the majority of their relationship actually in the company of one another, even when they were separated by living in their parent's home, Ben still came on weekends. Then the infamous move into the storage crate... but that did put Ben and Jessa in constant contact.

 

I'm sure it would have been hard for Ben to walk away past a certain point. His parents may have been pressuring him towards Jessa.

 

I think Ben got a better opportunity to know the real Jessa, whereas Derick has not had that at all. I suspect that one day Derick is going to wish he had not married Jill Duggar. It'll be Jessa that wishes she had not married Ben.

[SassyPants]

Derick made an off hand comment in one of his TH, something to the effect of "we know each other so deeply yet we don't know much about each other." I know that's not exactly what he said but it's close.

Being a prayer partner with JB for a year and a half is not the same thing as being in a relationship with Jill. How deep could Derick and Jill's conversations really go if those conversations are monitored and supervised?

I found myself surprised that Jill was so insecure-acting and such a klingon. I think she is as bossy and controlling as her parents. Now sometimes that dynamic works in a relationship and maybe it will work for Derick if Jill is the one actually wearing the pants in their family.

Jessa seems pretty bossy to Ben as well. I don't get the feel of controlling that I get from Jill, ofc bearing in mind this is all from a scripted and edited "reality" show.

Ben and Jessa's relationship started in real life. Yeah, that's a bit stalkerish that Ben went all that way to a church to meet her, but what church actually? Thought the Duggars home churched. I digress.

The point is that Ben and Jessa have spent the majority of their relationship actually in the company of one another, even when they were separated by living in their parent's home, Ben still came on weekends. Then the infamous move into the storage crate... but that did put Ben and Jessa in constant contact.

I'm sure it would have been hard for Ben to walk away past a certain point. His parents may have been pressuring him towards Jessa.

I think Ben got a better opportunity to know the real Jessa, whereas Derick has not had that at all. I suspect that one day Derick is going to wish he had not married Jill Duggar. It'll be Jessa that wishes she had not married Ben.

I tend to agree with your last statement. Jill seemed insecure this past season. I guess we'll have to wait and see if Jessa is the same leading up to her wedding day- I tend to doubt it.

I hope Derick can rein Jill in...and I hope Jessa and Ben can go fundie light. Ben grew up in a home with more choices. Hopefully his young, healthy parents can help guide them in terms of more moderate behaviors.

Derick seems to be on his own. His mom is struggling with major health issues, his SF is not even mentioned and his brother does not present as all that supportive.

The lure of the Duggar fame seems to come with a huge, metal, sharp toothed trap. I tend to believe these men will regret ever getting involved.

[eh02]

Hm, I don't know. I think generally, knowing someone for a long time is a better predictor of your success in marriage, but I think Jill and Derick seem much more developmentally mature and ready to take on the actual work that goes into the partnership. I can see them being able to work the inevitable conflicts out peacefully. Also, I'm not sure if I'm totally convinced Jill hadn't known Derick longer than TLC disclosed. The show could have drastically changed the timeline.

I think, considering the speed at which fundies enter marriage, it is in Jill and Derick's favor that they had extremely specific goals for what they wanted in partners and neither seems to have compromised on any of the "big ticket" items. Jessa and Ben just somehow seemed to end up together by luck and I'm still not convinced they'll be good partners, or if either of them really knew what they wanted/needed in a partner at all besides being a Christian and good looking.

Ben just looks generally terrified and/or confused all the time, and Jessa never looks happy. The whole thing just feels off to me. I know some women just have resting bitch face (I've got it pretty bad myself) but Jessa just really doesn't look in love at all, and to look so flat when your relationship is still very new is a bad sign IMO.

Also, I think Derick seems a little more savvy to the TLC/Duggar relationship. He has done a great job at making himself liked by the audience and hasn't said anything to piss anyone off. Ben has that automatically going against him that he's this polarizing force that could potentially jeopardize their success.

[Georgiana]

I agree that Jill and Derrick are going to have issues. I think the things that seemed "cute" about Jill to D when he was overseas and first got back are now becoming overwhelming. Also, Jill is not exactly the woman he courted/fell in love with. He fell in love with a woman who had her own thing going, her own hopes, her own dreams. Someone who was pursuing her own interests and making her own name for herself. And then as soon as she gets married, she becomes a stay at home wife and soon to be mom. Sure, maybe they talked about it, but it's still a huge change from who she was before the wedding to after, and it happened basically instantly. I'd expect my husband to be upset if he fell in love with and dated a career woman only to have me quit my job once we're married. It's not about the job or the money or any of that, it's about the fact that this isn't who you fell in love with.

I also think Benessa will have issues. Their relationship just seems so immature, despite all the time they've spent together. I think it will be better if they move away from the Duggar compound to give themselves time to grow, but I just don't see this being a mature love as opposed to a teenage infatuation.

Really, I think the Duggars will do major damage to the courtship model as I don't see either union being happy.

[Four is Enough]

Ben looks confused and Jessa looks unhappy.

Perhaps it comes from the constant biting of the tongue. I would LOVE to hear that they've escaped and gone fundy-lite, and that they've just been "talking the talk" all along so they could get married and get the hell out.

[SassyPants]

Hm, I don't know. I think generally, knowing someone for a long time is a better predictor of your success in marriage, but I think Jill and Derick seem much more developmentally mature and ready to take on the actual work that goes into the partnership. I can see them being able to work the inevitable conflicts out peacefully. Also, I'm not sure if I'm totally convinced Jill hadn't known Derick longer than TLC disclosed. The show could have drastically changed the timeline.

I think, considering the speed at which fundies enter marriage, it is in Jill and Derick's favor that they had extremely specific goals for what they wanted in partners and neither seems to have compromised on any of the "big ticket" items. Jessa and Ben just somehow seemed to end up together by luck and I'm still not convinced they'll be good partners, or if either of them really knew what they wanted/needed in a partner at all besides being a Christian and good looking.

Ben just looks generally terrified and/or confused all the time, and Jessa never looks happy. The whole thing just feels off to me. I know some women just have resting bitch face (I've got it pretty bad myself) but Jessa just really doesn't look in love at all, and to look so flat when your relationship is still very new is a bad sign IMO.

Also, I think Derick seems a little more savvy to the TLC/Duggar relationship. He has done a great job at making himself liked by the audience and hasn't said anything to piss anyone off. Ben has that automatically going against him that he's this polarizing force that could potentially jeopardize their success.

Derick certainly has more life experiences and financial resources to fall back on, but he does not have the family support. Given different circumstances, his mom would likely be a huge grounding rod. I was shocked at the difference in Cathy's apparent health from the engagement show to the wedding episode. I hope that she makes a full recovery but she really did look sick and frail.

How sad for Derick. Right now, he needs a strong , supportive partner, not a ball and chain /taker around his neck.

Can you imagine how hard it was, on his wedding day, to have his mom so sick? Talk about being pulled in 2 different directions.

[eh02]

I'd expect my husband to be upset if he fell in love with and dated a career woman only to have me quit my job once we're married. It's not about the job or the money or any of that, it's about the fact that this isn't who you fell in love with.

I also think Benessa will have issues. Their relationship just seems so immature, despite all the time they've spent together. I think it will be better if they move away from the Duggar compound to give themselves time to grow, but I just don't see this being a mature love as opposed to a teenage infatuation.

I agree with you on Ben and Jessa. Definitely feels like teenage infatuation. Which of course, can turn into mature love with time - but it seems faaaar away from that right now.

But Jill? A career woman? :lol: I think we've been watching different shows. I don't think she ever even hinted to Derick she was going to be a "career woman" - an on and off again midwife, maybe, and someone who fills her free time volunteering or helping people, sure, but clearly if she wants to have endless babies, she's not going to be clocking in 60 hour weeks at the law office. They had agreed they'd homeschool and have a huge family, right? So I would assume that'd be Jill's "job" and that it was understood by both of them on day 1.

I think Derick's mom just looked rough because she had JUST had chemo the day before. She hasn't had chemo or surgeries since then, if I'm remembering right, so I'm sure she has gained her weight back, her hair is growing back etc. now.

[SassyPants]

I agree with you on Ben and Jessa. Definitely feels like teenage infatuation. Which of course, can turn into mature love with time - but it seems faaaar away from that right now.

But Jill? A career woman? :lol: I think we've been watching different shows. I don't think she ever even hinted to Derick she was going to be a "career woman" - an on and off again midwife, maybe, and someone who fills her free time volunteering or helping people, sure, but clearly if she wants to have endless babies, she's not going to be clocking in 60 hour weeks at the law office. They had agreed they'd homeschool and have a huge family, right? So I would assume that'd be Jill's "job" and that it was understood by both of them on day 1.

I think Derick's mom just looked rough because she had JUST had chemo the day before. She hasn't had chemo or surgeries since then, if I'm remembering right, so I'm sure she has gained her weight back, her hair is growing back etc. now.

I do not think a 25 yo man, especially one who grew up in a home with only one other sibling, has any idea of what "endless" babies entails.

My niece ad nephew, both 27 and religious, recently had a baby. She was starting medical residency and he was going to be a SAHD. Their little one is a couple of months old and he now has a nanny. And these are educated people, with resources.

Mr Dillard has no idea what endless babies means, and where will he learn before it's too late? Not from his mom, she did not have endless babies.

Personally, I think the key to success for these couples is birth control.

[EmmieJ]

I think it's hard to tell from the scripted show we see. However, my impression of Derick and Jill is: She seems very clingy. In the early stages of a relationship, when both partners are head over heels and usually on their best behavior, this can feel normal and romantic and wonderful. The person you've fallen for feels the same about you, and wants to spend every minute together. But in the long run -- that much need for constant closeness and attention from your partner is not healthy, and for most couples, not realistic. One or both of the parties goes to work; cannot spend every waking minute with their partner; and probably shouldn't need to constantly reassure the other person that they love them madly.

Maybe once Jill has her baby, she'll have another focus for her love and attention, and she'll ease up on Derick. I'm afraid that she expects that he'll find some way to be self-employed and therefore home all the time with her and the kids.

As to Jessa and Ben - maybe her practical spirit will mean that she won't expect marriage to be full of flowers and romance. Maybe that bodes well for the marriage. Maybe Ben will be comfortable with a wife that makes a lot of the decisions. Maybe as long as both of them keep up their good looks, they will feel satisfied in their marriage. Maybe they will be completely happy to be dependent on JimBob to support them and ensure they won't have to worry financially. If so, their marriage might actually be a success.

[HarleyQuinn]

Well, I definitely agree with the last paragraph! This is very interesting.

[BrownieMomma]

I think we'd all like to believe that Derick's more worldly upbringing gives him some kind of insulation against the craziness but he does strike me as a guy that isn't afraid of his own feelings.

I think Derick might have been really lonely and at a loss of what to do with himself as his missionary work in Nepal was winding down. We've never known what that work was and it wasn't shown on the show.

As an accountant, it means something to me that Derick stopped his education at a bachelor's and did not go on to pursue his CPA. In my state, that means grad school courses for sure, and usually another study course piled on top of schoolwork. School is not enough knowledge to pass the CPA, everyone I've ever known of has taken some kind of extra course like Becker or Gleim.

What this means to me is that Derick is not career driven. For an accountant to advance, must have a set of letters like CPA or MBA or MPA or some other masters degree.

I think the idea of a big, loving, Christian family might have really appealed to Derick. Somewhere along the way, his mother remarried and then was dx'd with cancer. Derick probably does not feel a sense of family with his stepfather, as he would with JB & M still married after all these years. Who knows how Derick and Dan really get along? They might get along okay but this does not mean they have a bromance type relationship.

I hope Jill is just terrified of her new life. Her world changed drastically, I mean she is used to sleeping with the sound of how many other people breathing in the same room? Then it's just her and Derick. She now has to manage time alone, when she never had that before. I said this on another thread, but does those kids, esp the girls, ever go anywhere alone? At all? How about a pizza run to town? I bet at least a howler and lost girl go along for the ride. I hope that it is all it is, and once Jill learns she is going to be okay in that big house by herself all day, that she will stop clinging so hard to Derick.

I do think Derick thought he was getting a missionary partner and my feeling is Jill will never do it. Those missionary trips were just glorified vacations that actually produced nothing in terms of improving anyone's life in any real way for the recipients. Flips flops for mountain treks tells you these trips were not to be taken seriously.

I think Ben is different. Ben doesn't have the same kind of "feels" that Derick does. He's much more a happy-go-lucky kind of guy. Ben is not really into self-analysis or self-awareness or self-perception.There will be enough residual influence from the show to buoy up Ben's life, I really think he will get some kind of preacher/speaker work, Ben and Jess are easy on the eyes and people will want to see them, esp if Jess has some cutie-patootie baby slung on her hip.

If the TLC train really does run dry before Ben is 30ish, there is always his own father to fall back on. IIRC, Ben's auto windshield repair business was an extension of his father's business.

Ben will never be disappointed in Jessa. I think Derick will, as he realizes the things that made Jill interesting, such as missions and midwifery, will disappear in a haze of babies in JB's McMansion in Arkansas. If Derick really truly had a heart for missions, Jill Duggar was probably not the best choice. Instead Derick will be stuck working at Walmart, not going anywhere careerwise, watching his world whittle down to Tonitown - and he will not be happy.

[singsingsing]

I think both couples have a good chance, but I definitely disagree on the general observations concerning Jessa and Ben around here, so take that for what it's worth. I also believe that Derick knew exactly who he was marrying and what he was getting into when he chose a Duggar for a bride.

[JenniferJuniper]

The only reason these couples stand good chances to stick together is because they are fundies. Their options are limited to ....well, nothing other than staying together.

Arranged marriages do sometimes work out. But marriage is tough enough when you already know someone well and have a sense of what to expect of that person. Each one of these young people has simply projected their own hopes and dreams about a partner onto their new spouse. And now starts the process of discovering reality. Toss in their families' patriarchal rules and I can see a lot of confusion and pain all around. Toss in tons of kids and things get that much more difficult. Heck, just toss in one squalling baby and things get hard. Being a mom is very different than being a sister mom.

Toss in a reality show and Jim Bob and all I can say is, Godspeed, kiddos.

[RosyDaisy]

I was shocked at the difference in Cathy's apparent health from the engagement show to the wedding episode.

This another (and more convincing) reason why I think TLC has fudged the timeline this season.

[fabkiwi06]

I also cosign on the timeline being fudged for both relationships. I'm half convinced that Jana and JD have someone waiting in the wings to be paraded out in the next few months as "just met".

Watching the past few clip shows, I think I've changed my opinion slightly of Jessa. Still not on board with this wedding... but I think she is really uncomfortable in front of other people/cameras - more so than the other girls. I think she's getting paraded out because she's known as the "pretty one" and she is insecure and uncomfortable about that. Maybe once she's finally alone with Ben, she is more "lovey" towards him? I hope so. As much fun as it is to snark, their options are limited and they deserve something that is at least semi-happy.

I stand by my thought that Derek wants a clingy wife and that Jill was just as clingy pre-engagement. I think with all the turmoil with his mother being sick, he likes that Jill is all about being Mrs. Wifey. Once Baby Dilly comes, that focus is gonna shift and she's gonna be a helicopter mother and Derek will have to eat lunch alone.

[eh02]

I'm half convinced that Jana and JD have someone waiting in the wings to be paraded out in the next few months as "just met".

Watching the past few clip shows, I think I've changed my opinion slightly of Jessa. Still not on board with this wedding... but I think she is really uncomfortable in front of other people/cameras - more so than the other girls. I think she's getting paraded out because she's known as the "pretty one" and she is insecure and uncomfortable about that. Maybe once she's finally alone with Ben, she is more "lovey" towards him? I hope so.

I stand by my thought that Derek wants a clingy wife and that Jill was just as clingy pre-engagement.

Yeah, I agree with all of this. With all of the jokes about John David needing a wife but, as far as I can remember, no jokes about Jana needing a husband. I really think they probably have someone in mind for at least John David. We all know John gets a lot more freedom - he mentioned going to Canada in the engagement episode? WTF was he doing in Canada? He sure wasn't there with his family, and there's not a doubt in my mind they don't make him take a chaperone with him on that airplane.

For Jessa, I agree that I think she is very uncomfortable being expected to "perform" for the camera (or for her parents). She's a walking eye roll on legs. I don't think she's insecure about being seen as the pretty one, personally, but I think she is very particular about how she wants to look and act on camera.

And again, I agree about Jill and Derick. Jill seems clingy, but it really isn't unusual to be clingy and want to spend every second with someone that early in the relationship. I do think they were "talking" for longer than we know, but since obviously Derick really was in Nepal, I do believe they hadn't actually spent much (or any) time together before he came back from his trip.

I don't think it really makes sense that people are so critical of all the cheesy things Derick and Jill do. Some people are just like that and it really makes them (both parties) happy, but even more common is couples who start out like this and then kind of transition to a more "normal" relationship that's maybe a bit less over the top. Personally, I think it's sweet to see them so in love, and I hope that they enjoy how exciting the beginnings of a relationship are without being too overwhelmed by the baby.

[SassyPants]

It had to have been hard to be emotional and lovey-dovey when you could not even hold hands or frontal hug.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think that Ben and Jessa are more real. As much as I don't think they are mature enough for marriage, and I often thought they weren't a good couple, the engagement episode seems to tell me that they do love eachother. I think it just takes Jessa a while to warm up to people, and they are awkward on camera as Ben isn't used to it, and Jessa hates it. Jessa may not be emotional, but she can love, just doesn't outwardly show it as much....and maybe Ben has learned to appreciate Jessa for the snark and sarcasm. I think he at least accepts that he is not getting a submissive robot who sleeps with him and cleans the house.

I find them more real than Jill and Derick. Jill just seems too perfect, and its hard for me to relate to her, but Jessa seems real and relatable. She isn't perfect, she is a flawed person like we all are, and despite not showing much emotion, she shows more personality than anyone else on the show.

I think Jessa is going to be the first to leave fundamentalism. She already held hands before engagement and hugged before marriage. She can hold her own against Jimbob, and can get her way. She got a private first kiss and had the best wedding out of all the Duggars so far. She also fails at everything fundie women are supposed to do, and doesn't seem maternal, so if she didn't want to do these things, she knows she cant. Also whatever they did to kill the spirit of their kids didn't work on Jessa, shes made of tougher stuff than the others.

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

I think the Duggar parents will loosen the reigns quite a bit for JD- 1)because they really want him to settle down and get married and 2)because their misogynist outlook puts soooo much value on the purity of a wife (not on the husband).

Josh was an anomaly in the fundie world- usually the parents of the girl set the tone and "standards" :nenner: for a relationship. They will give their boys more freedom because they feel like it is the girls' family who should guard her heart and her lady bits before marriage.