I think my heart just broke for Michelle

[VelociRapture]

I obviously don't know what happens when the cameras aren't around, but I do wonder how much of her deattachment is just played up for the show or caused by editing.

I wouldn't be surprised if Michelle suffered from depression at some point. Or anxiety. I look at her and the way she acts and just wonder what makes her react that way - why would a mother have her daughters raise their siblings or seem to distance herself from her children? My only conclusion is that something major happened to her sometime after Josh was born that caused her to emotionally withdraw. Having a ton of kids could make anyone anxious. Adding in an alleged miscarriage, a mental breakdown, and the sudden death of her mother... Well, I honestly can see why she acts that way.

She could be reacting out of fear. Sometimes people refuse to exhibit or feel love out of fear of rejection or fear of being hurt.

I feel limited sympathy for her. Yes she did choose this life and has to live with the consequences... But it has to be horrible to never allow yourself to form meaningful attachments while constantly keeping a smile on your face. And it has to be horrible for her kids to constantly want that love and not be able to get it.

There are just so many things wrong with Fundieism.

[eh02]

I wouldn't be surprised if Michelle suffered from depression at some point. Or anxiety.

She could be reacting out of fear. Sometimes people refuse to exhibit or feel love out of fear of rejection or fear of being hurt.

I feel limited sympathy for her. Yes she did choose this life and has to live with the consequences... But it has to be horrible to never allow yourself to form meaningful attachments while constantly keeping a smile on your face. And it has to be horrible for her kids to constantly want that love and not be able to get it.

I agree with you on pretty much all of this. The fundie lifestyle is a very fear-based way of living. I think to some people, that cult-like mentality is oddly comforting. Someone else tells you what is right and wrong and you just say OK. It's a prescribed life. I think in some ways it is sort of similar to extreme anxiety leading to OCD - it's this false comfort in parts of your life being highly structured. "If I do X, Y and Z, everything will be OK."

I really think Michelle might be on some serious anxiety meds or mood stabilizers these days. I realize the show is heavily scripted, but for the most part, this is still their lives and she really was not emotional or even very involved in Jill's wedding. And Jill is clearly her favorite of the oldest...I can't even imagine how little she'll care when Jessa gets married this weekend! If she cries at Jessa's wedding it'll be from a panic attack when she has an existential crisis reminiscing about the prime of her life.

Anyway, I have some degree of sympathy for Michelle. It's pretty obvious why quality is more important than quantity here. It's like she's the manager of the house who comes in once in a while to check on things, but otherwise nobody really sees her.

And honestly, I disagree that her and Josie even have a special bond. I love Josie's sass because I think in the long run it'll be good for her in that family, and it just kills me to see the other little girls look so sad, but Josie has hardcore youngest child syndrome because of Michelle's favoritism toward her. I see it backfiring...I think she (and honestly, all of the youngest girls) are NOT going to be easy teenagers like the oldest four. The little girls clearly have very different personality types and very different life experiences. I honestly don't know what they will do with their time when they're teenagers and have no siblings to care for...sweep the tumbleweeds from the empty boys' room? Hope they really like harp playing...

[antwan]

I've known several women like Michelle who were obsessed with having a newborn around. I have to agree (based on what we do see on the show, and based on the women I mentioned) that there has GOT to be an element of depression and/or anxiety that lends itself to the baby hyper focus.

I'm not sure if Michelle would have still been so detached, had they stopped at a more manageable number, say 8 or less. I think, at some point, she hit a point of no return in the fundie world, -too invested in the quiverfull cr%p to stop now, and too overwhelmed by the number of children, coupled with that anxiety and/or depression, to form healthier, deeper bonds with each of them.

However, as for Michelle being on the outs on Jill's wedding day, I just don't think that's how it was. It appears that way on camera/editing, but Jill thinks her "mama" is the greatest ever, and I don't believe Jill would allow Michelle's role to be minimized. On camera, perhaps it was. I just doubt it actually was.

[FreeHannie!]

I'm not sure if Michelle would have still been so detached, had they stopped at a more manageable number, say 8 or less. I think, at some point, she hit a point of no return in the fundie world, -too invested in the quiverfull cr%p to stop now, and too overwhelmed by the number of children, coupled with that anxiety and/or depression, to form healthier, deeper bonds with each of them.

However, as for Michelle being on the outs on Jill's wedding day, I just don't think that's how it was. It appears that way on camera/editing, but Jill thinks her "mama" is the greatest ever, and I don't believe Jill would allow Michelle's role to be minimized. On camera, perhaps it was. I just doubt it actually was.

It's almost a shame that the show won't be around when it's time for Jenny to get married, because no way will little Jenny be gushing about the 'best mama ever'. Unless of course, she is talking abut Jill.

[Mama Mia]

I am not a Michelle fan.

BUT...

I was reading another thread and someone said something about Michelle's lack of involvement, like Michelle taking a bag from Jill's shoulder as Jill had already turned and was walking away.

All those moments with Jill and Jim Bob. Where was the special mom/daughter time?

I am not close with my mother. When I got married, she was not an integral part of wedding preparations. When I gave birth, I had to get the nurse to make her leave because I kept asking her and she wouldn't leave and I was about to get hysterical.

I'm very close with my daughter. We have a very different relationship for which I am profoundly grateful that history did not repeat itself. I cherish my daughter with all my heart.

I would be utterly heartbroken to be marginalized the way Michelle was, or appeared to be, on the show. This was the Jim Bob and Jill Show, with special guest appearances by Michelle, who did a whole lot of talking but didn't really do anything.

For Jill, I totally get it. For Michelle, my momma's heart shatters.

I get what you mean, but as others have said, we're only seeing a highly edited slice of the day. Jim Bob is the more emotional of the two, so it makes sense they choose him to be the parental focus anytime it's a more gushy topic.

Even though it was a two- hour special, probably 20 minutes was commercials. About half of the rest seemed to be talking heads and recaps and reminiscing about their childhoods.

Plus for their female leads ( besides the Bride of course :lol: ) they already have a really compelling and heart wrenching Mom of the Groom story and the reaction of Joy to her big buddy leaving/ taking over her role. AND crazy eyed reception lady drama.

Plus they had the rehearsal, actually getting ready for the wedding, the ceremony and a snippet of the reception.

I don't think anyone who wasn't seen or featured was for any reason other than they had a lot to cover.

My take on Michelle is that she is definitely the less involved of the two parents, and definitely not as hands on and close with the younger children as the older girls. Her role actually reminds me more of the Dad with a long commute in a family with a SAHM. So I'm sure there's lots of love and affection---but not the day in day out intimacy and closeness you would expect of the mom.

Oddly, I think part of why she comes off sooooo detached and odd is that she's just not that comfortable on camera. I think she does okay when she's answering direct prompts in the talking heads about practical subjects, but when it's interacting with the people she always seems self- conscious. Like the camera makes her nervous.

[MoonFace]

She doesn't have the bond because most of those kids are approximately 13 months apart. So she had her child, nursed it, got pregnant and then started focusing on the new baby and then that child got shipped off to be the responsibility of his/her "buddy"

When most children are clinging to their mommy her kids were clinging to a sibling.

Think of those monkeys that we saw clinking to a wire cage covered in fur

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 5120812368

[JHeathen]

I've known several women like Michelle who were obsessed with having a newborn around. I have to agree (based on what we do see on the show, and based on the women I mentioned) that there has GOT to be an element of depression and/or anxiety that lends itself to the baby hyper focus.

I'm not sure if Michelle would have still been so detached, had they stopped at a more manageable number, say 8 or less. I think, at some point, she hit a point of no return in the fundie world, -too invested in the quiverfull cr%p to stop now, and too overwhelmed by the number of children, coupled with that anxiety and/or depression, to form healthier, deeper bonds with each of them.

However, as for Michelle being on the outs on Jill's wedding day, I just don't think that's how it was. It appears that way on camera/editing, but Jill thinks her "mama" is the greatest ever, and I don't believe Jill would allow Michelle's role to be minimized. On camera, perhaps it was. I just doubt it actually was.

Right. There were probably plenty of mother-daughter moments IRL. I'm sure there was a mother-daughter talk filmed at some point of the week, ala Josh and DimBob. We just were not SHOWN these moments. Because the storyline was "father gives away daughter." Probably inspired by that line, 'Jimbob's been crying all week."

[Pretzel]

I feel sorry for Michelle in a way that I'm really sad she can't be closer to her children.

When the Duggar kids try to praise their mother it's ridiculous. It's the same meaningless GotHard-approved phrases over and over again. When the Bates kids praise Kelly (like just recently for her birthday) it's always individual thank yous, everyone in their unique way but all of them stress how Kelly is always there for any of them. Even little Callie said she loves being hugged and cuddled by her mom so often. I wish there was one time when a Duggar kid uses exactly these words: My mom is always there for me, she has an open ear and an open heart, always.

Won't happen, though.

I remember Erin getting a lot of backlash for freaking out over a thunderstorm (like, wtf, even adults can be afraid of thunderstorms for Pete's sake!) and she was going to Kelly for comfort. I remember Kelly hugging Erin and comforting her, while cuddling a few little ones. THAT is what an attached mother does.

A detached mother bothers to film her son while he's scared to death right after having had and accident. :angry-banghead:

[FreeHannie!]

I remember Erin getting a lot of backlash for freaking out over a thunderstorm (like, wtf, even adults can be afraid of thunderstorms for Pete's sake!) and she was going to Kelly for comfort. I remember Kelly hugging Erin and comforting her, while cuddling a few little ones. THAT is what an attached mother does. :

FWIW, my 25 year old sister is to this very day deathly afraid of storms.

[FreeHannie!]

While I have no doubt Michaela and Erin in particular have done more than their fair share of wrangling children and tending to younger siblings, I don't get the impression they raised their siblings the way the J'Slaves did. The Bates children seem so much closer to Kelly than the Duggar girls to do J'Uterus. She seems to have found a way to be a loving and engaged mother to all of her children.

[nelliebelle1197]

The only people who should break a mother's heart are the children born into this mess

[HereticHick]

I think Michelle is mentally haunted by her "sinful" teenage cheerleading-outfit years. Whether that is guilt that she's brought on herself, or its guilt that JimBob is inflicting on her, I don't know. But I do believe she thinks she was a teenage slut, by Gothard Standards, and that always has, and always will, deeply affect her relationship with her daughters.

[BrownieMomma]

Somehow I got to Amy's IG yesterday, following another link from FJ.

Can I just say, Amy was beautiful. Gorgeous. Classy.

Anyway, there was a picture of Jill and Michelle.

So yes probably this was just a TLC scripted show, but even then, I find it sad that nothing was shown of Jill and Michelle. I would think for most, this is a special mom/daughter time, or at least a few moments of it.

But there it is, on celluloid and in glorious living color forever and ever, how Michelle didn't seem to count for much on the wedding day and her role was just to talk a whole freakin lot.

[browncoatslytherin]

FWIW, my 25 year old sister is to this very day deathly afraid of storms.

it took me a long time to overcome my fear of storms. now i love to hear thunder, as long as it doesn't get deafeningly loud to where it seems like it shakes the house.

[for_the_Kitties]

Same here. OR, maybe just one or two kids that would be the typical high achievers (sports, music, academics).

I could see her being a helicopter parent and soccer mom, or one of those crazy pageant mothers who forces their daughter to be good at something. Or a crazy dance mom. I'd love to see her deal with Abby Lee Miller...

Better Yet, if she was nonfundie, she'd be the real life version of Ms. Beauregarde from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

[VelociRapture]

Somehow I got to Amy's IG yesterday, following another link from FJ.

Can I just say, Amy was beautiful. Gorgeous. Classy.

Anyway, there was a picture of Jill and Michelle.

So yes probably this was just a TLC scripted show, but even then, I find it sad that nothing was shown of Jill and Michelle. I would think for most, this is a special mom/daughter time, or at least a few moments of it.

But there it is, on celluloid and in glorious living color forever and ever, how Michelle didn't seem to count for much on the wedding day and her role was just to talk a whole freakin lot.

I think the 19KAC facebook page has an exclusive clip of MIchelle and Grandma Mary with Jill before the wedding as well. I figured TLC probably just cut those mother/daughter moments from the episode for pacing reasons, but it is a bit sad that they didn't feel highlighting that relationship a bit was worthwhile.

And I'm also thinking that they cut out other moments too - like Jill spending time with her Bridal Party before the wedding. Someone in this thread, or another, commented that they missed seeing her spending time with her Bridesmaids before the wedding. . . this just makes me think TLC made the same decision to cut it for the storyline's sake.

[SassyPants]

Not all moms are warm, fuzzy,overly attached or emotional. I get it. Most of those moms do not choose to have 19 children-

There's the disconnect. All those kids that a man told you should let happen. Such a horrible life for all concerned.

After the first half dozen she had built in help- and now that help is eroding. I wonder if Michelle is frightened at the prospect of having to raise a 10, 9, 7,6 and 5 year olds??? Plus all those 12-16 yo boys????

[Coco]

I think the 19KAC facebook page has an exclusive clip of MIchelle and Grandma Mary with Jill before the wedding as well. I figured TLC probably just cut those mother/daughter moments from the episode for pacing reasons, but it is a bit sad that they didn't feel highlighting that relationship a bit was worthwhile.

And I'm also thinking that they cut out other moments too - like Jill spending time with her Bridal Party before the wedding. Someone in this thread, or another, commented that they missed seeing her spending time with her Bridesmaids before the wedding. . . this just makes me think TLC made the same decision to cut it for the storyline's sake.

So glad they made this behind the scenes moment public :D Michelle and Grandma Duggar give Jill a hankie made from Mary's wedding dress. And a pep talk about marriage. (Grandma has real words of advice, and maybe that's why TLC cut it.) :roll: TLC really did a bad job of editing, making Jill look like a self-centered bride and Michelle like a spaced out afterthought lol Glad it wasn't really like that.

[bBvideo 560,340:2ph2oti9]http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/videos/exclusive-behind-the-scenes-video-from-jill-duggar-derick-dillards-wedding.htm[/bBvideo]

Props to Amy for showing some of the reality too. :D No wonder some of the kids are so over the show. It would suck to have false things about your life sold to the world.

[ncb]

A detached mother bothers to film her son while he's scared to death right after having had and accident. :angry-banghead:

[EmmieJ]

Not all moms are warm, fuzzy,overly attached or emotional. I get it. Most of those moms do not choose to have 19 children-

There's the disconnect. All those kids that a man told you should let happen. Such a horrible life for all concerned.

After the first half dozen she had built in help- and now that help is eroding. I wonder if Michelle is frightened at the prospect of having to raise a 10, 9, 7,6 and 5 year olds??? Plus all those 12-16 yo boys????

I wonder the same thing. I think the younger daughters are not going to be as "compliant" as their dear, dear Jilly Muffin, and work their fingers to the bone so their mother doesn't have to get too involved. I hope that Jana finds a way out of that household soon, as it seems that the heaviest of loads get dumped on her. I also think that with Jill and Jessa getting married, and soon to produce grandchildren, it makes Michelle really face the fact that her child-bearing days are behind her.

[lisab506]

I am not a Michelle fan.

BUT...

I was reading another thread and someone said something about Michelle's lack of involvement, like Michelle taking a bag from Jill's shoulder as Jill had already turned and was walking away.

All those moments with Jill and Jim Bob. Where was the special mom/daughter time?

I am not close with my mother. When I got married, she was not an integral part of wedding preparations. When I gave birth, I had to get the nurse to make her leave because I kept asking her and she wouldn't leave and I was about to get hysterical.

I'm very close with my daughter. We have a very different relationship for which I am profoundly grateful that history did not repeat itself. I cherish my daughter with all my heart.

I would be utterly heartbroken to be marginalized the way Michelle was, or appeared to be, on the show. This was the Jim Bob and Jill Show, with special guest appearances by Michelle, who did a whole lot of talking but didn't really do anything.

For Jill, I totally get it. For Michelle, my momma's heart shatters.

The thing with reality TV is that it is heavily edited. We don't know what may have happened but ended up on the editing room floor. But your point is well taken.

[VelociRapture]

So glad they made this behind the scenes moment public :D Michelle and Grandma Duggar give Jill a hankie made from Mary's wedding dress. And a pep talk about marriage. (Grandma has real words of advice, and maybe that's why TLC cut it.) :roll: TLC really did a bad job of editing, making Jill look like a self-centered bride and Michelle like a spaced out afterthought lol Glad it wasn't really like that.

[bBvideo 560,340:1ngjgk71]http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/videos/exclusive-behind-the-scenes-video-from-jill-duggar-derick-dillards-wedding.htm[/bBvideo]

Props to Amy for showing some of the reality too. :D No wonder some of the kids are so over the show. It would suck to have false things about your life sold to the world.

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I'm really glad they made those moments public too and that Jill will have nice memories of her loved ones from her wedding day. TLC really did do a horrible job this season from the sounds of it. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of stuff got left on the cutting room floor that would have told a different story.

Just goes to show that the show really doesn't contain much reality.

[DGayle]

Having so many kids was Michelle's choice. I do believe that, if she had told JB behind closed doors that she wanted no more, that he would have accepted that. For all his faults, I do think he would have respected that. Michelle is the one so focused on having kid after kid, like it's a race to #20, and yeah, after a point, you will get tired, and I'm sure she came to start resenting the kids that exhausted her so much, but she still wanted the attention of being Mother of the Year simply for having the kids. I also think she resents that her daughters are starting to get more attention. No one's made her pass new babies off onto other kids. SHE is the one making the choice to bow out after six months. Really, the one we see doing things with the kids more is JB. No one's stopping Michelle from being involved.

They weren't raised fundy. It was a choice, and according to both of them at various points, the step into fundyism was initiated by Michelle.

[Mela99]

What advice did Mary give her?

Something other than 'spread your legs whenever your husband demands it' I hope...

[JHeathen]

What advice did Mary give her?

Something other than 'spread your legs whenever your husband demands it' I hope...

Almost. Give more to the other person instead of yourself is what I got from it. So many squeaky voices talking at the same time, I could not understand most of it. Looked like JChelle inserted herself into what was supposed to be a moment between Grandma and Jill. A piece of Grandma's wedding dress...but it was (embroidered?) with a message "from Grandma AND MOM Duggar?"