I think my heart just broke for Michelle

[BrownieMomma]

I am not a Michelle fan.

 

BUT...

 

I was reading another thread and someone said something about Michelle's lack of involvement, like Michelle taking a bag from Jill's shoulder as Jill had already turned and was walking away.

 

All those moments with Jill and Jim Bob. Where was the special mom/daughter time?

 

I am not close with my mother. When I got married, she was not an integral part of wedding preparations. When I gave birth, I had to get the nurse to make her leave because I kept asking her and she wouldn't leave and I was about to get hysterical.

 

I'm very close with my daughter. We have a very different relationship for which I am profoundly grateful that history did not repeat itself. I cherish my daughter with all my heart.

 

I would be utterly heartbroken to be marginalized the way Michelle was, or appeared to be, on the show. This was the Jim Bob and Jill Show, with special guest appearances by Michelle, who did a whole lot of talking but didn't really do anything.

 

For Jill, I totally get it. For Michelle, my momma's heart shatters.

[SassyPants]

I am not a Michelle fan.

BUT...

I was reading another thread and someone said something about Michelle's lack of involvement, like Michelle taking a bag from Jill's shoulder as Jill had already turned and was walking away.

All those moments with Jill and Jim Bob. Where was the special mom/daughter time?

I am not close with my mother. When I got married, she was not an integral part of wedding preparations. When I gave birth, I had to get the nurse to make her leave because I kept asking her and she wouldn't leave and I was about to get hysterical.

I'm very close with my daughter. We have a very different relationship for which I am profoundly grateful that history did not repeat itself. I cherish my daughter with all my heart.

I would be utterly heartbroken to be marginalized the way Michelle was, or appeared to be, on the show. This was the Jim Bob and Jill Show, with special guest appearances by Michelle, who did a whole lot of talking but didn't really do anything.

For Jill, I totally get it. For Michelle, my momma's heart shatters.

Unfortunately, this is what happens when you have a gaggle of kids. The closeness and specialness is diminished because there are only so many hours in a day and so much to get done. Theoretically, Michelle should know the older kids better because she actually had to raise them, and maybe because she did, she resents them more?

I think having such a large number really diminishes the special bond between a parent and a child- I know, more sibling bonds, but still....

[Mela99]

I dunno, man... I just can't get any sympathy for her. She brought this life on herself. And I fully believe she is so wrapped up in herself and babies to give a damn about anything except losing another babysitter/cook/housecleaner.

[anjulibai]

I think Michelle has detached herself from her children, including the older ones. I think she wants it that way.

I mean, contrast her to Kelly Bates, who is obviously very close to all of her children. That's a choice Kelly makes, and puts energy into.

Michelle just is not really interested in her children outside of the attention they bring to her.

[SassyPants]

Someone on FJ put it best. Michelle is an accidental fundie.

[singsingsing]

I never assume anything we see on the TV show reflects the reality of their lives. TLC decided the best narrative would be 'father giving his daughter away' so they edited the show to emphasize that. Michelle could've been around Jill way more than Jim Bob was but we'll never know... all we're privy to is TLC's version of events, and they don't care about accuracy, just entertainment.

[browncoatslytherin]

Someone on FJ put it best. Michelle is an accidental fundie.

i get the feeling that if she wasn't dragged into the fundie world, michelle would be a career-oriented woman. maybe married, maybe not, but no kids.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

i get the feeling that if she wasn't dragged into the fundie world, michelle would be a career-oriented woman. maybe married, maybe not, but no kids.

Same here. OR, maybe just one or two kids that would be the typical high achievers (sports, music, academics).

[SassyPants]

I never assume anything we see on the TV show reflects the reality of their lives. TLC decided the best narrative would be 'father giving his daughter away' so they edited the show to emphasize that. Michelle could've been around Jill way more than Jim Bob was but we'll never know... all we're privy to is TLC's version of events, and they don't care about accuracy, just entertainment.

Do you think any of what we are shown is real?

[Four is Enough]

Scripted, edited, or not, I can NOT see any genuine warmth from Michelle to her children. Further, I can see very little warmth from the children to Michelle.

She is talking, talking, talking, very earnestly, trying to convince us that she's very involved. I'm not seeing it.

[Mythicwings]

I have absolutely no idea how Michelle feels for her kids or what she does for them. I assume she does love them! But she IS a victim of her own extremist mind. I don't understand the authoritarian mindset, but Michelle is truly an authoritarian follower, setting impossible expectations for herself and her children, giving them absolutely no privacy and making sure she had a huge family since that was what her authority told her was what God wanted. People who are like that - I don't understand it but they really have trouble functioning any other way.And so her huge family means that her relationship with the older girls would probably devolve into depending on them less than having a good interpersonal relationship. I don't know of course what goes on behind the scenes, but I am not one who thinks Michelle is cold or a bitch, she just is trapped in her self-imposed authoritarian follower role. That whole lifestyle SUCKS for mother-daughter relationships.

[EmmieJ]

Scripted, edited, or not, I can NOT see any genuine warmth from Michelle to her children. Further, I can see very little warmth from the children to Michelle.

She is talking, talking, talking, very earnestly, trying to convince us that she's very involved. I'm not seeing it.

That's the way I see it too. That special mother/daughter bond doesn't seem to be there with any of her daughters, except perhaps Josie. I think the older daughters were turned into mini-moms so young, that the real closeness exists between the sisters (bonded together through shared hard work and being each other's source of comfort, since their own mom really wasn't available to them), and between the substitute moms and their "buddies."

I can't feel sorry for Michelle, because she is reaping what she sowed. How very biblical of her. She gives lip service to how babies are precious gifts, but once those precious gifts were old enough to be weaned, they got shipped off to their siblings' bedroom. That was her choice, so no, I don't feel sorry for her at all.

[BrownieMomma]

All of you are right and I'm totally projecting how hurt I would feel if my daughter and I were not having special warm fuzzy mommy/girlie moments on the morning of her wedding.

Then she'd want to spend about half that time with her friends.

I'll prolly be scooping ice cream. 8-)

[neuroticcat]

I think Michelle is pretty detached. My guess is that it's not that she doesn't want to attach to her children, she just doesn't know how to attach at all. I think Michelle is the main reason the family has pursued the fundie-life. I've said before on these forums and still feel that people are drawn to fundamentalism and dogmatic thinking because it's the ultimate codependence. God tells you how to live your life all the way down to what food you eat or clothes you wear to "honor the Lord." So I tend to think she's experienced some form of abuse or dysfunction that led to that kind of codependence feeling normal and right. The idea of being an individual and taking responsibility for one's choices is foreign. Instead, God decides what's best for them. And then when she jumped into fundie-land it further enforced the non-personhood. You're supposed to "die to yourself" and "serve others" and have all the kids. So she shut down any kind of personhood and lives out the live she's supposed to - choosing to smile and be joyful through it all. And the end result is a facade and extremely narcissistic parenting that oppresses the kids with standards for the life they're supposed to live. And the cycle continues.

Narcissistic parenting can take either extreme - the enmeshed controlling boundary-less kind (a la Jim Bob) or the detached almost neglectful kind (Michelle).

[nokidsmom]

I have absolutely no idea how Michelle feels for her kids or what she does for them. I assume she does love them! But she IS a victim of her own extremist mind. I don't understand the authoritarian mindset, but Michelle is truly an authoritarian follower, setting impossible expectations for herself and her children, giving them absolutely no privacy and making sure she had a huge family since that was what her authority told her was what God wanted. People who are like that - I don't understand it but they really have trouble functioning any other way.And so her huge family means that her relationship with the older girls would probably devolve into depending on them less than having a good interpersonal relationship. I don't know of course what goes on behind the scenes, but I am not one who thinks Michelle is cold or a bitch, she just is trapped in her self-imposed authoritarian follower role. That whole lifestyle SUCKS for mother-daughter relationships.

This is what I think also. She imposed this on herself as a reaction to something, whether it was the miscarriage or something else. I always thought that even though she was the pretty, popular cheerleader, something was lacking for her and it came to a head after she married and had Josh. The miscarriage that supposedly did this was only a catalyst but if not it would have been something else. I think she fell into fundamentalism / quiverfull lifestyle and beliefs because it had answers and it made her feel more safe and certain, at least at the time. Unfortunately it brought other problems such more kids than she could handle and therefore having to rely on her daughters to raise them. Because other people have stood in for the mother role (her daughters) this distances her from all of the kids, including the older daughters that she previously may have been able to parent for a while because they are too busy taking on her mother role.

I don't think she's a emotionally strong person. There's nothing wrong with that. Some people are strong and some are not. It just is. However, it's a shame she didn't recognize this when she might have had a chance to pattern her life according to what she could handle rather than plunge headfirst into something that had answers but brought on other problems. As far as I have heard, JB didn't impose this on her but rather went along because it was what she wanted. Now both are locked into the lifestyle and the thinking that goes with it.

[SassyPants]

This is what I think also. She imposed this on herself as a reaction to something, whether it was the miscarriage or something else. I always thought that even though she was the pretty, popular cheerleader, something was lacking for her and it came to a head after she married and had Josh. The miscarriage that supposedly did this was only a catalyst but if not it would have been something else. I think she fell into fundamentalism / quiverfull lifestyle and beliefs because it had answers and it made her feel more safe and certain, at least at the time. Unfortunately it brought other problems such more kids than she could handle and therefore having to rely on her daughters to raise them. Because other people have stood in for the mother role (her daughters) this distances her from all of the kids, including the older daughters that she previously may have been able to parent for a while because they are too busy taking on her mother role.

I don't think she's a emotionally strong person. There's nothing wrong with that. Some people are strong and some are not. It just is. However, it's a shame she didn't recognize this when she might have had a chance to pattern her life according to what she could handle rather than plunge headfirst into something that had answers but brought on other problems. As far as I have heard, JB didn't impose this on her but rather went along because it was what she wanted. Now both are locked into the lifestyle and the thinking that goes with it.

There' still time for her to adjust. This would be the perfect time as her family, the one she is directly responsible, by law, to provide for is shrinking.

Personally, I think few, if any, couples and families could successfully pull off the quiverful lifestyle and turn out healthy, functioning, engaged kids.

[shedemei]

Do you think any of what we are shown is real?

Probably not much.

From a reality show writer: http://www.wga.org/organizesub.aspx?id=1091

Other articles in this topic:

http://www.wga.org/organizesub.aspx?id=1088

Actors:

http://www.cracked.com/article_21440_5- ... -star.html

I happen to know someone who's one of the stars in an upcoming reality show. All but one of them has a completely fake background and have to act as if it's true.

[SassyPants]

Probably not much.

From a reality show writer: http://www.wga.org/organizesub.aspx?id=1091

Other articles in this topic:

http://www.wga.org/organizesub.aspx?id=1088

Actors:

http://www.cracked.com/article_21440_5- ... -star.html

I happen to know someone who's one of the stars in an upcoming reality show. All but one of them has a completely fake background and have to act as if it's true.

Good! Better for the kids if it's all fake.

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

It is heartbreaking that Michelle is so detached from her daughters- for her and them. It reminds me so much of my own mother. She just doesn't understand why half her children avoid her like the plague. I told my sister one time that my mom has a toxic smile- even with a smile on her face she can be so manipulative it just unnerves me.

We have only seen such small snippets of Michelle's life- imagine if there had been blogs, smartphones, etc. when her kids were little. I think we would see even more of her craziness come out and a lot more of her look at me, look at me behavior (a la Jill Rodrigues, etc.). In the next few years I think we will see Michelle become even more obsessed with portraying the image of the perfect fundie family. As her older girls marry and move out Michelle will have to step in and get the family back on track and I think she will rule with an iron fist.

[Toothfairy]

I don't feel bad for Michelle. She chose their lifestyle. She's the one that chose this for her kids. I think something truly traumatic happened between the time she married JB and the time she miscarried Julbiee. She has some sort of mental disorder. She's emotionally detached from all her children, she seems to be in her own little world, she doesn't have a care in the world, she has no relationship with anyone including JB, she gives away her children when they're only 6 months olds. Seems to me she has some deep rooted issues that needs to be resolved.

[Toothfairy]

Do you think any of what we are shown is real?

real meaning? I think TLC sets up certain story lines. Also they wouldn't be doing half the things if it wouldn't for tlc. So it's somewhat real somewhat fake

[toejamflipflop]

I was just thinking about the difference between Michelle and Kelly Bates. Michelle is certainly detached from her kids but Kelly is very warm and loving toward her whole family and outsiders as well. Kelly is very friendly while Michelle seems guarded and afraid to get involved with anyone outside her beliefs. Its to bad. Even with Kellys children they seem very loving towards each other. The Duggar kids always seem to have this competition amongst them to vie for the parents affections. If I had to choose a family to live with it would be the Bates because of the closeness they have with their kids.

[CorruptionInc.]

I was just thinking about the difference between Michelle and Kelly Bates. Michelle is certainly detached from her kids but Kelly is very warm and loving toward her whole family and outsiders as well. Kelly is very friendly while Michelle seems guarded and afraid to get involved with anyone outside her beliefs. Its to bad. Even with Kellys children they seem very loving towards each other. The Duggar kids always seem to have this competition amongst them to vie for the parents affections. If I had to choose a family to live with it would be the Bates because of the closeness they have with their kids.

Also Kelly doesn't talk about sex in one form or another every waking minute of the day.

[SassyPants]

Also Kelly doesn't talk about sex in one form or another every waking minute of the day.

She's too busy running a home and raising kids.

Kelly seems like she enjoys her family- Michelle uses her as a prop.

Cheerleader, water skiing, bow shooting, sky diving, self tanning Michelle has little apparent interest in cooking, cleaning, washing clothes or raising a group of kids. She is D_O_N_E, done.

She should have stopped at 6 and she would be DONE, done.

[FreeHannie!]

I think Michelle suffers low self esteem and that's how she ended up married so young and how she was easily twisted into being a fundie after J'Caleb and she really resents her life but is in so deep now that she just has to try and deal with it as best as she can and that's not well because her 4 oldest daughters ended up raising her family.

I also think there are many years of untreated depression too. Having babies and getting attention from it was how she numbed the pain, but now she has lost that as an option.