FL Teacher May Lose Job Over FB Posting About Gay Marriage

[Sprocket]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44184663/ns ... k-comment/

Mount Dora High School teacher Jerry Buell, the 2010 teacher of the year, is awaiting a decision about whether he will return to the classroom after a controversial comment he made on Facebook led to his suspension.

According to Lake County School District officials, a former student reported a Facebook post by Buell that may have violated ethics rules when he used social media to sound off about gay marriage.

School officials confirmed to WESH 2 News that Buell posted a comment stating that he “almost threw up†over a news story about legalizing same-sex marriage and went on to write that same-sex marriage is a “cesspool.â€

WESH 2 News reporter Talitha Vickers attempted to talk to Buell at his home, but he refused to comment.

Evan Holley, a Mount Dora High School alumnus, said Buell is an excellent teacher.

“Mr. Buell would never do that to offend anybody. I mean, he’s a really Christian guy and that’s his beliefs. I mean, it’s his personal Facebook,†said Holley.

The district has not made a decision about what further disciplinary action could be taken against Buell. The award-winning social studies teacher was suspended and working in a clerical position at the school district’s administration building.

***

Thoughts?

[Kelsey]

I don't think he should lose his job over it. He didn't make the comments in the classroom and as long as he's not preaching his beliefs to students in an official position, I think he should be covered by the 1st amendment (IMO). I DO think he should make his FB private and not friend students/parents on his FB but I feel that way for all teachers.

FTR- I support the legalization of same-sex marriage.

[helloemi]

I get really upset when people say "Oh but he is a Christian and those are his beliefs."

We don't all think like that! It's just really hurtful as a Christian to hear people lump us all together, plus to say that as an excuse like it's a positive thing...

This is the same as saying all Muslims think women should wear burkas...

[demgirl]

Huh. Well. I kind of need to sort this out.

First, he's a social studies teacher, so I find this slightly more worrying than if it were, say, a math teacher, because history is so subjective and it's very possible to skew people's understanding based on the teacher's own beliefs. But. That's not really my biggest issue.

My biggest issue is that if you were a gay teenager in Buell's class and discovered that he had said these things, you would never, ever feel comfortable around him. Teenagers are just coming to terms with their sexuality, whether they are gay or straight, and knowing that someone condemns your sexuality so virulently and publicly means that you would never be comfortable sitting in that class, much less approaching your teacher one on one, be it with academic issues or issues personal in nature.

I do believe in freedom of speech and I am a bit troubled that the speech took place outside of work. Obviously, it would not be appropriate for him to say these things to the class or even to other teachers in the school building. Most of us have to observe that sort of rule at work. I don't run around my office screaming about the Tea Party, for instance. But this speech took place outside of the classroom and indeed outside of the school.

It's a hard thing to weigh out -- the need to protect teenagers who are gay or questioning their sexuality from being under this man's authority versus the need to protect speech. I am not sure where I come down on this, so I'm interested to hear what others have to say.

I will say that he was clearly an idiot for putting this on Facebook. Stupid things written on Facebook always come out. And he's doubly stupid for either having an open profile or allowing former students to friend him.

I think I'd have an easier time if he had just said something like, "Totally disagree with the gay marriage decision," or "I am against gay marriage". I would think that's clearly not overstepping and while it would be unfortunate for any gay students to know his stance on the issue, I think he probably has a right to express his views on the internet as much as he has the right to express them in an op ed in the paper, in a petition, via telephone, etc. But the "throwing up" part leads to the inescapable inference that he finds homosexuality disgusting/nauseating and the "cesspool" part is fairly similar. That's a very different statement than "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman." So, I'm leaning toward "Fire him". But, again. I am not sure.

[debrand]

What if he had said that interracial marriage was against his religious beliefs on a FB page? Wouldn't his students, especially those who are mixed race, have a right to be angry? Take it further, what if he wrote that interracial marriage made him throw up?

Mr. Buell would never do that to offend anybody. I mean, he’s a really Christian guy and that’s his beliefs. I mean, it’s his personal Facebook,†said Holley.

I don't mean this in a mean way, but Holly is not being very logical. Why would a gay student not be offended?

[helloemi]

I believe this is why many states are passing laws saying that teachers or school staff can not be friends with students. This makes sense to me and I am all for this.

Missouri has this law, and honestly, I can't imagine thinking this would be ok ever if I was a teacher. I don't want students seeing what I did Saturday night or what my political/religious beliefs are.

So yes, Fire him!

But as a Florida resident... I know that county politics are complete BS at times and we have had some awful things happen.

At my library there was a woman in local government who threw a fit over our LGBT pride display (perfectly harmless materials by authors who happened to be LGBT) and we were forced to take it down. So I can't say what will happen seeing as this woman is now* in a state position. Shudder

*edited to make sense

[JesusFightClub]

Facebook is bloody dangerous and he should have known that. Over here we've had people arrested, held in custody and given community service orders and even jail terms for things they have posted on FB. Maybe he should lose his job for extreme stupidity...

Having said that I don't think he should be fired for what he posted. Stick the daft bastard on a diversity course, and a Web 2.0 one so he'll know better next time.

[contrary]

I agree it was offensive, and probably unwise, but i also agree that he wasn't spouting off in the classroom and is protected by free speech. Unfortunately, our constitution even allows for assholes and bigots.

also totally agree that teachers and students should never be facebook friends. oy! if i were a teacher, i'd have my facebook wall on total lockdown. hell, i'm not a teacher and i am on lockdown.

[debrand]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/1 ... 31941.html

I'm guessing that he signed some sort of ethic clause in his contract?

When his Facebook friends retaliated against his comments, Buell published a second post: "If one doesn't like the most recently posted opinion, based on Biblical principals and God's law, then go ahead and un-friend me. I'll miss you like I miss my kidney stone from 1994."

[Wolfie]

While I feel that what he said was awful, I also wonder why everybody thinks that they can dictate the lives of teachers?

[Austin]

I DO think he should make his FB private and not friend students/parents on his FB but I feel that way for all teachers.

This. Just because teachers have the right to do something doesn't mean they should. We have seen more and more teachers (and administrators) get in trouble over this in recent years. My husband's princpal was fired last year for posting photos of herself at bars in "girls gone wild" fashion. Should she have the right to do that on her own time? Sure. She might have even prevailed if she had fought the firing.

But that's the reality, because showing it to her adult friends is one thing, but putting it in a forum open to her students is something different in the school's view.

[Kitten]

First, he's a social studies teacher, so I find this slightly more worrying than if it were, say, a math teacher, because history is so subjective and it's very possible to skew people's understanding based on the teacher's own beliefs...knowing that someone condemns your sexuality so virulently and publicly means that you would never be comfortable sitting in that class, much less approaching your teacher one on one, be it with academic issues or issues personal in nature.

Well, here's my take - his opinions aren't likely to change, whether he voices them publicly or not. Therefore, you would still get a "skewed" version in the classroom, only you wouldn't know where it was coming from, and might not even question it as such, if you thought he held opinions similar to your own. Knowing what his beliefs are, however distasteful they may be to you, helps you evaluate what he says more carefully and critically.

Would you, as a gay, be more comfortable sitting in a classroom NOT knowing the teacher's opinion of you, then wondering why your comments are always dismissed, or your grades seem to be lower than those of other students for no discernible reason?

I hate racism, sexism, and all other forms of blind prejudice, but I'd rather (as it were) know my enemy, rather than try to deal with shadowy monsters that seem to slide away whenever you look straight at them.

Should he be teaching? Well, the conservative Christians have certainly made the argument that a gay teacher shouldn't be teaching, because s/he is likely to present a "skewed" version of what they perceive as correct. And they'd probably love to make the argument that agnostics or Hindus or Muslims or Buddhists shouldn't be teaching, because they will present "skewed" views of such subjective subjects as history and social studies. By removing this guy from his teaching position, the school board woiuld be HELPING the conservatives by instituting a policy that says if you hold an unpopular social opinion, you aren't fit to teach. Just imagine what they could do with that!

All said, now that this guy is "outed," all eyes are on him, and any time he steps out of line, he'll be called on it. Isn't that better than enabling him to spew his nasty opinions without any real oversight?

Oh, and that whole First Amendment thing, too...

[demgirl]

Well, you can dictate the lives of many professionals. Judges and lawyers, for instance, have certain speech restrictions placed on them in the code of ethics, especially judges and people who work for them. When I interviewed for judicial clerkships, I was always reminded that if I was hired, I could not take part in any political activity whatsoever until I switched positions (except for voting - you can vote.) I couldn't even make public statements anywhere of which presidential candidates I supported. It's not like it's only teachers who have their lives and speech restricted in some manner.

[Black Aliss]

He should keep his job but be required to take a class in how to use social media (I'm sure the continuing ed divisions of community colleges teach classes like that)

I'm just a little old lady but even I know how to restrict certain of my FB postings to a subset of my friends. And to have the good sense to not friend everyone I know, especially not people I work with or for unless we really are friends when we're off the job.

[Witsec1]

I'm generally on the side of free speech, but if the FB comments did violate the code of ethics he signed, he should have to suffer whatever penalty was spelled out in the code of ethics. Personally, I think rather than firing he should go to a diversity seminar and have to explain his comments to a panel of same sex couples. There should be diversity training for the whole school, in fact.

[demgirl]

Does diversity training actually work? I mean, I'm not opposed to it, but it often seems like a panacea trotted out to calm public outrage until the public forgets and turns its attention to something else. I don't know that I've ever seen someone come out of diversity training and be like, "Ohhhhh... now I get it. Those groups of people have feelings too!" I have seen it work as far as taking truly clueless people and teaching them what is appropriate to say and what isn't and why certain stereotypes aren't funny but rather hurtful, but c'mon -- this guy knew what he was saying, he knew it was negative and would be hurtful to some and he said it anyway. Does diversity training actually help with that sort of stuff?

As I said, not against it. Just skeptical that it's at all useful. This guy strikes me as the type who would find someone else "stuck" in diversity training for being a homophobe and would proceed to make friends with him and go to lunch together to make jokes about the "queers". Maybe I'm not giving him or the training enough credit, but I know I have seen those types and for some reason, he makes me think of them.

[Witsec1]

Does diversity training actually work? I mean, I'm not opposed to it, but it often seems like a panacea trotted out to calm public outrage until the public forgets and turns its attention to something else. I don't know that I've ever seen someone come out of diversity training and be like, "Ohhhhh... now I get it. Those groups of people have feelings too!" I have seen it work as far as taking truly clueless people and teaching them what is appropriate to say and what isn't and why certain stereotypes aren't funny but rather hurtful, but c'mon -- this guy knew what he was saying, he knew it was negative and would be hurtful to some and he said it anyway. Does diversity training actually help with that sort of stuff?

As I said, not against it. Just skeptical that it's at all useful.

Does it work, in general? I don't know. I would just like him to have to sit in a chair and squirm while some gay couples talk about their relationships and ask him to explain himself.

Who knows, maybe something like this could acually happen:

Vatican Reverses Stance On Gay Marriage After Meeting Tony And Craig

[lilwriter85]

I don't think he should lose his job over it. He didn't make the comments in the classroom and as long as he's not preaching his beliefs to students in an official position, I think he should be covered by the 1st amendment (IMO). I DO think he should make his FB private and not friend students/parents on his FB but I feel that way for all teachers.

FTR- I support the legalization of same-sex marriage.

I agree with you. I also support the legalization of same sex marriage. But this guy shouldn't lose his job over his opposition to same sex marriage. I also agree he should have made his FB private and shouldn't have accepted students/parents as friends. There is a lot of debate in many areas over whether teacher should be connected to students through Facebook and other social networking media. Right now in Missouri there is debate over a law in which was recently made. It's called the Facebook law or something and it basically states that public school teachers cannot be friends with students on FB. It is being challenged right now for different reasons, but similar laws could prevent further controversies or disagreements.

[Beeks]

I say suspend/fire him not for the specific posting, but for having students as his facebook friends. To me that crosses a pretty obvious professional line.

[demgirl]

But it wasn't a student. It was a former student. So, does that cross a professional line? Especially if it was a student who graduated several years previously, which could be the case?

[Beeks]

But it wasn't a student. It was a former student. So, does that cross a professional line? Especially if it was a student who graduated several years previously, which could be the case?

Ah, sorry, I didn't realize that (I admit I didn't actually read the article!). No, that should be fine.

In that case I agree with the majority here that while the guy sounds like an ass, he should probably keep his job.

[girlwind]

Distasteful and hateful as this guy's views are, no one should be fired for expressing their personal opinions on their personal Facebook pages.

The teachers I know are all in precarious positions. Some schools even *require* their teachers to have Facebook pages - while also dictating that their content be neutral and classroom-friendly. Facebook is notoriously non-granular and it's hard to group people into public and non-public audiences. One solution is to have two Facebook accounts (and make one a "teacher page" like a business page), but this becomes a problem with other social media services (like Google+) that insist you can only have one page and that page must be tied to your real, verified name.

The way I feel, the only way someone should be fired for their Facebook comments is if they reveal confidential information. I also feel ALL schools should have a policy stating that teachers can't friend students. If they're required to use social media, they should have a non-personal page set up.

[Wolfie]

People keep talking about a code of ethics. Most public districts don't have something like that because it would go against federal law. So, the ethics are not defined, and go along with the community. I teach in a community where those statements would be acceptable. This is why I do not live in this community. I also have former teachers on my facebook, but no former students. I won't friend students, but know teachers who do- for some of them it is a way to keep an eye on them. I don't want that responsibily, but I don't think it is unethical, or should be illegal.

I also think that the issues with judges and their employees are self imposed. I'd much prefer to know where a judge is coming from.

[JesusFightClub]

Re diversity training, it's impossible to tell if it would work or not but it would be worth a try. I've seen it go either way: for some it's just a bit of a skive and box ticking, for others it's been a real eye opener. The outcome which I would see as best case for this guy based on what I read would be "I strongly disagree with gay marriage but those are real people I could hurt and I don't want to hurt anyone by doing something like that again."

Even the best outcome folk who come out with a changed viewpoint catch themselves slipping now and again. So you will probably not see him in a Pride parade any time soon, granted. But he might move past the abstract that is TEH GHEYZ which would be a good start.

[keeperrox]

This is the exact reason why I, as a teacher, am not on Facebook. I don't want to post something that someone might be offended by, not thinking anything of it, and then make the national news. I'd rather not have one, than risk my job over something so stupid and trivial (Facebook itself, not what was said by this particular guy).