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Fundie Wedding Nights/Losing Virginity


Moonbeam

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I've always been under the impression that they teach young couples that sex is for the pleasure of the husband; and the wife is supposed to simply endure it. Some of them have indicated this with their own words.

Ken Alexander brags about his ten minutes and lube sexual release.

Robert, aka Cabinet Man, brags about how he demanded "enthusiastic sex every other day (Period!)"

Debi Pearl writes about how her husband forced sex upon her numerous times on their wedding night, in an effort to out do one of his buddies. She writes this story as though it is just a woman's lot to be raped by her husband.

Steve Maxwell writes about how he alone decided they should have more children, despite his wife's struggle with depression.

As far as actual technique and actually consummating their marriage, I've always just felt really sorry for the young brides. Imagine going from never being touched, and having no knowledge of your own body in a sexual way, to having to submit to painful clumsy intercourse simply because you've said "I do." None of these young fundie husbands give me the impression that they'd be willing to wait and take things slow.

I've also heard stories from young couples where the man, not being a complete ass-hat, would have gladly taken it slow. But the woman had been trained to think that men needed sex right away and so didn't feel like she could talk about taking it slow or didn't feel like she could say no. It's pretty sad. :(

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{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
I am a former fundie. (Fundie lite according to some here.) I was determined to wait until my wedding night, but I didn't. The only man I have been with is my husband. I love him, but if I had it to do over again, I would have slept with more than one person. Sex is a very important part of any relationship. I wonder how incredibly disappointed some of these "purity" fanatics have been at their experiences. It's hard to imagine most go on to have a healthy, happy sex life after being told that their virginity is the be-all, end-all. IMHO, of course.
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I knew a couple that waited until their wedding night, and the husband felt so much pressure he couldn't perform. That went on for 2 weeks. The wife felt guilty, as if it were her fault. Apparently they finally were able to consumate the marriage, but from what I heard, sex was never very satisfying for either of them. Incidentally, I think they divorced after only a couple years, although there were many factors that went into that.

And, just because masturbation is supposedly wrong doesn't mean some of them don't do it anyway (male and female).

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I've always been under the impression that they teach young couples that sex is for the pleasure of the husband; and the wife is supposed to simply endure it. Some of them have indicated this with their own words.

Ken Alexander brags about his ten minutes and lube sexual release.

Robert, aka Cabinet Man, brags about how he demanded "enthusiastic sex every other day (Period!)"

Debi Pearl writes about how her husband forced sex upon her numerous times on their wedding night, in an effort to out do one of his buddies. She writes this story as though it is just a woman's lot to be raped by her husband.

Steve Maxwell writes about how he alone decided they should have more children, despite his wife's struggle with depression.

As far as actual technique and actually consummating their marriage, I've always just felt really sorry for the young brides. Imagine going from never being touched, and having no knowledge of your own body in a sexual way, to having to submit to painful clumsy intercourse simply because you've said "I do." None of these young fundie husbands give me the impression that they'd be willing to wait and take things slow.

I know some men who are douche bags. They quote the wife must be submissive bullshit from the bible and use it against their wives. I know a guy who gets mad and tells his wife she's making excuses when she doesn't want sex. So he guilts her into it and cries and pouts like a 2yo. If she says not now or later he tells her she's pushing him away and if he cheats it's her fault for not giving it to him. Wtf???

As for fundies men need to know more about the female body. You can't just ram your erect penis in a woman and expect her to enjoy it. Consider her needs. And if she says no it means no. A true man would consider not only his needs but his partners needs as well.

ETA:forgot they're fundie. Who am I kidding

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Although it would be sweet, I am doubtful that many fundie husbands are as kind of a husband as Barbra Streisand was in Yentl. What a lovely wedding night that Anshel and Hadass had! :romance-adore:

Of course, it's a lot easier to avoid terrorizing a virgin with one-eyed snake-handling if you don't actually HAVE a one-eyed snake.....

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I don't think it's lack of experience with several partners that causes some to be sexually unfulfilled. You can be with only one person in your life and have mind blowing sex. I think most of the problem is mental. These fundies are taught that sex is dirty and bad and against God. Then they are allowed to have sex in marriage but that negativity is still there. I think they are so afraid they are still doing something wrong. It is likely they believe that if they are actually enjoying it, then they are offending God. Some probably believe that you only have it to have babies and no just because it's enjoyable.

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I know some men who are douche bags. They quote the wife must be submissive bullshit from the bible and use it against their wives. I know a guy who gets mad and tells his wife she's making excuses when she doesn't want sex. So he guilts her into it and cries and pouts like a 2yo. If she says not now or later he tells her she's pushing him away and if he cheats it's her fault for not giving it to him. Wtf???

As for fundies men need to know more about the female body. You can't just ram your erect penis in a woman and expect her to enjoy it. Consider her needs. And if she says no it means no. A true man would consider not only his needs but his partners needs as well.

ETA:forgot they're fundie. Who am I kidding

I had a friend say to me once "They say if I don't let him, he'll get it somewhere else." By "they" she meant the church. So sad.

This all makes me think of how Robert and Ken have both justified their viewing of porn.

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I have long had a fantasy that there is one dog-eared copy of "The Joy of Sex" that gets secretly passed from fundy girl to fundy girl. I know it's not likely to be true, but it helps me sleep at night.

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Fundie colleague who was quite open about these things told us that because she was so terrified of sex, three months after the wedding she was still sleeping fully dressed in another room. The brainwashing ran deep with her - sex is bad, don't let a man touch you etc. Her hubby was awesome and didn't' try to hurry her up at all. He offered to go to counselling (which they did with a non-church therapist) and 20 years later they are still happily married with two gorgeous kids.

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A lot of engaged fundies are given this book: amazon.com/gp/product/B000SFJ0BC?btkr=1 The Act of Marriage and here's a list of the chapters:

The author actually had the audacity to claim that women without their clitoris' can enjoy sex as much as when they do have it, in the same chapter as above.

I wouldn't even describe myself as much of a feminist, but this book seemed extremely misogynistic to me, if not old-fashioned and dated.

If I could give this 0 stars out of 5, I would.

Avoid."

Yikes :pink-shock:

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-The author actually had the audacity to claim that women without their clitoris' can enjoy sex as much as when they do have it, in the same chapter as above.

:pink-shock:

Ugh. Between this, and all the talk about 'after sex mess' I'm really grateful that I prefer same sex encounters (despite the sad fact that as a single queer woman the encounters tend to be less frequent than if I'm sleeping with men). I'm also thankful that I'm not a fundie for that matter.

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I don't think it's lack of experience with several partners that causes some to be sexually unfulfilled. You can be with only one person in your life and have mind blowing sex. I think most of the problem is mental. These fundies are taught that sex is dirty and bad and against God. Then they are allowed to have sex in marriage but that negativity is still there. I think they are so afraid they are still doing something wrong. It is likely they believe that if they are actually enjoying it, then they are offending God. Some probably believe that you only have it to have babies and no just because it's enjoyable.

ITA. That's been my non-fundie experience.

Of course, I had no problem learning about sex from decent sources (no, most porn is not a decent source, since it's all about the pleasure of the male viewer and NOT about what a woman would actually want). We also had some basic love and respect and good communication, and we each wanted to make the other person feel good. Honestly, that would address so many issues. If two people are comfortable with each other, attracted to each other, and can say "that feels really good" or "ouch, not like that", and can watch their partner's reactions instead of just focusing on themselves, they'll likely figure out what works for them.

I object to some of the fundie approaches to sex because it seems destined to actually create problems in marriages. It's not going to be good if a wife is expected to never say no, if she naturally expects that it's not for her pleasure and treats it like doing the dishes, and if the husband has no clue that she might say no for any reason other than wanting to control or manipulate or deprive him.

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I just can't wrap my head around how they go from it being completely evil to even kiss to must make babies, in a day. To go from barely being able to hold hands and never being alone with a guy to getting naked with him...my mind is just blown. :pink-shock:

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Eh, it seems many of them don't have too many problems with the mechanics, as many of the fundie kids we follow get pregnant within a few months of getting married.

I can see problems down the line, where mom has several kids and is tired...and has to put up with dad crawling on top and doing his business. I also don't imagine there is a lot in the way of female satisfaction.

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I just can't wrap my head around how they go from it being completely evil to even kiss to must make babies, in a day. To go from barely being able to hold hands and never being alone with a guy to getting naked with him...my mind is just blown. :pink-shock:

This. I don't get it either. I mean, it usually takes a lot of courage to get naked with anyone, at least if you're as shy as I am, and I guess most fundies are since they've been raised this way. But if you never had the chance to explore the other persons body at least a bit and get used to the closeness before you go all the way? This would be my personal nightmare.

But then again, I guess most fundies have also been raised to not to listen to their feelings, but just do the things that are expected of them. They will read the book, try to understand the mechanics, and then just do it as it is described, even if they feel very uncomfortable while doing it.

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That's why my conservative (though I wouldn't say he's on the fundy spectrum at all, though he used to be fundy lite) Christian friend tells me hat when he gets married, he plans to wait a good 4 weeks to have PIV. The rest of the time they're just going to spend exploring each other.

I told him hats a really good thing, because for a woman raised in such a culture, sex can be downright terrifying.

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I'm not sure why a couple of inexperienced fundies can't try a little mutual experimentation... do the books say that "missionary position man on top" is the ONLY HOLY way to procreate?

ETA: I totally get the lack of improvement after years of trying for some people. In my case, the XH was more interested in boys than girls... and I am all girl.

I was straight up taught that masturbation was wrong...it took me over 2 years of marriage to figure out how to have an orgasm!

We never really hit anything out of the ball park and we were a straight Missionary/doggy style couple. My ex never liked receiving oral either...now granted, that is a skill set one has to learn, so if you're never given the chance to learn, the first time is going to be shitty!

Funny TMI story that I don't care to share at all.. my BF and I started texting after meeting on Match, we had our first date 3 weeks later and it lead to a rented room in a hotel and a first date hook up (sorry, not sorry...it was awesome!), so he was texting me the day after and he goes "So um...can I ask you something?" and I say sure. He says "Do you not give oral?" and he knew I had only ever had sex with my ex. So I tell him "My ex didn't like to receive oral" and he was like "Whaaaaaaaa?!?!" :o So I really didn't know how to do that...I was 35 years old! Of course he was more than willing to let me learn...practice make perfect apparently!

I can honestly say that I will never ever pressure my kids to remain virgins until the get married if they don't want to. I want them to know that sex is fun and safe and here is how you protect yourself. I want them to have fun and experiment and live a little. I feel like I missed out on a huge part of life by clinging to this notion that God would love me more if I didn't put out until I was married. And in actuality, that is the reason I married a man who wasn't right for me in a hurry...I was 18 and horny.

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I'm not sure why a couple of inexperienced fundies can't try a little mutual experimentation... do the books say that "missionary position man on top" is the ONLY HOLY way to procreate?

ETA: I totally get the lack of improvement after years of trying for some people. In my case, the XH was more interested in boys than girls... and I am all girl.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
So, my story.

I was born and raised fundy, but I didn't WANT to be fundy, so that probably plays a huge role in my experiences. I was a desperately horny teen. I wanted sex and I wanted it NOW. I did sort of have the idea that I should wait for marriage, but I was totally down for hopping on the first penis that happened by just because I. Wanted. Sex.

So I did what I do anytime something piques my interest: I researched. I started sneaking peaks into a health/anatomy book my mom had, and that helped me get the basic biology down. I also did a little peeking at relevant entries in the encyclopedia (hush, I'm old). I finally graduated to sneaking peeks at women's magazines. Now, Glamour and Cosmo and the like were clearly off-limits in my fundy household, but my mom had some Woman's Days and things like that around, and I was able to read between the lines pretty well on that. Add to that the fact that on Fridays, our (fundy) school let us have open campus lunches and a friend and I would spend them at the library, well, I wouldn't be surprised if my sex education may just have been better than the average kid's).

By the time I was 18 and finally had the opportunity to lose my virginity, I knew what was what probably as well as any other 18 yo and even knew how to use contraceptives (properly!). Anyway, the enthusiasm wasn't a problem on either of our ends (even though he was a fundy, too, and, well, we were at Bible college where we weren't even supposed to be ALONE together much less touching). And the experimenting was also not a problem because, well, we were both enthusiastic AND curious.

But I'm sure my experience is somewhat atypical. Not only because I wasn't a typical fundy kid but also because I found another nontypical fundy kid to get down and dirty with. But I also suspect that many of you would be surprised at how many so-called fundy kids are really just putting on an act to please their parents/avoid punishment/keep from being sent away to hell camp). I'd guess that at least half of the kids I grew up with bolted as soon as they were old enough, and the other half "fell away" into less fundy churches. I can't even think of one who still buys the party line.

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{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
But I'm sure my experience is somewhat atypical. Not only because I wasn't a typical fundy kid but also because I found another nontypical fundy kid to get down and dirty with. But I also suspect that many of you would be surprised at how many so-called fundy kids are really just putting on an act to please their parents/avoid punishment/keep from being sent away to hell camp). I'd guess that at least half of the kids I grew up with bolted as soon as they were old enough, and the other half "fell away" into less fundy churches. I can't even think of one who still buys the party line.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
that is a lot similar to my feelings, too. i hated all the camps, the conferences, all the bullshit (not that you could tell by how i participated...i was a good actress). it didn't make sense, no matter how much i tried. i hated the restriction. most of the kids i know of aren't as religious, if they even are at all. only a few are still very strict.
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Okay, I'm going to share my experiences with purity culture. Be warned-- this will be long.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:
There is something to be said about women feeling ashamed when finally having sex with her husband after being told that sex was dirty for so long. I've heard about that happening, but it didn't happen to me. These were my major issues: 1) Sex is SUCH a big deal, 2) sex is WAY more "for him" than "for me," 3) my ex was a jerk, and 4) a nice overlay of general anxiety.

It's funny because fundies talk about not having sex so that a relationship has a strong emotional base and doesn't become all about the physical. But making sex such a BIG DEAL sometimes has the opposite effect. It's not like sex is just part of a marriage. Sex MAKES the marriage a marriage. It is a HUGE deal and conservative Christian culture is essentially obsessed with it-- who is having it and with whom, the best way to do it, the implications of sex, all of that. Now, I still think it's generally a good idea to take sex seriously, but evangelical culture completely idolizes it. It didn't help that my ex was a jerk, and before we even got married was subtly affecting the way I thought about sex. He would point out his buddy and his buddy's new wife and tell me that she stopped having sex with him or tell me it was awesome because they had sex all the time or point out a dating couple and comment that she had gained 40 pounds since they started seeing each other. Thinking back, I doubt he knew anything about his friends' sex lives. But I knew very well what was "good" and what was "bad" in his mind. And (anxiety/people pleaser) I was determined not to be "bad."

So when we got married, I was on my period which was a bummer (also, on birth control which I realize now probably affected my sex drive). But I HAD TO have sex with him (in my mind) because I was scared of being one of "those women." Plus, sex was more for him than it was for me (see above), and I wanted to be a good wife. Like I said... on my period... so any sort of foreplay or exploration was off the table. So yeah, it was really painful. I thought I was just bleeding because period, but when we had sex after my period was over a week or so later, I bled again.

Anyway, we had shitty sex on the honeymoon a few times, but it actually started to get better. However, it was like any time I asked him for anything or hinted at anything, I would get ignored. I was still new to everything and didn't know how to straight-up ask for stuff sexually. And when I did (I asked him to stop randomly grabbing my crotch during the day, among a few other small requests), he didn't comply. So I stopped enjoying it as much because of the things he wouldn't change. I figured it wasn't a big deal because sex was more for him than for me.

However, he could tell I wasn't super "into" it. And I definitely wasn't having orgasms! That really bothered him. He wanted me to physically enjoy sex, but when I told him it was fine and I really liked the emotional aspect of it, he told me he wanted me to enjoy it because it made him enjoy it more. In other words, even my pleasure was all about him-- he wanted to feel "manly" for pleasing me. (I'm now suspicious of anyone who seems overly invested in a partner's orgasm.) So I tried really, really hard to enjoy it, but it really just turned into an anxiety trigger for me. It felt like sex was this huge performance instead of an experience. And for me, it really is an experience. I can't masturbate or have sex with someone I don't care about-- it's not about pushing the right button for a physical reaction; it's about sharing an experience with someone. That's not better or worse than anything else, just the way that I work. So yeah, it went downhill very quickly. Of course, trying to enjoy sex is the best way to not be able to enjoy it, and I just found it bothersome and annoying. Like, thinking about being touched sexually would literally make me cringe. It still hurt most of the time, especially when he went hard/fast which he had to do in order to finish, so I would just do whatever I could to keep pain from showing on my face because if he saw that I was in pain, he'd get mad at me for letting him continue, but I felt like I couldn't tell him to stop because I didn't want to be one of "those" women who don't have sex with their husbands.

Anyway, he made me feel like it was all my fault. I was repressed because I couldn't enjoy sex. The fact that I didn't (still don't!) masturbate was proof of that. And I totally believed him because I had read about poor Christian girls who are unable to have healthy sex lives with their wonderful husbands because they have been brainwashed. Further proof was that I'm not a "sexy" person, especially outside the bedroom. Stuff like lingerie and strip-teases and sexy pick-up lines make me feel like I'm trying to be something I'm not. I don't think I was ever "myself" while having sex with him. And that was because he didn't want me. He wanted the angel on the streets, devil between the sheets type of person.

So then he cheated on me and left me. I wondered during the process if I might be asexual. I do still suspect I don't experience sexual attraction until there is an emotional connection. I felt like I was sexually broken and that I could never possibly find someone. About three minutes later, I started dating my boyfriend and *BAM* turns out I'm not asexual. Things are completely different. I've still been raised the same way, but being with someone who is not an asshat has made all the difference in the world. There have been moments where the shit that happened in my marriage has crept into my current relationship, but they are few and far between, and he has been so patient and understanding that they haven't kept cropping up.

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I just want to say, thank you for sharing your experience. This thread has been a real learning experience for me.

In my upbringing, the emphasis was never that sex was dirty, but it was for marriage. I never got the idea, as a young person, that was sex was for the guy only. There wasn't much sex talk, it sure wasn't like Duggarville! I think this might have been that a lot of SBC I grew up around practice birth control, so everything isn't about "making babies" and many of the wives were/are teachers. Teaching at public school is very common and limiting the number of children was also common.

People didn't discuss their sex lives, rarely even alluded to it. I remember one woman twisted her ankle and she was telling some of us ladies during choir practice that she twisted it while her hubs was chasing her around the bed. She was giggling like mad, and it was so shocking to me that she was telling us that! For years and years and years of attending SBC, that's the only time I can remember anyone talking about their personal sex life.

So I have no idea if sex is generally miserable for the kind of people I grew up around. I don't know now, and I don't want to know. No one ever advised me that sex was mainly for my husband and I should just endure it.

It does make me sad in my heart to think that something that could be so joyous and enjoyable, especially if you've "purposed to do it right" is instead akin to a chore or a duty for fundie wives.

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I just want to say, thank you for sharing your experience. This thread has been a real learning experience for me.

In my upbringing, the emphasis was never that sex was dirty, but it was for marriage. I never got the idea, as a young person, that was sex was for the guy only. There wasn't much sex talk, it sure wasn't like Duggarville! I think this might have been that a lot of SBC I grew up around practice birth control, so everything isn't about "making babies" and many of the wives were/are teachers. Teaching at public school is very common and limiting the number of children was also common.

People didn't discuss their sex lives, rarely even alluded to it. I remember one woman twisted her ankle and she was telling some of us ladies during choir practice that she twisted it while her hubs was chasing her around the bed. She was giggling like mad, and it was so shocking to me that she was telling us that! For years and years and years of attending SBC, that's the only time I can remember anyone talking about their personal sex life.

So I have no idea if sex is generally miserable for the kind of people I grew up around. I don't know now, and I don't want to know. No one ever advised me that sex was mainly for my husband and I should just endure it.

It does make me sad in my heart to think that something that could be so joyous and enjoyable, especially if you've "purposed to do it right" is instead akin to a chore or a duty for fundie wives.

I don't think that the religious view of sex used to be as harmful as it is today. I think that the current "purity culture" was birthed as a sort of religious response to the sexual liberation in the '70s and the AIDS crisis of the '80s. The result was an obsession with sexual purity revolving around shame. I feel like the movement gained momentum through the '90s and really peaked around the early 2000s, just when I was in high school.

Luckily, so many people (even those who believe 100% that sex is only for marriage) are currently critiquing the movement that I feel like it may be on its way out. We can only hope!

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I am reminded by this thread of the movie Marie Antoinette by Sophia Coppola and starring Kirsten Dunst, where the marriage of Marie A. and Louis XVI is not consummated for some time because they are bumbling amateurs. Finally Marie's brother takes the future king aside and discovering the king's hobby is locks and keys, explains how keys go in locks and so on and voila, soon the future queen is finally pregnant.

In a quote from the movie:

Maria Teresa: [in her letter to Marie Antoinette] Remember you represent the future and nothing is certain about your place there until the final physical act to crown the Franco-Austrian alliance is performed.

Makes me wonder if that's how "Fundie Royalty" families feel about their kids getting together...

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