Baby Dilly

[MatthewDuggar]

....like me getting my own show on tlc about my family and liking the money and fame but hate when strangers comment about my kids or my house. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Excellent point that sums it up nicely!

[eh02]

I am ALL for criticizing Jim Bob and Michelle for willingly putting themselves on TV. As much as I love watching the shit show, I think it's despicable that they profited off of people gawking at their children for a decade.

I don't really feel as strongly about the adult kids though. They have no skills or formal education to support themselves if they decide to leave, and they have been brainwashed with an irrational fear of the outside world and non-Christians. They likely feel trapped because they can either suck it up, never rebel at all and have financial security, or they can run off and do who knows what. I mean, if one of them, like Jana for example, made a run for it today, she'd be completely dependent on friends, family or strangers for support. Probably the only job she could get would be something like retail or food service, and tabloids would never leave the first Duggar to escape alone. I wouldn't be surprised if the adult kids even had some sort of contract stipulations saying that they can't be on another show or do interviews for X number of years if they leave.

I even feel sort of bad for Josh in this way. I doubt FRC is his dream job, and we all know he's no natural public speaker. His dad basically dug him a hole where his entire shtick is talking about fetuses - and there is no plan B. Sure, he could leave if he wanted, but he'd be taking his family from a very comfortable quality of life to likely one much closer to what Anna grew up with, and I don't think he'd be likely to do that.

It just really sucks that even the adult Duggar kids will be suffering from the choices Jim Bob and Michelle made for them for so long. I saw one of the really old specials recently and it almost (almost) made me feel bad for being so irritated by Josh. That kid never had a chance. He was the test run getting thrown out of the nest. I don't think Jim Bob and Michelle give two shits about Josh beyond him running around telling people how evil abortion is and who to vote for.

[Feberin]

Of course, there are plenty of other things I dislike about Josh that are open to fair criticism IMO. He's been on his own for 6? years now, so I think it's reasonable to hold him to a level of accountability for his actions as a "real adult," and of course I think everything FRC does is vile. Jill has barely been out of the house 5? months so I'm willing to give her a bit of time to see where she'll land with Derick. Honestly, so far she's managed to avoid saying anything offensive or stupid, so I'd say she's doing as well as I could have guessed. Of course, that doesn't mean she doesn't have the same beliefs as Josh and Jessa, but it does show she maybe has a bit more tact or gracefulness in how she approaches it.

I think everything the FRC does is vile too. And I definitely understand that Josh has been out of the house for a lot longer but he's always been criticized on here. I know since I've frequently been one of the people doing the criticism. Not saying that he hasn't earned it but I don't think it's fair to say that it's not fair to criticize Jill but her brother is fair game. JD also gets a lot of criticism and he still lives at home. Once again I'm not saying he shouldn't be criticized just that I think any of the Duggars especially the adult ones are fair game.

And I do think Jill deserves praise for the fact that she hasn't sprouted (to my knowledge) any of the uglier Duggar beliefs. It makes me really hope that maybe she is a little more open minded about certain things.

[VelociRapture]

I am ALL for criticizing Jim Bob and Michelle for willingly putting themselves on TV. As much as I love watching the shit show, I think it's despicable that they profited off of people gawking at their children for a decade.

I don't really feel as strongly about the adult kids though. They have no skills or formal education to support themselves if they decide to leave, and they have been brainwashed with an irrational fear of the outside world and non-Christians. They likely feel trapped because they can either suck it up, never rebel at all and have financial security, or they can run off and do who knows what. I mean, if one of them, like Jana for example, made a run for it today, she'd be completely dependent on friends, family or strangers for support. Probably the only job she could get would be something like retail or food service, and tabloids would never leave the first Duggar to escape alone. I wouldn't be surprised if the adult kids even had some sort of contract stipulations saying that they can't be on another show or do interviews for X number of years if they leave.

I even feel sort of bad for Josh in this way. I doubt FRC is his dream job, and we all know he's no natural public speaker. His dad basically dug him a hole where his entire shtick is talking about fetuses - and there is no plan B. Sure, he could leave if he wanted, but he'd be taking his family from a very comfortable quality of life to likely one much closer to what Anna grew up with, and I don't think he'd be likely to do that.

It just really sucks that even the adult Duggar kids will be suffering from the choices Jim Bob and Michelle made for them for so long. I saw one of the really old specials recently and it almost (almost) made me feel bad for being so irritated by Josh. That kid never had a chance. He was the test run getting thrown out of the nest. I don't think Jim Bob and Michelle give two shits about Josh beyond him running around telling people how evil abortion is and who to vote for.

I feel the same way about the kids. None of them chose to be born into this lifestyle. None of them would have an easy time surviving if they attempted to leave either.

Josh. . . I have felt very badly for him ever since I read that he once stated he wanted to be a lawyer when he was younger. This is a young man who clearly had dreams and ambitions that never came to fruition because his parents' beliefs didn't allow them to. The fact that he has such a well-paying and secure job will only make it tougher for him to leave if he wanted to because he is currently able to take pretty good care of his family. Leaving wouldn't allow that same level of comfort.

Same with the married girls. Ben doesn't have a job to fall back on at the moment, so leaving might not be the best option for them - who knows if his family would be willing to take them in if they decided to leave the Duggar lifestyle behind (they seem to be a bit extreme in their views at times). As for the Dillards, Derick has a good job but that rent-free arrangement has to be extremely appealing to a young couple facing first-time parenthood. Add to that the fact that Derick's family life hasn't been too stable between the loss of his father and his mother's illness and the fact that Jill clearly loves her family very much. . . it would probably be much tougher emotionally for them to cut ties than anything.

The extreme views that the Duggars have could take an extremely long time for any of the kids to work through. It could take years or decades for them to reach a point where they no longer see eye to eye with their parents on some things. As such, I tend to cut them more slack than I do their parents.

[SassyPants]

I used to think nothing could be worse (obviously there are worse, criminal, abusing parents etc...) than the Gosselins, but this is actually more damaging because the older Duggars are adults who are clearly emotionally and developmentally stunted. Most young women of 23 who had been studying for years, would have started a career...then gotten married and even if they did conceive on their HM, would have been far more able to handle all added responsibilities and intricacies presented because they would have been independently problem solving and navigating the world, at least partially on their own for years. The gas on/gas off parenting coupled with dumping of PARENTAL responsibilities while simultaneously denying age appropriate experiences and decision making opportunities is just insane- it pisses me off. What a mind screw for those poor kids.

[Firiel]

I like Jill. She reminds me of my older sister who is sometimes bossy and overbearing but who is a really great person. So I'm biased like that.

I think if Jessa goes fundie-lite, she will be the type to wear short jean shorts, get a job as a hairdresser, and drink socially but will still keep fighting against gay marriage and shaming women who have had abortions.

I think if Jill goes fundie-lite, she may still be a SAHM who dresses very conservatively but she will accept Catholics and liberal Christian denominations as fellow believers and will see loving others as much more important to her faith than legislating against gay marriage.

[EmmieJ]

They have to tear her apart for something. She's wrong if she's too happy, she's wrong if she's too sad. They're wrong if they talk too much, they're wrong if they don't talk enough. They're wrong if they dress too nicely, they're wrong if their outfits aren't coordinated and their hair is frizzy. Jim Bob's wrong if they're courting, he's wrong if they're not, they're wrong if they travel, they're wrong if they don't - it's ridiculous, but I guess it's the nature of a snark board. If it's a slow snark day/week/month/whatever people will just start inventing things. And when you're determined to hate someone, you're going to hate them no matter what they do.

Criticism is not the same thing as hatred. So sayeth one of "them".

[Toothfairy]

I don't know any family that has 10 adult children living at home with no jobs or schooling or just living life. I'm kinda glad fans are starting to question JimChelle beliefs and parenting skills

[SassyPants]

I don't know any family that has 10 adult children living at home with no jobs or schooling or just living life. I'm kinda glad fans are starting to question JimChelle beliefs and parenting skills

And if TLC is their job, then what do they have to show for such? Why can't they move out if they are each gainfully employed?

[singsingsing]

Criticism is not the same thing as hatred. So sayeth one of "them".

Yep, I know. I'm specifically referring to the people who get off on finding as much to insult about them as possible, not to genuine criticism, even if I disagree with some of it.

[YourGodIsNotMine]

I have to agree with this, and I'm not usually Jill's biggest defender. This is one of the side effects of the girls basically not being allowed to have any real, genuine friendships outside their family or hold a meaningful job. Most women wouldn't need to cling to their husband the way Jill is because they'd be at work themselves or have friends to go and have brunch with or whatever. Jill has no job and no friends and grew up with virtually 0 alone time so she doesn't know how to be content with her own company. Derick is basically the only 'friend' she has and she's not good with being alone so she clings onto him.

I'm hoping that after the baby, she meets some other conservative Christian moms she can be friends with. Derick seems to have friends outside his family as well, maybe some of them have partners Jill can befriend too. What Jill needs right now are friends who are not her husband and don't have the last name 'Duggar'.

But she's always clung to him. Traveling to Nepal, spending the whole wedding day with him...

[singsingsing]

Travelling to Nepal to meet him makes her clingy? Uhhh... what?! I'm like the absolute antithesis of a clingy person, and that seems perfectly reasonable to me. Who wouldn't want to meet the person they'd been talking to and falling in love with for months, and get some travelling in at the same time? She may be clingy for other reasons, I have no idea, but that's not one of them.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I'm not so sure that Jill's interactions with Derick on camera make her clingy at all. When I first met my husband, we were all over each other all the time. And we couldn't use age as an excuse, at least not for him, because he's older than I am. We were just both ridiculously happy to be together and in love.

Could be that Jill and Derick are still just so newly in love and happy that they enjoy being clingy with one another.

I could see it if Jill is having some trouble adjusting being away from her family and needs Derick to reassure her at times, but off camera, she could also be doing just fine while he's away. She sees her buddy team and the rest of her family regularly, and also has friends that she socializes with, if the pictures from New york are any indication.

[SassyPants]

Travelling to Nepal to meet him makes her clingy? Uhhh... what?! I'm like the absolute antithesis of a clingy person, and that seems perfectly reasonable to me. Who wouldn't want to meet the person they'd been talking to and falling in love with for months, and get some travelling in at the same time? She may be clingy for other reasons, I have no idea, but that's not one of them.

Traveling all the way around the world to pursue a man, especially when said man is returning to your own neighborhood within 2 months time does not seem reasonable to me, particularly when you factor in Gothard's belief that men pursue women and the Duggar's mission statement of buying used and saving the difference. As a parent, I would have said that waiting the 2 months would build character...life is not about instant gratification. The Duggars came off looking like hypocrites with this decision.

Jill made a request like a 5 yo would make a request, and JB acquiesced. Both ridiculous and unreasonable, IMO

[SassyPants]

How sad that everyone is talking about Jill as if she is some fragile, teeny bopper with special needs.

JB and Michelle should be so embarrassed for what they done (handicapping) their kids. It's a darn shame.

[twinmama]

I'm not so sure that Jill's interactions with Derick on camera make her clingy at all. When I first met my husband, we were all over each other all the time. And we couldn't use age as an excuse, at least not for him, because he's older than I am. We were just both ridiculously happy to be together and in love.

They are so close the start of their relationship that I think it makes total sense for her to be clingy to him! I wasn't clinging to my husband by the time we got married, but the first year or so we were together we spent ALL the time with each other (grad school together all day, together all evening/night). Could barely stand to be apart at all. He went home for Christmas that year for a month, and I went to join him many states away for 2 weeks of that. That's, IMO, the kind of thing that calms down after you've been together for a while. Just that most people don't marry while still in that obsessive phase!

[singsingsing]

I guess this is a personal opinion thing, but I've never, ever understood the backlash toward Jill for travelling to Nepal to meet him. People travel to meet long distance love interests all the time. She clearly likes to travel, and she was probably interested in his work over there, as she's expressed interest in being a missionary herself. Why wait two months when you can meet this person you're really interested in sooner, and get to experience a different country and culture at the same time? I seriously do not get the problem. At all. I think it's awesome that she went.

[keepin' it sweet]

I guess this is a personal opinion thing, but I've never, ever understood the backlash toward Jill for travelling to Nepal to meet him. People travel to meet long distance love interests all the time. She clearly likes to travel, and she was probably interested in his work over there, as she's expressed interest in being a missionary herself. Why wait two months when you can meet this person you're really interested in sooner, and get to experience a different country and culture at the same time? I seriously do not get the problem. At all. I think it's awesome that she went.

Also, when you consider that they didn't have to pay for the trip (I'm assuming TLC did), it kind of makes sense. See a new country, meet the person you've been talking to for a few months, and get a break from parenting your little siblings for a few days? Sounds like a decent deal to me.

[BrownieMomma]

I guess this is a personal opinion thing, but I've never, ever understood the backlash toward Jill for travelling to Nepal to meet him. People travel to meet long distance love interests all the time. She clearly likes to travel, and she was probably interested in his work over there, as she's expressed interest in being a missionary herself. Why wait two months when you can meet this person you're really interested in sooner, and get to experience a different country and culture at the same time? I seriously do not get the problem. At all. I think it's awesome that she went.

The only thing I can see is that you just don't relate to this conservative Christian thought.

The man chases the woman. Period. For Jill to go to Nepal to meet Derick is an exception to the rule, which of course rules always seem to be for other people, not the Duggars. Well heck, lets just be real honest, even simple manners and basic courtesy to others is not part of the Duggar "ministry." And honestly, we know that TLC had everything to do with this. If there was no TV show, Jim Bob would not have been jaunting off halfway around the world to chase a kid that is coming back to their immediate hometown in just two months. For one thing, he has a houseful of kids back home and wouldn't be off vacationing with his first-daughter-getting-married except she wasn't even that.

Another annoying thing was statements that Jessa was courting Ben. Well, probably that's really how JB sees it, that the Duggars are courting and vetting new family members, but traditionally you would say Ben is courting Jessa.

The Duggars "express a lot of interest" but really they just dabble at things here and there. Jill is probably never going to be a midwife and honestly, she will never go out on the mission field. These things would mean coming out from under JB and that's just not going to happen. Maybe, MAYBE, years and years down the road.

Whatever the Duggars express an interest in doesn't matter. Let's see something they do that is real, not just a dilettante dabble at it. I'd like to see that even one of those kids has a job or a real business that they have to report to a boss or clients to whom they are responsible. Don't see it, they all still live on their own super special Duggar time for which they are never under the authority of anyone else at any time. Derick working at Walmart must be a real stick in Jill's craw. Wonder if Derick has to work it like a real job or if he's a special snowflake there that can come and go as he pleases.

[SassyPants]

The only thing I can see is that you just don't relate to this conservative Christian thought.

The man chases the woman. Period. For Jill to go to Nepal to meet Derick is an exception to the rule, which of course rules always seem to be for other people, not the Duggars. Well heck, lets just be real honest, even simple manners and basic courtesy to others is not part of the Duggar "ministry." And honestly, we know that TLC had everything to do with this. If there was no TV show, Jim Bob would not have been jaunting off halfway around the world to chase a kid that is coming back to their immediate hometown in just two months. For one thing, he has a houseful of kids back home and wouldn't be off vacationing with his first-daughter-getting-married except she wasn't even that.

Another annoying thing was statements that Jessa was courting Ben. Well, probably that's really how JB sees it, that the Duggars are courting and vetting new family members, but traditionally you would say Ben is courting Jessa.

The Duggars "express a lot of interest" but really they just dabble at things here and there. Jill is probably never going to be a midwife and honestly, she will never go out on the mission field. These things would mean coming out from under JB and that's just not going to happen. Maybe, MAYBE, years and years down the road.

Whatever the Duggars express an interest in doesn't matter. Let's see something they do that is real, not just a dilettante dabble at it. I'd like to see that even one of those kids has a job or a real business that they have to report to a boss or clients to whom they are responsible. Don't see it, they all still live on their own super special Duggar time for which they are never under the authority of anyone else at any time. Derick working at Walmart must be a real stick in Jill's craw. Wonder if Derick has to work it like a real job or if he's a special snowflake there that can come and go as he pleases.

Brownie, I wish I could "thumbs up" your comment Xs100. Everything you have written is 100% spot on correct. The Duggars dabble, work on Duggar time, as long as things are easy, and follow Duggar rules. They do not even follow conservative Christian or Gothard rules much of the time.

Fake, fake, fake, fake fake describes the Duggars, their work ethic and their apparent religious beliefs.

They'll say and do just about anything for enough greenbacks.

[Kira]

The only thing I can see is that you just don't relate to this conservative Christian thought.

The man chases the woman. Period. For Jill to go to Nepal to meet Derick is an exception to the rule, which of course rules always seem to be for other people, not the Duggars. Well heck, lets just be real honest, even simple manners and basic courtesy to others is not part of the Duggar "ministry." And honestly, we know that TLC had everything to do with this. If there was no TV show, Jim Bob would not have been jaunting off halfway around the world to chase a kid that is coming back to their immediate hometown in just two months. For one thing, he has a houseful of kids back home and wouldn't be off vacationing with his first-daughter-getting-married except she wasn't even that.

Jill going to Nepal was not against the rules. She was going to meet the man she was going to court and marry. I'm sure I could find other ATI women who had to travel, maybe not out of the country, to get to know their future husbands.

Another annoying thing was statements that Jessa was courting Ben. Well, probably that's really how JB sees it, that the Duggars are courting and vetting new family members, but traditionally you would say Ben is courting Jessa.

This is silly. Lots of fundies say things like "Sarah is courting Matthew".

[BrownieMomma]

The only thing I can see is that you just don't relate to this conservative Christian thought.

The man chases the woman. Period. For Jill to go to Nepal to meet Derick is an exception to the rule, which of course rules always seem to be for other people, not the Duggars. Well heck, lets just be real honest, even simple manners and basic courtesy to others is not part of the Duggar "ministry." And honestly, we know that TLC had everything to do with this. If there was no TV show, Jim Bob would not have been jaunting off halfway around the world to chase a kid that is coming back to their immediate hometown in just two months. For one thing, he has a houseful of kids back home and wouldn't be off vacationing with his first-daughter-getting-married except she wasn't even that.

Jill going to Nepal was not against the rules. She was going to meet the man she was going to court and marry. I'm sure I could find other ATI women who had to travel, maybe not out of the country, to get to know their future husbands.

Another annoying thing was statements that Jessa was courting Ben. Well, probably that's really how JB sees it, that the Duggars are courting and vetting new family members, but traditionally you would say Ben is courting Jessa.

This is silly. Lots of fundies say things like "Sarah is courting Matthew".

I would like to know if you can find other fundie women who go chasing future husband possibilities, especially for the woman to take the trip, especially when the guy is coming home to the next town over which is his permanent residence.

My experience with fundie and fundie-lite culture is most decidedly NOT EVER that the woman is courting the man. The man courts the woman, or at most you might say the couple is courting, as a way to describe their relationship, but the implication that the woman courts the man, well, no.

That Nepal trip was a TLC thing, nothing more, nothing less. There was no reason for Jill to go, she thought she was in love with him but going to visit him in Nepal for a short vacay is not going to be enough to really know if this is going to be a person you can marry.

Even Derick himself said they knew a lot about each other but they don't know anything about being around each other.

Ben and Jessa have a much more ground-in-reality understanding of each other because they actually spent time together and around each other, as ridiculous as it was for Ben to move in the garage apartment, B&J have been in each other's actual physical company in a way that D&J were not.

What we see with the Duggars is that JB&M are all about the rules and making sure everyone else follows them, even their own children, right up to the point that it benefits JB&M to ignore the rules and then they do exactly what they want. Narcissistc to the core and "Christian ministry" is just the cover they use, I have never gotten a genuine feeling of Jesus from them.

[MatthewDuggar]

Considering Jill's upbringing and the fact that I personally felt she was going to be forever in a drunken state on the Kool-aid, I am glad she turned out "Clingy". She could have turned into a lady that is petrified of getting close to anyone.

[ladyaudley]

whatever happened to the weekly baby updates?

[singsingsing]

Please tell me why in God's name Jill needs some utilitarian reason to go to Nepal. Why? People travel purely for pleasure all the time. I literally cannot believe that this girl is being criticized for travelling abroad to meet her love interest in person when the same people are always complaining about how stifled, ignorant and inexperienced the Duggars are and how fundies don't get to know their spouses well enough before they marry. Now here she is taking the opportunity to travel to a new country, experience a different culture, and meet this guy she thinks she might want to marry in the environment he's been living and working for months, and she needs a better reason? Utter bullshit!