Baby Dilly

[Feberin]

I don't see how snarking on Jil is any different from snarking on Smuggar years ago right after he was married. People have always been hard on Josh including a lot of criticism for his weight and eating choices. I think he's gotten a lot worse comments then Jill has earned. And if we're going to say that the adult Duggar kids are responsible for their personalities then the same is true for Joshie. Sure now you can argue that he's had more years as an adult away from his parents but those of us who have been on this board for years were definitely not holding any punches back when Anna and him first got married.

[Coco]

Choosing to use a sibling as free labor is still snark worthy, regardless of everything else.

I don't know any brides who didn't have time to do plenty of their own preparation, even sewing: even brides who worked full-time. That was a character failing. That could have been prevented. And Jana pinned sewing tips on her pinterest board months before the wedding. It wasn't just a TLC scripted situation.

[calimojo]

I recently watched the Episode when Erin Bates got married, and noticed they mentioned that Michael(a) had sewn or altered all the bridesmaid dresses.

Maybe it is tradition that the oldest sister does this? Who knows. But I don't necessarily think that Jill intended to dump on Jana. We have seen enough of their lives on the show to see that both Jill and Jana are hard workers. I think the sewing issue falls to more than just Jill. Jana herself said that Jess and Jinger can also sew and that Joy is learning. So it seems to me, that Jess and Jinger could have also offered to help, instead of standing around eating bon-bons and having a tea party.

[SassyPants]

I don't see how snarking on Jil is any different from snarking on Smuggar years ago right after he was married. People have always been hard on Josh including a lot of criticism for his weight and eating choices. I think he's gotten a lot worse comments then Jill has earned. And if we're going to say that the adult Duggar kids are responsible for their personalities then the same is true for Joshie. Sure now you can argue that he's had more years as an adult away from his parents but those of us who have been on this board for years were definitely not holding any punches back when Anna and him first got married.

BINGO! Especially the part about snarking on his physical vessel- and JD's too. But then when it comes to the girls,some people get the vapors when anything negative is said.

What's good for one adult, is good for another, IMO.

Actions must meet all the words that have been spoken over the last few seasons, and if they do not, they, as adults living in the real world, should expect and anticipate criticism. I know for the 34 years that I worked as a nurse, I received an annual review- WE are the customers who get to review the D's performance. If it's too harsh, they can earn their living via other means. Personally, I'd welcome that...I doubt many of them would, at this point.

[BrownieMomma]

Of course we all speculate about their lives, but the general consensus here has been, as far as I can tell, that everyone genuinely wants good outcomes for the kids, and that most of the responsibility of this fundie mess are on the adults (JB+M) who inflicted this lifestyle on their kids. People are criticizing her (and Derick) for wanting to spend time together instead of just being relieved that, against seemingly awful odds, Jill managed to find someone who appears to be a great match for her.

It just seems like people are just tearing Jill apart for daring to actually be happy when that is (supposedly) all we ever wanted for any of the Duggar kids. Speculating for fun is one thing, and obviously that's fine (and I enjoy it - too much...) but I don't think there's any reason to be cruel or rude or joke about potential bad outcomes or troubles for them.

Do we want happiness for the Duggar kids? I, for one, am a lot more interested in them finding enlightenment and struggling their way out of the parent's eff'd up version of Christ.

I think Jill lucked out but I really do think Derick will someday wish he had not married Jill and gotten himself entangled in the Duggars. The only hope I see there is if he can get Jill out and away from her toxic parents. Then they might have a real chance.

[eh02]

BINGO! Especially the part about snarking on his physical vessel- and JD's too. But then when it comes to the girls,some people get the vapors when anything negative is said.

What's good for one adult, is good for another, IMO.

Actions must meet all the words that have been spoken over the last few seasons, and if they do not, they, as adults living in the real world, should expect and anticipate criticism. I know for the 34 years that I worked as a nurse, I received an annual review- WE are the customers who get to review the D's performance. If it's too harsh, they can earn their living via other means. Personally, I'd welcome that...I doubt many of them would, at this point.

Regarding Josh, personally, I think making comments about his weight and appearance is petty. Body shaming in general doesn't do any good for anyone, male or female, young or old. I am a new FJer so I wasn't around until recently, but I guess I'm just saying that I don't PERSONALLY think it is OK to make comments about how anyone looks, how much they weigh, to imply they're lazy etc. I think it's childish.

Of course, there are plenty of other things I dislike about Josh that are open to fair criticism IMO. He's been on his own for 6? years now, so I think it's reasonable to hold him to a level of accountability for his actions as a "real adult," and of course I think everything FRC does is vile. Jill has barely been out of the house 5? months so I'm willing to give her a bit of time to see where she'll land with Derick. Honestly, so far she's managed to avoid saying anything offensive or stupid, so I'd say she's doing as well as I could have guessed. Of course, that doesn't mean she doesn't have the same beliefs as Josh and Jessa, but it does show she maybe has a bit more tact or gracefulness in how she approaches it.

And Jessa and especially Ben are very young, so I'm willing to give them a few years to figure things out too. I just don't think it makes sense to have a lot of sympathy for them as minors in an extremely oppressive, stifling household and then immediately once they become adults expect them to do a 180. They've been groomed to believe a certain thing their ENTIRE lives. It can take a lot of time and soul searching to move past that.

Also, as much as I dislike just about everything Josh stands for professionally and personally, I honestly can't say much against how he's raised his kids and how he treats his wife. I think they seem to have a wonderful and very functional, happy family, so all things considered, Josh has done surprisingly well for being the first Duggar kid to attempt to make it on his own. I'm willing to give them credit where it's due - I think that's only fair. I think when he married Anna everyone really expected a baby every 9 months, Anna with her crunchy curly hair in a maternity frumper and Josh never finding a career outside of the car lot or JB's real estate in Northwest Arkansas. That said, I can't pretend I'd be sad if he lost his job because FRC went under...

[treemom]

I am not a fan of body snarling and don't do it myself in general (I once made a snarling comment about Jill Rodrigues and her husband). But others are perfectly fine with it. And others are fine with it because funnies are effectively body snacking with their insane comments about defrauding and modesty and countenance.

But I don't think snarling on Jill's lifestyle is cruel or wrong our out of line, even if I think personally most of it is overly harsh speculation. I mean what we do is really snark on a lifestyle.

[treemom]

So my iPad has taken to autocorrecting snarking to snarling.

[fabkiwi06]

I think the general feeling on this board is that we all wish those kids the very best and want them to have happy fulfilling lives of their own choosing. They are products of their very strict environment where we've watched many of them grow up over the years and are now coming of the age where they are starting to strike out on their own. Ultimately... they are just as deserving of joy and happiness as anyone else.

However...

I think it's fair game to comment on their choices they make in public. If Josh makes his weight gain a storyline... that's fair game. If Jessa says something really stupid on Instagram... that's fair game too. The way they present themselves on their TH is fair. The girls have all made such a big deal about "modesty" and needing to look nice for a man so that's fair.

All of those over 18 do have the ability to not say the actual words that come out of their mouth. Someone might feed them the general ideas, but all of them can be held accountable for their words and actions.

[Quiverfullofit]

I really wanted to make a joke but forgot about this board but now since you all are into talking about something else I don't think I can make my joke.

OH WELL. I'll do it anyway.

A couple of days ago Jill and Derick announced they are having a baby boy. So what do you think will be the name for this boy and when do you think they will announce the name?

If they have boy/girl twins later on they should name them Phillip and Lillian. Maybe have a son named Dylan too.

Phil, Lil, and Dil Dillard.

[Yoshimi]

I think the general feeling on this board is that we all wish those kids the very best and want them to have happy fulfilling lives of their own choosing. They are products of their very strict environment where we've watched many of them grow up over the years and are now coming of the age where they are starting to strike out on their own. Ultimately... they are just as deserving of joy and happiness as anyone else.

However...

I think it's fair game to comment on their choices they make in public. If Josh makes his weight gain a storyline... that's fair game. If Jessa says something really stupid on Instagram... that's fair game too. The way they present themselves on their TH is fair. The girls have all made such a big deal about "modesty" and needing to look nice for a man so that's fair.

All of those over 18 do have the ability to not say the actual words that come out of their mouth. Someone might feed them the general ideas, but all of them can be held accountable for their words and actions.

I think the issue I have with people’s comments on Jill (since she’s what started this whole discussion in the first place) is that it feels like the snarking has gotten way overboard to the point where it feels less snarky and more plain mean-spirited or cruel. I get that Jill is not everyone’s cup of tea but I don’t know if it’s really necessary for people to nitpick at every little thing she does for the sake of painting her as this incredibly nefarious, self-centered, bossy, (enter your own preferred adjective here), soulless person. People aren’t just attacking something she did but they seem intent on attacking her character. I don’t think she’s as horrible as some people make her out to be. I guess I try to see Jill from a more sympathetic perspective and realize that she’s just a human being like all of us with her own insecurities and issues, most of them a result of her upbringing which she had no control of. I wish there were more constructive discussions like that around here. Unfortunately things have gotten so one-sided lately with everyone wanting to jump on the “let’s bash Jill†bandwagon. There’s almost a bullying mentality to it that I find unsettling and it makes me not want to participate on this board as much. I don't know if there's others who feel the same way but that's just my opinion. :)

[bluebird]

Not 1 tiny bit of me agrees with Josh's politics however I do believe that he dearly loves Anna and his kids and visa versa for Anna.

[SassyPants]

I think the issue I have with people’s comments on Jill (since she’s what started this whole discussion in the first place) is that it feels like the snarking has gotten way overboard to the point where it feels less snarky and more plain mean-spirited or cruel. I get that Jill is not everyone’s cup of tea but I don’t know if it’s really necessary for people to nitpick at every little thing she does for the sake of painting her as this incredibly nefarious, self-centered, bossy, (enter your own preferred adjective here), soulless person. People aren’t just attacking something she did but they seem intent on attacking her character. I don’t think she’s as horrible as some people make her out to be. I guess I try to see Jill from a more sympathetic perspective and realize that she’s just a human being like all of us with her own insecurities and issues, most of them a result of her upbringing which she had no control of. I wish there were more constructive discussions like that around here. Unfortunately things have gotten so one-sided lately with everyone wanting to jump on the “let’s bash Jill†bandwagon. There’s almost a bullying mentality to it that I find unsettling and it makes me not want to participate on this board as much. I don't know if there's others who feel the same way but that's just my opinion. :)

Can you bully someone who you do not know, and with whom you have no actual communication whatsoever? Does Jill have internet access?

I have read plenty of snark re Jessa and Ben too.

I hope her marriage, L/D and future motherhood role all bode well because in Gothardism, that's all there is for an adult woman. I think many here were and are still anticipating, that Jill would rock the marriage and pregnancy gig.

[SassyPants]

Not 1 tiny bit of me agrees with Josh's politics however I do believe that he dearly loves Anna and his kids and visa versa for Anna.

The more I see of them, the more I enjoy their family. Moving to DC has done wonders for them. I hope they complete their family with a manageable number of kids. Let's face it, if this show has shown anything it's that no 2 people can effectively, lovingly and successfully manage and parent 19 children.

[VelociRapture]

Regarding Josh, personally, I think making comments about his weight and appearance is petty. Body shaming in general doesn't do any good for anyone, male or female, young or old. I am a new FJer so I wasn't around until recently, but I guess I'm just saying that I don't PERSONALLY think it is OK to make comments about how anyone looks, how much they weigh, to imply they're lazy etc. I think it's childish.

Of course, there are plenty of other things I dislike about Josh that are open to fair criticism IMO. He's been on his own for 6? years now, so I think it's reasonable to hold him to a level of accountability for his actions as a "real adult," and of course I think everything FRC does is vile. Jill has barely been out of the house 5? months so I'm willing to give her a bit of time to see where she'll land with Derick. Honestly, so far she's managed to avoid saying anything offensive or stupid, so I'd say she's doing as well as I could have guessed. Of course, that doesn't mean she doesn't have the same beliefs as Josh and Jessa, but it does show she maybe has a bit more tact or gracefulness in how she approaches it.

And Jessa and especially Ben are very young, so I'm willing to give them a few years to figure things out too. I just don't think it makes sense to have a lot of sympathy for them as minors in an extremely oppressive, stifling household and then immediately once they become adults expect them to do a 180. They've been groomed to believe a certain thing their ENTIRE lives. It can take a lot of time and soul searching to move past that.

Also, as much as I dislike just about everything Josh stands for professionally and personally, I honestly can't say much against how he's raised his kids and how he treats his wife. I think they seem to have a wonderful and very functional, happy family, so all things considered, Josh has done surprisingly well for being the first Duggar kid to attempt to make it on his own. I'm willing to give them credit where it's due - I think that's only fair. I think when he married Anna everyone really expected a baby every 9 months, Anna with her crunchy curly hair in a maternity frumper and Josh never finding a career outside of the car lot or JB's real estate in Northwest Arkansas. That said, I can't pretend I'd be sad if he lost his job because FRC went under...

I'm new to the boards too and I feel the same way. I totally understand why people snark on their appearances and everything - they open themselves up to that kind of criticism by harping about it so much. I also know that most of the people making those comments are really just commenting on how twisted the ideology is and not trying to make it a personal attack on the actual person.

That said, I try not to participate because I honestly feel badly for all the kids more than anything and I don't think that snarking on appearances is going to really help any. If the Duggar kids somehow stumbled across this board today, I honestly think it would harden them more towards the outside world to see comments poking fun at their looks. . . and I think that's that last thing anyone here really wants for those kids.

I completely agree about giving the kids time to figure things out before they should really be held accountable for anything they say or do - even Josh and Anna need to be given the benefit of the doubt. As you pointed out, they've been indoctrinated with these beliefs their entire lives and that sort of brainwashing can take years or decades to undo.

Josh isn't going to wake up one morning, decide he was completely wrong about everything, and quit his job. Jessa and Ben won't turn to each other without warning, agree they know nothing about the Holocaust or abortion, and then run off to a public University to earn degrees in History and Medicine. And Jill isn't going to magically realize that she doesn't need to be constantly barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen in order to be a Godly woman. . . at least she, and the others, won't realize these things for a long time.

[SassyPants]

Here's your sign:

If you have to take roll call to confirm that all are present before you depart a venue, VS taking a mere glance into the back of the vehicle, you have too many kids to safely manage.

[VelociRapture]

Can you bully someone who you do not know, and with whom you have no actual communication whatsoever? Does Jill have internet access?

I have read plenty of snark re Jessa and Ben too.

I hope her marriage, L/D and future motherhood role all bode well because in Gothardism, that's all there is for an adult woman. I think many here were and are still anticipating, that Jill would rock the marriage and pregnancy gig.

To the bolded, heres an interesting article I found regarding the question of bullying someone you don't know (link not broken because it's New York Magazine):

http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/04/can-you ... brity.html

In it, they discuss that there can be instances where a celebrity is the target of internet bullying - they specifically mention the hatred directed towards Anne Hathaway a few years ago - however, the general consensus seems to be that the victim has to be less powerful than the person doing the bullying. Most cases involving celebrities don't fall into that category and, thus, probably wouldn't be seen as bullying in that sense.

However, I do think that its important to keep in mind any psychological ramifications our words may have on people like Jill or Jessa. These are young women who have been raised to believe their only purpose in life is to look pretty, have a ton of kids, and always do as their father/husband says. Pointing out flaws in their physical appearance, while fair game because of the emphasis they place on it, could be much more damaging to them than to another person because their sense of self-worth seems to be more closely tied to it.

As for whether Jill has internet access, she does. Whether there are limits placed on it or not is nothing something I am aware of. Derick would be the one who would decide that. So it is entirely possible that Jill (or Jessa or Anna or Josh) could stumble across the things written here one day.

[fabkiwi06]

I really do like Jill. I think that's why I'm so "harsh" on her so to speak.... because I really do want her to do well. I think she and I are the same personality and I get her annoying, nit picky nature. We don't choose the Boss life... it chooses us!

I also think Jill is smarter than we're giving her credit for. She played up her storyline for the show and is now quietly settling in to married life and impending motherhood without too much of a fanfare. Yeah, she did press for the show... but really other than that, the Dilly show is pretty quiet. Not really much left to snark on until that baby comes.

[VelociRapture]

I think the issue I have with people’s comments on Jill (since she’s what started this whole discussion in the first place) is that it feels like the snarking has gotten way overboard to the point where it feels less snarky and more plain mean-spirited or cruel. I get that Jill is not everyone’s cup of tea but I don’t know if it’s really necessary for people to nitpick at every little thing she does for the sake of painting her as this incredibly nefarious, self-centered, bossy, (enter your own preferred adjective here), soulless person. People aren’t just attacking something she did but they seem intent on attacking her character. I don’t think she’s as horrible as some people make her out to be. I guess I try to see Jill from a more sympathetic perspective and realize that she’s just a human being like all of us with her own insecurities and issues, most of them a result of her upbringing which she had no control of. I wish there were more constructive discussions like that around here. Unfortunately things have gotten so one-sided lately with everyone wanting to jump on the “let’s bash Jill†bandwagon. There’s almost a bullying mentality to it that I find unsettling and it makes me not want to participate on this board as much. I don't know if there's others who feel the same way but that's just my opinion. :)

Exactly. I think we tend to forget that we see only a tiny fraction of their actual lives and that what we do get to see is heavily edited to look a certain way. People here seem to take what they have been given and speculate endlessly on what it could actually mean about the person - in reality, it's highly likely that it says more about the storyline the network wants to highlight than it does about the actual person.

I feel badly for all the kids, but especially Jill right now because of this. She hasn't said or done anything seriously wrong or offensive - in fact, I think she's done a rather decent job at staying uncontroversial in the public eye so far. Yet still she is the subject of a lot of negative comments on here.

I get that Jill isn't perfect - none of those kids, even the favorites around here, are. I get that she seems more indoctrinated than some of the other kids and that she seems perfectly content with her lifestyle. I get that she annoys some people. . . but I think people need to remember that she is still a human being and she has feelings. And I also think people need to remember that her buddies wouldn't have been so upset over her getting married if she wasn't a half-way decent human being.

[SassyPants]

To the bolded, heres an interesting article I found regarding the question of bullying someone you don't know (link not broken because it's New York Magazine):

http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/04/can-you ... brity.html

In it, they discuss that there can be instances where a celebrity is the target of internet bullying - they specifically mention the hatred directed towards Anne Hathaway a few years ago - however, the general consensus seems to be that the victim has to be less powerful than the person doing the bullying. Most cases involving celebrities don't fall into that category and, thus, probably wouldn't be seen as bullying in that sense.

However, I do think that its important to keep in mind any psychological ramifications our words may have on people like Jill or Jessa. These are young women who have been raised to believe their only purpose in life is to look pretty, have a ton of kids, and always do as their father/husband says. Pointing out flaws in their physical appearance, while fair game because of the emphasis they place on it, could be much more damaging to them than to another person because their sense of self-worth seems to be more closely tied to it.

As for whether Jill has internet access, she does. Whether there are limits placed on it or not is nothing something I am aware of. Derick would be the one who would decide that. So it is entirely possible that Jill (or Jessa or Anna or Josh) could stumble across the things written here one day.

Above all else, I want the Duggar offspring to know that they have options and that they are strong enough, everyone of those adults, are strong enough and bright enough to exercise any, and all of those options. I think Jessa's decisions shown both in the engagement episode and in what we know of the Seewald wedding ceremony were applauded here for a reason. Jessa stood up and made some of her own decisions...and 10 days later, she's still navigating the planet. Down deep, JB and M are a whole lot of hot air...hot air that controls the money, but still. Derick and Jill do not need JB's money, rental property or approval.

[VelociRapture]

Above all else, I want the Duggar offspring to know that they have options and that they are strong enough, everyone of those adults, are strong enough and bright enough to exercise any, and all of those options. I think Jessa's decisions shown both in the engagement episode and in what we know of the Seewald wedding ceremony were applauded here for a reason. Jessa stood up and made some of her own decisions...and 10 days later, she's still navigating the planet. Down deep, JB and M are a whole lot of hot air...hot air that controls the money, but still. Derick and Jill do not need JB's money, rental property or approval.

You are correct that Jessa and Ben were applauded here for making their own choices. However, I think it is unfair that people did the same thing for Jill and Derick and then immediately turned on them the second they got sick of this season and found out that Jill got pregnant immediately. How do we know that this isn't exactly what Jill and Derick wanted? They made a choice that was right for them and their situation - not using birth control and getting pregnant right away. I guess I just find it hypocritical that people will praise Jessa for making the right choice for her, yet they blast Jill for doing the same thing. Why is it ok for us to tell these kids how to live, yet it's wrong for their parents to do the very same thing?

I also find it a bit tiring that people are praising Jessa's wedding so much. People did the same thing right after pictures were released from Jill's wedding - saying that she seemed so happy and how glad people were that she was able to make choices right for her. Now, after seeing the wedding on tv and seeing this season drag on, people are saying it was cheesy and horrible. How do we know Jessa's won't turn out the same way?

[SassyPants]

You are correct that Jessa and Ben were applauded here for making their own choices. However, I think it is unfair that people did the same thing for Jill and Derick and then immediately turned on them the second they got sick of this season and found out that Jill got pregnant immediately. How do we know that this isn't exactly what Jill and Derick wanted? They made a choice that was right for them and their situation - not using birth control and getting pregnant right away. I guess I just find it hypocritical that people will praise Jessa for making the right choice for her, yet they blast Jill for doing the same thing. Why is it ok for us to tell these kids how to live, yet it's wrong for their parents to do the very same thing?

I also find it a bit tiring that people are praising Jessa's wedding so much. People did the same thing right after pictures were released from Jill's wedding - saying that she seemed so happy and how glad people were that she was able to make choices right for her. Now, after seeing the wedding on tv and seeing this season drag on, people are saying it was cheesy and horrible. How do we know Jessa's won't turn out the same way?

People are likely to comment on Jessa's wedding, you are right, especially if prior to seeing the wedding, the viewing public is treated to an entire season of Jessa- These folks are a product... and consumers will comment on products, and that evaluation will never stop-just as it doesn't for any other product. The screwed up timeline only makes people snark more, IMO-

[Coco]

Re: cyber-bullying celebrities -- A lot of people on this forum are ex-fundies, and i think that comes into play with how we comment about the fundie royalty. When a person grows up stifled and is kept from making comments about dysfunction their entire lives, it's easy to project their own issues onto someone famous, as a way to work through the past. Free therapy.

But i've learned that what happens on the 19K&C TV show isn't necessarily real life for the actual Duggar kids. So i'm going to back down on my snark. And when i did snark, it was because of my own family issues from the past. We don't know these people really, and it's becoming obvious that even what's shown is often fake. So, my apologies for my negative comments. I'm going to be much more considerate in the future.

[Toothfairy]

We don't know the Duggars in real life but they're in the public eye. I'm not saying it's right but that's what happens when you're on tv. If you don't want people talking stay off tv and magazine covers. That's like me getting my own show on tlc about my family and liking the money and fame but hate when strangers comment about my kids or my house. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I feel bad for the kids that they had to live this lifestyle because it's not their fault they're uneducated and have ass holes as parents. But I see it as fair game. If you don't want people talking about you stay off social media, tv, and everything else that's public.

[SassyPants]

We don't know the Duggars in real life but they're in the public eye. I'm not saying it's right but that's what happens when you're on tv. If you don't want people talking stay off tv and magazine covers. That's like me getting my own show on tlc about my family and liking the money and fame but hate when strangers comment about my kids or my house. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I feel bad for the kids that they had to live this lifestyle because it's not their fault they're uneducated and have ass holes as parents. But I see it as fair game. If you don't want people talking about you stay off social media, tv, and everything else that's public.

True. And without that interest, there would be no show.

Plus, the "kids" we are currently discussing are not children- they are grown adults. Adult enough to marry and procreate. Old enough to voice and make decisions all on their own.