Duggars Need to Free Their Children

[LongDogMom]

Radar Online today had an article entitled The Duggars Need to Free Their Children

(see:http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/10/duggar-family-paul-lamar-hunter-no-love-no-charity-jim-bob-duggar-michelle-duggar-arkansas-19-kids-and-counting-jana-duggar/)

 

The article is about a man named Paul Lamar Hunter who says he grew up in a similar household as the 19th child of a 21 sibling family. He states: “It is not [kids’] responsibility to have to raise their brothers and sisters,†Paul Lamar Hunter, who is the 19th child of a 21-sibling family, tells RadarOnline.com exclusively. “It is Jim Bob and Michelle’s job to be the parents.â€

 

I'm not sure this guy grew up in as strictly religious a home as the Duggars but he certainly feels that it will only create resentment in the older children who have parental responsibilies thrust upon them at the expense of their own childhoods (and in the Duggars case...pretty much at the expense of their own lives since they never get to do anything else, ie: no teen fun years, no prom, no dating, no college, etc.). He says in his own family his mother was overly devoted to a homeless shelter and left her older children to parent her younger ones and those older daughters later felt such anger and resentment that they no longer speak to their mother.

 

The article raises the issue of Jana, who has been coming up a lot on various sites of late after the episode aired of her having to alter the bridesmaids dresses and make the ties while the others went off to lunch. People feel Jana is a real Cinderella who is getting the short end of the stick and I think public opinion is turning on the Duggars.

 

A lot of people liked their show when their kids were little and it just seemed like *good old fashioned Christian values with family helping each other out* but as the kids have grown and turned into young adults, people are starting to question the extreme restrictions that the Duggars have placed on their kids from not allowing them to go to college and have a real career to never letting them be alone or go out with friends and just have fun as teens and young adults. Many people have been questioning that if the Duggars trust their kids to do the right things, why the heavy surveillance, especially as they get into their twenties?!! And people also think it's really odd and disturbing to see young women in their twenties sharing a room and often a bed with their little siblings. People see Michelle and Boob desperate for another child but don't seem to parent the ones they have, and the heavy courtship rules are beyond the pale for even many fundamental Christians. In fact, I saw an article today about the Duck Dynasty daughter, who clearly has decided to save herself for marriage, but their are pictures with her boyfriend and they are touching and dancing on the beach (front to front) and she is wearing a sleeveless and more normal-for-her-age outfit.

 

I think the tide of public opinion is starting to change and people are moving away from how cute it all is, and how do they organize all those kids curiosity to the feeling that things are not right and that the Duggars aren't protecting their kids, they are crushing them and stealing their youth, their dreams and turning them into brainwashed slaves who aren't allowed to think a single thought of their own. While they might've been a role model for some in the beginning (those who thought they were all about family values and togetherness), they aren't such a great role model anymore! Who wants their young daughter to marry an immature teenage guy with no real education or job prospects? It's as if "being Godly" is all that matters in the Duggar home (and it has to be their definition of Godly).

 

Do you think we'll keep seeing more and more of these types of articles and more questions about their treatment of Jana? Do you think it'll make Jim Bob and Michelle do anything to try to change public opinion on how they are treating their oldest daughter?

[LongDogMom]

Nothing like replying to my own post but I was just thinking of that poem: If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it was yours. If it doesn't, it never was.

The Duggars are so scared to set their children free. And even worse, they have denied them a real life of their own because of it, calling it love and protection which is BS. They are just selfish and controlling.

My boys are both in their twenties now and they may not always make the choices I would wish they would make, but they are happy and excited with their lives and I am supportive of them learning what they love and what makes them happy and pursuing a path in that direction. To stifle their personalities into what *I* want? I can't even imagine that ...that is horrific abuse imo. We homeschooled for a number of years (not for religious reaons), and we tried to open as many doors as possible for our kids. To show them all the amazing things in the world and all the amazing things they could choose to do and learn about. The Duggars, otoh, have slammed and locked all those doors. The only doors the girls have open is mother and helpmate. That is really sad and cruel imo.

I'm not against being a stay-a-home wife and mom (I quit my own job to be one when my oldest son was born), but that was MY choice and prior to it I had lived on my own, gotten a university degree, experienced living with someone, worked in various fields and for various companies and knew, from my own past of growing up without anyone home and being on my own a lot, that I wanted to be there for my kids if at all possible. And we skimped and saved to make it happen. These girls don't have a clear choice. How can they when they have experienced nothing on their own? Do they even really know themselves? So many things are off limits and forbidden to them.

[fabkiwi06]

I hope articles like this don't backfire on the kids still at home. I hope that Jana isn't getting more crap piled on her because people are starting to question her role in the house and call it for what it is.

I also hope that more people start coming forward like this dude. I think a majority of the Duggar's fans don't know the sheer extremism behind the show. I mean... I was kinda pro-Duggars until I started reading in to the theology behind it. Once you find out about the Blanket Training... it's a downhill slope from there.

[SassyPants]

I agree. In the beginning, all the kids were minors, but now what bothers me most is how the later teens and young adults are treated. Once one reaches the age of 18, one should be able to do what ever they like within the confines of the law. Moving away, going to college, getting a job should all be available and acceptable options.

In their quest for control, purity and expanding the ranks, the Duggars have severely limited their adult children's options, which is criminal, IMO. As kids grow up, the goals expand and evolve, if independent life is the desired outcome.

I think what the Duggars have done to their kids is more of a net negative than a positive.

[SassyPants]

I just thought of something else and maybe it should be a thread all on its own.

Can anyone explain the logic: The Duggar young adults are only allowed to court. Courting adds others in tp the relationship as accountability partners. So, up until the moment the vows are sealed with that first kiss, the couple needs a third party to keep them pure and on the up and up- in all things, from texts, to conversations and special dates (for lack of a better word). Yet, with those vows and within the span of mere minutes, these couples are all of a sudden thought to have every maturity and responsibility of any other adult??? And the males, are actually in charge as a headship??

SERIOUSLY, how can anyone logically think that people work this way?

Ben is not going to be anything beyond an insolent, uneducated, unemployed beyond the family job 19 yo boy at 12:00 on 11/1, vs who he was at 10:59 on that same morning.

Lack of critical thinking

Heavy reliance on fantasyland thinking

[doggie]

I thought the duggers were the ultimate helicopter parents. but they are also lawnmower parents. they mow down any obstacle in their child's path wile protecting them from the grass they need to walk on.

[SassyPants]

I thought the duggers were the ultimate helicopter parents. but they are also lawnmower parents. they mow down any obstacle in their child's path wile protecting them from the grass they need to walk on.

And really, does anyone get any warm and fuzzies re Michelle's relationship with ANY of the kids? Not even the miracle Josie is shown over concern.

Worried about frontal hugs, kisses, purity and 1:1 relationships with regards to their adult offspring, but no concern at all for nutrition, education, personal safety, teaching, coaching, guiding or mentoring for ANY of the youngsters along the way.

They care about certain obscure aspects, but nothing for the whole being-

[CorruptionInc.]

And really, does anyone get any warm and fuzzies re Michelle's relationship with ANY of the kids? Not even the miracle Josie is shown over concern.

Worried about frontal hugs, kisses, purity and 1:1 relationships with regards to their adult offspring, but no concern at all for nutrition, education, personal safety, teaching, coaching, guiding or mentoring for ANY of the youngsters along the way.

They care about certain obscure aspects, but nothing for the whole being-

There is NOTHING warm and fuzzy about Mullet.

[Letgo]

I just thought of something else and maybe it should be a thread all on its own.

Can anyone explain the logic: The Duggar young adults are only allowed to court. Courting adds others in tp the relationship as accountability partners. So, up until the moment the vows are sealed with that first kiss, the couple needs a third party to keep them pure and on the up and up- in all things, from texts, to conversations and special dates (for lack of a better word). Yet, with those vows and within the span of mere minutes, these couples are all of a sudden thought to have every maturity and responsibility of any other adult??? And the males, are actually in charge as a headship??

SERIOUSLY, how can anyone logically think that people work this way?

Ben is not going to be anything beyond an insolent, uneducated, unemployed beyond the family job 19 yo boy at 12:00 on 11/1, vs who he was at 10:59 on that same morning.

Lack of critical thinking

Heavy reliance on fantasyland thinking

Another question...In an early show Michelle said that the goal of raising children was to have them be pretty much done by age 12. They think that the child should be "trained" well enough to be a functioning person on his or her own, without the need for parental discipline. They ought to know how to discipline themselves, make good choices, know right from wrong and avoid sin. So why the extreme courtship rules? If they train the children so well by age 12, shouldn't they be able to handle relationships at ages 18 on up? I know they are going to say it is for accountability and to avoid even the appearance of sin. So does marriage mysteriously fix that? Jill is home alone now, no required chaperone, no family. How did her need for accountability of every moment disappear? Same with Anna. Any married person could be doing things he or she shouldn't. So why the extreme rules for kids at home? Is it really just all about purity for unmarried adults?

[SassyPants]

Another question...In an early show Michelle said that the goal of raising children was to have them be pretty much done by age 12. They think that the child should be "trained" well enough to be a functioning person on his or her own, without the need for parental discipline. They ought to know how to discipline themselves, make good choices, know right from wrong and avoid sin. So why the extreme courtship rules? If they train the children so well by age 12, shouldn't they be able to handle relationships at ages 18 on up? I know they are going to say it is for accountability and to avoid even the appearance of sin. So does marriage mysteriously fix that? Jill is home alone now, no required chaperone, no family. How did her need for accountability of every moment disappear? Same with Anna. Any married person could be doing things he or she shouldn't. So why the extreme rules for kids at home? Is it really just all about purity for unmarried adults?

EXACTLY!

EVERYTHING is about purity for unmarried persons.

They don't care about health, nutrition, proper exercise, education, marketable skills, looking like fools and hypocrites or even actually raising their kids to be useful.

If you take away the purity issue, that house is like Lord of the Flies-

[LongDogMom]

I just thought of something else and maybe it should be a thread all on its own.

Can anyone explain the logic: The Duggar young adults are only allowed to court. Courting adds others in tp the relationship as accountability partners. So, up until the moment the vows are sealed with that first kiss, the couple needs a third party to keep them pure and on the up and up- in all things, from texts, to conversations and special dates (for lack of a better word). Yet, with those vows and within the span of mere minutes, these couples are all of a sudden thought to have every maturity and responsibility of any other adult??? And the males, are actually in charge as a headship??SERIOUSLY, how can anyone logically think that people work this way?

Ben is not going to be anything beyond an insolent, uneducated, unemployed beyond the family job 19 yo boy at 12:00 on 11/1, vs who he was at 10:59 on that same morning.

Lack of critical thinking

Heavy reliance on fantasyland thinking

Yeah, it's not very rational thinking. They are sooooo scared that the kids might have sex before marriage that they can't do anything that might tempt them, but after marriage it's suddenly okay. Clearly they don't trust their kids to have the self control to follow boundaries they supposedly have set themselves. It's all so stupid. Big surprise that there is no critical thinking about it.

I've also noticed that the Duggars interaction with each other and others is very superficial and seems to be lacking in real genuine feeling. They talk a lot about how much they will miss Jill or Jessa, but I never see them interact on what feels like a truly emotional level. They don't seem to think about the feelings of their children and thus, the siblings don't think of each others feelings or seem to have any empathy...like putting so much work to make the dress alterations and ties on Jana and leaving her working while they all go out to enjoy themselves. Who does that? They don't consider her feelings ...they just expect and take for granted. It's like because they SAY (to the camera) how much help the girls are and how they are so grateful, that that is enough. Words are easy. They rarely hug their kids with any real emotion or even have deep emotional converations. But I guess there's no point because that might lead to a child saying they want something different like a career or moving to a city or wanting to go to university and they don't want to hear that. So better not to allow any kind of deep conversations that would encourage such revelations.

The girls read pre=approved books like Some Day My Prince Will Come, so of course everything is sort of scripted like some superficial fairytale. So Ben says flowery things to Jessa that are ridiculous and unrealistic and they don't talk about anything really deep or personal. How can they? They have never had encouragement to have deep thoughts or express fears or dreams or doubts, not to mention never being alone. It's all so surface and superficial and fake like they are acting in some weird play instead of reality. Like you said with Ben...who is he? How is he any kind of catch in the REAL WORLD. He has no real education. No job, no prospects and clearly has much more growing to do emotionally. But according to JB he's "Godly" so clearly that's all that is important. And since he's young and horny and wants to have sex constantly, there's a big rush to get him married off before anything natural happens. So this Saturday Jessa and Ben will marry...basically so they can have sex. And since they don't believe in birth control, she'll be pregnant before their 6 month wedding anniversary. And on it goes.

They are all living in some fantasy because they have not prepared their children for success in the real world. They have crippled them and made them only ready for doing what the Duggars want them to do...have lots of babies for God's Army.

[LongDogMom]

Another question...In an early show Michelle said that the goal of raising children was to have them be pretty much done by age 12. They think that the child should be "trained" well enough to be a functioning person on his or her own, without the need for parental discipline. They ought to know how to discipline themselves, make good choices, know right from wrong and avoid sin. So why the extreme courtship rules? If they train the children so well by age 12, shouldn't they be able to handle relationships at ages 18 on up? I know they are going to say it is for accountability and to avoid even the appearance of sin. So does marriage mysteriously fix that? Jill is home alone now, no required chaperone, no family. How did her need for accountability of every moment disappear? Same with Anna. Any married person could be doing things he or she shouldn't. So why the extreme rules for kids at home? Is it really just all about purity for unmarried adults?

Yes, yes it is really all about that for them. :pink-shock:

[whitegirl22]

No. it is about the bloodline. Just like olden times

[Toothfairy]

Yeah, it's not very rational thinking. They are sooooo scared that the kids might have sex before marriage that they can't do anything that might tempt them, but after marriage it's suddenly okay. Clearly they don't trust their kids to have the self control to follow boundaries they supposedly have set themselves. It's all so stupid. Big surprise that there is no critical thinking about it.

I've also noticed that the Duggars interaction with each other and others is very superficial and seems to be lacking in real genuine feeling. They talk a lot about how much they will miss Jill or Jessa, but I never see them interact on what feels like a truly emotional level. They don't seem to think about the feelings of their children and thus, the siblings don't think of each others feelings or seem to have any empathy...like putting so much work to make the dress alterations and ties on Jana and leaving her working while they all go out to enjoy themselves. Who does that? They don't consider her feelings ...they just expect and take for granted. It's like because they SAY (to the camera) how much help the girls are and how they are so grateful, that that is enough. Words are easy. They rarely hug their kids with any real emotion or even have deep emotional converations. But I guess there's no point because that might lead to a child saying they want something different like a career or moving to a city or wanting to go to university and they don't want to hear that. So better not to allow any kind of deep conversations that would encourage such revelations.

The girls read pre=approved books like Some Day My Prince Will Come, so of course everything is sort of scripted like some superficial fairytale. So Ben says flowery things to Jessa that are ridiculous and unrealistic and they don't talk about anything really deep or personal. How can they? They have never had encouragement to have deep thoughts or express fears or dreams or doubts, not to mention never being alone. It's all so surface and superficial and fake like they are acting in some weird play instead of reality. Like you said with Ben...who is he? How is he any kind of catch in the REAL WORLD. He has no real education. No job, no prospects and clearly has much more growing to do emotionally. But according to JB he's "Godly" so clearly that's all that is important. And since he's young and horny and wants to have sex constantly, there's a big rush to get him married off before anything natural happens. So this Saturday Jessa and Ben will marry...basically so they can have sex. And since they don't believe in birth control, she'll be pregnant before their 6 month wedding anniversary. And on it goes.

They are all living in some fantasy because they have not prepared their children for success in the real world. They have crippled them and made them only ready for doing what the Duggars want them to do...have lots of babies for God's Army.

I just don't understand what's so bad about having g sex before marriage? Some people stay virgins for life, other lose it before or after marriage. So what's the problem, to each is owb

[CorruptionInc.]

I just don't understand what's so bad about having g sex before marriage? Some people stay virgins for life, other lose it before or after marriage. So what's the problem, to each his own

Because the Duggars believe in breeding Godly serving robots...

[nolongerIFBx]

Many people have been questioning that if the Duggars trust their kids to do the right things, why the heavy surveillance, especially as they get into their twenties?!!

The Duggars are so scared to set their children free. And even worse, they have denied them a real life of their own because of it, calling it love and protection which is BS.

In my opinion, this is the danger of fundyism. There are rules to follow so you never have to make any other decision but follow the rules and there is a taskmaster-- your parents or the preacher-- making sure that you follow these rules. You never have the opportunity to choose for yourself (or if a Christian, to learn to follow the Holy Spirit's prompting); you're just blindly following a set of rules that makes you appear like a good person. Frankly, I don't care if the girls never wear a pair of pants, hold hands or kiss a boy they're not married to, or listen to secular music. I care about the fact that they never get to explore a relationship with God that is more than one of following rules to look good or to even explore if they want a relationship with God. Obviously, my concern comes from a Christian POV, but the Duggars have ruined so much of real Christianity for their children and they don't even realize it because they are checking off all the boxes of what the rules tell them they are supposed to look, act, and feel. :pull-hair:

[BrownieMomma]

Because the Duggars believe in breeding Godly serving robots...

For Christians, sex outside marriage is fornication, which is a sin.

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

I think the problem is their obsession with making sure their kids do not commit that ONE sin rather than raising them to be well rounded people. They are so focused on controlling their kids every move in the name of "keeping their mind and bodies pure" that their children will not be able to fully function in the outside world. I will be SHOCKED if any one of the 19 Duggar Kids is able to get a real job outside of the fundie world.

I do wonder if the media pressure will make the Duggars lighten up or only further convince them that the Devil is trying to influence their family. Sadly, I think we will see them circle the wagons and become even more insular. I see this with my own fundie family- the younger generation who have stayed in it are even more fundie than our parents and grandparents. They take a weird kind of pride in being even more fanatical than the way we were raised. It's so peculiar.

[SassyPants]

I think the problem is their obsession with making sure their kids do not commit that ONE sin rather than raising them to be well rounded people. They are so focused on controlling their kids every move in the name of "keeping their mind and bodies pure" that their children will not be able to fully function in the outside world. I will be SHOCKED if any one of the 19 Duggar Kids is able to get a real job outside of the fundie world.

I do wonder if the media pressure will make the Duggars lighten up or only further convince them that the Devil is trying to influence their family. Sadly, I think we will see them circle the wagons and become even more insular. I see this with my own fundie family- the younger generation who have stayed in it are even more fundie than our parents and grandparents. They take a weird kind of pride in being even more fanatical than the way we were raised. It's so peculiar.

And in their hyper focus on that one issue, they have totally dropped the ball on just about EVERY other issue. Well rounded, not so much-stunted and limited, absolutely.

[grandmadugger]

In my opinion, this is the danger of fundyism. There are rules to follow so you never have to make any other decision but follow the rules and there is a taskmaster-- your parents or the preacher-- making sure that you follow these rules. You never have the opportunity to choose for yourself (or if a Christian, to learn to follow the Holy Spirit's prompting); you're just blindly following a set of rules that makes you appear like a good person. Frankly, I don't care if the girls never wear a pair of pants, hold hands or kiss a boy they're not married to, or listen to secular music. I care about the fact that they never get to explore a relationship with God that is more than one of following rules to look good or to even explore if they want a relationship with God. Obviously, my concern comes from a Christian POV, but the Duggars have ruined so much of real Christianity for their children and they don't even realize it because they are checking off all the boxes of what the rules tell them they are supposed to look, act, and feel. :pull-hair:

I don't think the kids even understand that they can have a personal relationship with God. They seem to only understand confessing their sins to their parents not to God. It makes me sad for them. They may never realize that all those rules won't save their soul.

[Reverend Ladypants]

I don't think the kids even understand that they can have a personal relationship with God. They seem to only understand confessing their sins to their parents not to God. It makes me sad for them. They may never realize that all those rules won't save their soul.

Honestly I think these kids are terrified of going to Hell if they put a toe across the line, and probably lie awake at night wondering if they will go to Hell anyway. I know I did when I was in a situation (religious situation) like that.

I call this kind of indoctrination spiritual abuse, and would have a ton more to say about it if i didn't think it would be off-topic.

[nolongerIFBx]

I don't think the kids even understand that they can have a personal relationship with God. They seem to only understand confessing their sins to their parents not to God. It makes me sad for them. They may never realize that all those rules won't save their soul.

JB & M certainly aren't trusting the Holy Spirit to do His job; they're too busy doing it for Him.

[DGayle]

I thought the duggers were the ultimate helicopter parents. but they are also lawnmower parents. they mow down any obstacle in their child's path wile protecting them from the grass they need to walk on.

I envision the kids more like cattle going down a shute. They can only go through a narrow path, to a predetermined end, in their case, marriage. No chance to see on the otherwise of those metal walls, no chance to experience anything else. If you even try, you get the cattle prod, JTTH for the Duggars, and whatever the boys' equivalent is.

[DGayle]

Yeah, it's not very rational thinking. They are sooooo scared that the kids might have sex before marriage that they can't do anything that might tempt them, but after marriage it's suddenly okay. Clearly they don't trust their kids to have the self control to follow boundaries they---

I got exactly that far before I had a memory I'd forgotten about. My dad always tried to keep me from making mistakes. One day when I was 14, I turned on him and yelled at him about how I had to be allowed to make my own mistakes because I can't really learn if I don't get to experience mistakes, and I needed to do that before I grew up and moved out on my own. My dad admitted his own mistakes in being too controlling, and he loosened up, and our relationship drastically improved so much that I hardly remember what it was like before that. Too many good memories after it that bury the bad.

Like you said with Ben...who is he? How is he any kind of catch in the REAL WORLD. He has no real education. No job, no prospects and clearly has much more growing to do emotionally.

I'm not so much bothered by him not going to college, but SOTDRT, when it's shoddy at best, and doesn't really go through high school, is going to stifle him. Does he even have the chops for a trade school? Is Godliness going to pay the bills? With these people, it's cleave and leave. Even if Jim Bob has another house sitting around empty for them, there are still other bills, like food and electricity. How are those going to be paid for? The show isn't going to pay Jessa tons of money when she's about to become a fringe character to guest star now and then.

[SassyPants]

I got exactly that far before I had a memory I'd forgotten about. My dad always tried to keep me from making mistakes. One day when I was 14, I turned on him and yelled at him about how I had to be allowed to make my own mistakes because I can't really learn if I don't get to experience mistakes, and I needed to do that before I grew up and moved out on my own. My dad admitted his own mistakes in being too controlling, and he loosened up, and our relationship drastically improved so much that I hardly remember what it was like before that. Too many good memories after it that bury the bad.

I'm not so much bothered by him not going to college, but SOTDRT, when it's shoddy at best, and doesn't really go through high school, is going to stifle him. Does he even have the chops for a trade school? Is Godliness going to pay the bills? With these people, it's cleave and leave. Even if Jim Bob has another house sitting around empty for them, there are still other bills, like food and electricity. How are those going to be paid for? The show isn't going to pay Jessa tons of money when she's about to become a fringe character to guest star now and then.

And let's not forget the kids that will keep coming, so there's additional costs on top of additional costs. Not every delivery is going to go as swimmingly as Anna's 3 home births and some might even require c-sections or Nicu care, after Josie, the Duggars should have a clue in that regard.

Life and families cost money- lots of it. Where will the Seewalds get that income? TLC is not going to be around forever.

LOL at the "bloodline" comment. Was that a joke?